Sloth Posted July 14, 2005 Posted July 14, 2005 Despite what you think, sharp or unethical business practices do not reflect good business sense. In the long run, every business reaps what it sows. ******************* <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, at least in a Disney movie.
E_Motion Posted July 14, 2005 Posted July 14, 2005 I guess Obsidian is an anamoly, considering the amount of top notch employees they have working for them. By the way, when I said "Financial Investors" I was referring to the publishers like Lucasarts. And yes, they do take the company's history into account, like when they bad mouthed the previous publisher when things didn't go exactly as planned. "Well, I was going to fund your next l33t game, but since your have a reputation for slagging on your publishers, you're not worth the investment risk....enjoy being unemployed" <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The qualtity of any company's employees is reflected in the company's product. KotOR II is not a top notch product by anyone's standard. You can rationalize all you want. Obsidian will neither keep nor attract high quality personnel, or investors, based on their current business practices.
alanschu Posted July 14, 2005 Posted July 14, 2005 How many publishers would they attract if they started publicly bad-mouthing them?
E_Motion Posted July 14, 2005 Posted July 14, 2005 How many publishers would they attract if they started publicly bad-mouthing them? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's one thing to "bad mouth" an investor; quite another to volunteer that you're ready to work with an investor again, if indeed that investor caused you to release a mediocre work product, and is responsible for your failure to fix the product. **********************
E_Motion Posted July 14, 2005 Posted July 14, 2005 Again, what response would be more appropriate? "We hated working with LucasArts and we don't care what fans want. We would never want to do a KOTOR:3"? Instead of being a cynic, you're just a bitter idiot. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> One appropriate response to the question"Will there be a KotOR III", assuming that LA is responsible for the fact that KotOR II is unfinished and that its bugs remain unpatched, might be "You will have to ask LucasArts." Honestly, this isn't real complicated. ********************
EnderAndrew Posted July 14, 2005 Posted July 14, 2005 The qualtity of any company's employees is reflected in the company's product. KotOR II is not a top notch product by anyone's standard. You can rationalize all you want. Obsidian will neither keep nor attract high quality personnel, or investors, based on their current business practices. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Feargus Urquhart, Chris Parker, Darren Monahan, Chris Avellone and Chris Jones founded Obsidian. Look up their resumes some time and tell me they don't put out quality products. These guys have been in the industy a very long time, and put out some of the best games of all time. Chris Avellone was the lead designer on Planescape: Torment, which some have called the greatest PC game of all time. When they were paired up with a publisher who practically went under at a bad time, they were forced to release a product early. Lucas said LucasArts was actually in debt, and that's why they are being folded back under the arm of ILM, and their offices closed down. You may have missed when LucasArts laid all of their staff off in September.
E_Motion Posted July 14, 2005 Posted July 14, 2005 The qualtity of any company's employees is reflected in the company's product. KotOR II is not a top notch product by anyone's standard. You can rationalize all you want. Obsidian will neither keep nor attract high quality personnel, or investors, based on their current business practices. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Feargus Urquhart, Chris Parker, Darren Monahan, Chris Avellone and Chris Jones founded Obsidian. Look up their resumes some time and tell me they don't put out quality products. These guys have been in the industy a very long time, and put out some of the best games of all time. Chris Avellone was the lead designer on Planescape: Torment, which some have called the greatest PC game of all time. When they were paired up with a publisher who practically went under at a bad time, they were forced to release a product early. Lucas said LucasArts was actually in debt, and that's why they are being folded back under the arm of ILM, and their offices closed down. You may have missed when LucasArts laid all of their staff off in September. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The Obsidian founders were members of teams that released good products. Sadly, Obsidian's current product is not one of the "best games of all time"; just maybe some of the other members of the teams that produced those prior games had something to do with the quality of the games. I read about the September layoffs by LA but saw nothing that indicated the layoffs represented "all of their staff" or that LA "practically went under".
alanschu Posted July 14, 2005 Posted July 14, 2005 Production houses don't close down all their in house development when times are good.
E_Motion Posted July 14, 2005 Posted July 14, 2005 Production houses don't close down all their in house development when times are good. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I saw no reports that even suggested LA closed down "all... of their in house development".
alanschu Posted July 14, 2005 Posted July 14, 2005 I'm pretty sure it's all outsourcing now. I'll look into it further. EDIT: I think their last in house game was Republic Commando. Pandemic did Battlefront and is doing Battlefront II. They also did Mercenaries. Empire at War is Petroglyph. Galaxies is done by Sony Online Entertainment (and is a struggling MMO) They currently only have three games in development.....all of them by a third party.
EnderAndrew Posted July 14, 2005 Posted July 14, 2005 They did. They actually closed their office completely, and are not set up in a new office. But let me find an article for you. Industry sources are reporting that LucasArts have cancelled all internal projects but one, and layed off up to 50 staff. Apparently LucasArts have declined to comment. http://bigkid.com.au/2004/08/13/lucasarts-layoffs/
E_Motion Posted July 14, 2005 Posted July 14, 2005 Look, to all of you that want to defend Obsidian, I respect your loyalty and your hopes for a future great game. But the fact of the matter is 'great is as great does', and at this point Obsidian hasn't earned your valuable loyalty. I hope that Obsidian's future products and business practices prove to be worthy of your trust.
EnderAndrew Posted July 14, 2005 Posted July 14, 2005 I've seen far buggier products released, and the companies backed. You specifically knocked MCA for his statements in that interview. What should he have said differently? I think you have no understanding of the industry, and if you logic is that we judge people solely by released products, then you need to just MCA by his released products. And his resume is pretty impressive.
E_Motion Posted July 14, 2005 Posted July 14, 2005 I've seen far buggier products released, and the companies backed. You specifically knocked MCA for his statements in that interview. What should he have said differently? I think you have no understanding of the industry, and if you logic is that we judge people solely by released products, then you need to just MCA by his released products. And his resume is pretty impressive. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Here's a more detailed report of LA's restructuring as a result of new management: http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/08/13/news_6104775.html I answered your question about an appropriate response above: "One appropriate response to the question 'Will there be a KotOR III', assuming that LA is responsible for the fact that KotOR II is unfinished and that its bugs remain unpatched, might be 'You will have to ask LucasArts.'" "My logic" that we judge people by the products they produce isn't my logic; its just the way things are. The products you refrence were produced by teams and management different than Obsidian's teams and management. I hope that Obsidian equals or exceeds the previous games of its founders; but if that happens it will be because Obsidian decides to settle for nothing less than the best they are capable of. Either that hasn't happened yet, or the founders aren't as talented as you believe.
SteveThaiBinh Posted July 14, 2005 Posted July 14, 2005 I think it's reasonable to be hopeful about Obsidian's games, based on the very real strengths of its first game, Kotor 2, and other games that Obsidian employees have worked on. It's certainly reasonable to reserve judgement until you have more than one game by which to judge the company. We'll see when NWN2 is released. "An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov)
E_Motion Posted July 14, 2005 Posted July 14, 2005 I think it's reasonable to be hopeful about Obsidian's games, based on the very real strengths of its first game, Kotor 2, and other games that Obsidian employees have worked on. It's certainly reasonable to reserve judgement until you have more than one game by which to judge the company. We'll see when NWN2 is released. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree with everything you said. But your hopes for the future will never be realized if Obsidian ignores the problems of the present. I do honestly hope that Obsidian's future products prove worthy of your and many other people's trust.
alanschu Posted July 14, 2005 Posted July 14, 2005 It is always possible, that because of their financial status, they had to sort of pull the plug on KOTOR 2. And were very apologetic to Obsidian that they could not fund the game anymore, and Obsidian said they could quickly wrap things up to still get some sort of a finished product (or some sort of discussion anyways), and that's why the product made the cut. It was sufficiently done to not get the axe, but it needed to be put out quickly since the money just wasn't there to fund the project. So in the end, Obsidian and Lucasarts still get along fine, and it's just a reflection of unfortunate circumstances. Hence, MCA has no problems wanting to work with Lucasarts on KOTOR 3 (or whatever), since he knows they're still good people....and he realizes that they're not going to be working together until Lucasarts has some $$$$ to fund the project. What does everyone else think? :D
SteveThaiBinh Posted July 14, 2005 Posted July 14, 2005 What does everyone else think? :D <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's possible. We'll probably have to wait for Chris Avellone's autobiography before we know the truth. "An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov)
alanschu Posted July 14, 2005 Posted July 14, 2005 I have a feeling that MCA's autobiography would be huge embelishments and farfetched....yet highly entertaining. He just seems like that type of guy :D
EnderAndrew Posted July 14, 2005 Posted July 14, 2005 Given his interview with Odin, I wouldn't be surprised.
Guest MacleodCorp Posted July 14, 2005 Posted July 14, 2005 Industry sources are reporting that LucasArts have cancelled all internal projects but one, and layed off up to 50 staff. Apparently LucasArts have declined to comment. http://bigkid.com.au/2004/08/13/lucasarts-layoffs/ <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I've seen far buggier products released, and the companies backed. I think you have no understanding of the industry, and if you logic is that we judge people solely by released products, then you need to just MCA by his released products. And his resume is pretty impressive. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Here's a more detailed report of LA's restructuring as a result of new management: http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/08/13/news_6104775.html <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This articles is dated August 2004: http://bigkid.com.au/2004/08/13/lucasarts-layoffs/ This article is dated July 14, 2005: http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/08/13/news_6104775.html If you read the July 14, 2005 article, it would appear they are restructuring, and that means it will take time to get settled. Usually it takes six months for a department to settle, have palimanary meetings, and so forth. Otherwords, there will not be a KotOR II patch in the near future. There is a slim chance that they will release a KotOR II patch. Quote from article: On the project front, an informed industry source said the team attached to the early stages of development on Knights of the Old Republic 3 was let go in yesterday's layoff They don't have the man power to pull it off, and they have moved onto other things. Like I said in a previous post, the patch is not going to be released. It is a loss cause...
Musopticon? Posted July 14, 2005 Posted July 14, 2005 That's it then? kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds
E_Motion Posted July 14, 2005 Posted July 14, 2005 Industry sources are reporting that LucasArts have cancelled all internal projects but one, and layed off up to 50 staff. Apparently LucasArts have declined to comment. http://bigkid.com.au/2004/08/13/lucasarts-layoffs/ <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I've seen far buggier products released, and the companies backed. I think you have no understanding of the industry, and if you logic is that we judge people solely by released products, then you need to just MCA by his released products. And his resume is pretty impressive. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Here's a more detailed report of LA's restructuring as a result of new management: http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/08/13/news_6104775.html <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This articles is dated August 2004: http://bigkid.com.au/2004/08/13/lucasarts-layoffs/ This article is dated July 14, 2005: http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/08/13/news_6104775.html If you read the July 14, 2005 article, it would appear they are restructuring, and that means it will take time to get settled. Usually it takes six months for a department to settle, have palimanary meetings, and so forth. Otherwords, there will not be a KotOR II patch in the near future. There is a slim chance that they will release a KotOR II patch. Quote from article: On the project front, an informed industry source said the team attached to the early stages of development on Knights of the Old Republic 3 was let go in yesterday's layoff They don't have the man power to pull it off, and they have moved onto other things. Like I said in a previous post, the patch is not going to be released. It is a loss cause... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just to clarify, the GameSpot article is dated August 2004 (see the end of the article; "By Curt Feldman -- GameSpot POSTED: 08/13/04 12:25 PM PST")
Guest MacleodCorp Posted July 14, 2005 Posted July 14, 2005 You know what, I was reading the date at the upper right! Ooops!!! Well, my statement still stand though, but not the date thing! Those articles are old news, and they have passed. Oops... My apologies on the missreading of the date! I thought it was weird, for I decided to follow the rabit back to the site. When I got there, I didn't find the article mentioned.. Now I know why! "
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