Does anyone else share my dislike of d20?

[Laozi]

That wizard who casts that 10d6 fireball at his 10th level fighter friend, who happens to have a 14 Con, would easily kill his friend if a more realistic Massive Damage threshold is used.

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Realistic?

[6 Foot Invisible Rabbit]

Yep.

 

Normal MDT is 50 in DnD. Dropping it to be equal to the character's Constitution score would mean the wizard has a good chance of taking out his warrior friend with the 14 Con with the fireball.

 

How many hit points you have is irrelevant if you fail your Fortitude Save against massive damage. If you fail it you are immediately at -1 hit points and dying or dead all together.

[Jediphile]

Yep.

 

Normal MDT is 50 in DnD.  Dropping it to be equal to the character's Constitution score would mean the wizard has a good chance of taking out his warrior friend with the 14 Con with the fireball.

 

How many hit points you have is irrelevant if you fail your Fortitude Save against massive damage.  If you fail it you are immediately at -1 hit points and dying or dead all together.

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Actually, a warrior has a d10 for each level, always the maximum 10 at level 1, and gets to add his con bonus every time. That's 10+bonus + d10+bonus/level. The wizard's fireball does only d6/level, so chances are he will never reach the warrior's hit points, even if the warrior missed his save. And since fireballs cap at 10d6 while characters never stop accumulating hp, the chances of dying are even smaller beyond level 10.

[Darque]

GURPS is a entry level game.

 

As for Shadowrun, once you get the concepts down it's a snap to play

[Jediphile]

As for Shadowrun, once you get the concepts down it's a snap to play

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I played many sessions of Shadowrun and yet I never got around to feeling that way...

[Darque]

How strange.

[EnderAndrew]

I played Shadowrun for 2 years and I say the system is unnecessarily cumbersome. The damage system is really stupid.

 

And for the record, I'm not saying that I like hit points so long as they are not used in a level-based system. I said L5R is the exception, where it is the only system with hit points I like.

[Darque]

You keep repeating that

 

you should make it your sig

[alanschu]

Those are good stories!

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Blast it Ender!

 

It seems

Darque

is better than we anticipated.

She

didn't take the bait!

[EnderAndrew]

I told you, you should told her that Feargus lined up the rights to both Shadowrun and 7th Sea and she needed to come into the topic to pick one.

[alanschu]

I'll see what I can do :ph34r:

 

 

 

 

DONE!

seriously

 

 

 

:alanschu:

 

 

 

EDIT: Blast! Foiled again!

[Lancer]

The problem lies in the multi/dual class systems, which are completely different in 2e and 3e, and in the way monster-races are fit into the rules in each incarnation. In 2e, a 1st level warrior is a 1st level character, no matter which race he belongs to, while in 3e, the race, if powerful, is considered to be worth a number of experience levels. I checked this, and IIRC a minotaur is considered to be an 8th-level character as a base, so a 3rd-level minotaur fighter would be considered 11th-level (8+3) and have to earn xp according to that. This means that I cannot fairly convert a 16th-level 2e minotaur fighter (who would drop eight levels to be a mere 8th level fighter) or a 12/12-level 2e dwarven fighter/cleric, since his classes would add up to 24 levels, which is far too much in 3e.

 

Well.. I don

[Lancer]

Lastly, there

[Jediphile]

Well.. I don

[Jediphile]

Lastly, there

[EnderAndrew]

Honestly I really like the World of Darkness and their 9 attributes. They work rather well.

[Jediphile]

Honestly I really like the World of Darkness and their 9 attributes.  They work rather well.

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Yes, I'd agree there, which is one reason why I went for even more attributes in my own system instead of fewer. That said, I didn't like all the WoD stats. Do you really need a separate attribute for manipulation? I think that should rely on both high charisma and high intellect as well as high values in certain skills (persuasion?).

 

GURPS works fine, but it only has four attributes, which is a tad low IMHO.

 

D&D has six, but their use don't exactly make much sense. Why Strength affects to-hit probability is something I'll never understand, unless it is purely for purposes of balance - it makes no sense, and the only stat that would is Dexterity. However, if you let Dex affect to-hit in D&D (just as it does for ranged attacks), then Dex will affect both to-hit, initiative rolls, surprise rolls, and even AC, and that's just a bit too useful for just one stat. I guess that's why they put the melee to-hit modifier on Strength instead, even though it makes no sense at all. I would have just split Dexterity instead.

 

In my own system I thought about having both Dexterity (which was straight agility and ability to dodge), Reaction (which was a mental and not physical stat), and Precision (straight hand-eye coordination).

[EnderAndrew]

WoD has Wits, which acts as a mental Reaction attribute.

 

In my homebrew system I will likely never release, I wrote a game around faith and belief called Mythos.

 

There are three mental attributes, three physical attributes, and three spirtual attributes. The three attributes are always strength, dexterity and constitution effectively, but mental dexterity might be called wits, and mental constituion might be called willpower, etc.

 

Your mental attributes form a mental pool, so on and so forth. Your mental pool represents sanity/mental control. Physical pool represents health, and spirtual pool represents Chi/Faith.

[Jediphile]

WoD has Wits, which acts as a mental Reaction attribute.

 

In my homebrew system I will likely never release, I wrote a game around faith and belief called Mythos.

 

There are three mental attributes, three physical attributes, and three spirtual attributes.  The three attributes are always strength, dexterity and constitution effectively, but mental dexterity might be called wits, and mental constituion might be called willpower, etc.

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WoD also has three divisions among the traits, though they are physical, mental and social.

 

In the system I was planning I just had two devisions - physical and mental. Somehow it served better to demonstrate the duality of life (as in mind and matter). I had six in each group and they were corresponding to each other, at least to some degree. For example, while Stregth was physical power, Intellect was mental power, while Health was physical stability and Willpower mental stability. Didn't work as a mirror all the way though, but it was pretty close.

 

 

Your mental attributes form a mental pool, so on and so forth.  Your mental pool represents sanity/mental control.  Physical pool represents health, and spirtual pool represents Chi/Faith.

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What are spiritual attributes and what do they do, though?

[Grizz]

I don't like d20 either. I love using GURPs and for the most part in the games that I've written for my private use I use my own system.

[Jediphile]

I don't like d20 either.  I love using GURPs and for the most part in the games that I've written for my private use I use my own system.

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Funny, seems we all like this "my own" system best

 

400+ replies and counting and 28 pages

 

This topic has become rather larger than I thought when it began - the PnP forum tends to be one of the quieter forums here, so I guess it's safe to say that people have issues with d20...

 

And I should probably change my name here to Frankenstein, since I've created a monster! - "It's alive - IT'S ALIVE!!"

[Grizz]

Why play by someone else's rules. Even in the games where I have played d20, the group usually ends up making minor tweaks. It seems to be like that for most game systems.

[Magena]

There are always house rule no matter what game you are playing, including board games.

 

Having a system like a D20 system can make it easier for people who are moving around and not just playing with the same people for the next 50 years.

 

I don't mind the d20 system, but then part of that might be because when I started playing pnp, we did more role playing than roll playing. I've noticed that those who tend to rely on the dice to tell them what to do and when tend to get bogged down with taking turns so that everyone can get their rolls in.

 

One reason that I dislike games where you have turns (ie Fallout, though I think you can turn it off) is that I know that I know when I pull out my gun and pull the trigger that I'm going to unload the clip into whatever I'm shooting at. I don't need to stop between bullets to think about what I'm going to do next. - the downside is that if I'm not watching my health... well, then I get to redo areas.

 

I will admit that I prefer first ed DnD over 3rd, but much of that is that I felt I had more latitude in what I could do with my character in the first and even second edition, though some things did limit me.

[Lancer]

There are always house rule no matter what game you are playing, including board games.

 

Amen.. Finally someone that is talking some sense!

 

I will admit that I prefer first ed DnD over 3rd, but much of that is that I felt I had more latitude in what I could do with my character in the first and even second edition, though some things did limit me.

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Give this person a beer and a pat on the back!

 

*** LANCER INFLUENCE: INCREASED!****

[Lancer]

Why play by someone else's rules.  Even in the games where I have played d20, the group usually ends up making minor tweaks.  It seems to be like that for most game systems.

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It definitely *is* like that for all systems!

 

Man.. Where did you two (Grizz and Magena) with the brilliant statements come from?

 

Thanks for breathing some sanity into this conversation.