Does anyone else share my dislike of d20?

[Jediphile]

I get the impression that our CoC games are VERY different from yours.

When we play it's more of a mystery and horror because you know something is terribly wrong but you can't see it type of theme. So combat in all forms is next to nonexistant, an when it does occur its only against cultists or other human oponents and "never" agains any mythos creature (never as in yes it has happened once or twise but extreemly rarely).

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These kinds of things usually happen in campaigns, like "Masks of Nylarlathotep" or "Shadows of Yog'Sothoth" and other such where after repeated casualities and narrow escapes, eventually the players get something of a clue of what they're up against. That's when the clamoring usually starts for heavy weaponry (which is usually denied).

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Precisely. We all began by setting up our characters to whatever we wanted. A good GM (Keeper in CoC) will always take that into account and run mystery scenarios early on, when your characters are still just trying to piece the horrible truth of the mythos together. But as the game progresses, the characters will begin to discover things and slowly unearth the mysteries of the mythos (the PCs are called 'investigators' rather than 'adventurers' in CoC for a good reason). As that happens, the opposition will incrase, because their investigations will not have gone completely unnoticed by the cultists of the mythos, who will sent assassins to kill them, try to frame them for whatever, or spring unspeakble monsters against them. As the game progresses, this will polarize the players, because with each confrontation, they will find their skills lacking, both in ability to physically stand against the opposition and in knowledge of their secrets (including magic). Once you get to that point, players ususally begin focusing their skills in one of those two directions - combat (which means marksmanship, weapons-ability, and physical resistance) or lore (mythos, library use, magic, etc.).

[Gabrielle]

Never tried D20. I'm stuck with the good old AD&D system. And no I won't play 3rd ed either.

[Lancer]

Never tried D20. I'm stuck with the good old AD&D system. And no I won't play 3rd ed either.

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You *GO* Girl!!!I like you!!!! :D (w00t)

 

AD&D rulz.

[Guest GroinOfDespair]

I've only played Dark Ages Fae, Vamp and Call of Cthulu.

 

I've been told I might like Paranoia.

[alanschu]

Even if I wasn't against class-based, level-based systems, I still don't care for hit points, experience being tied directly to combat, the lack of class balance, the ability to twink, the abundance of kits, etc. etc.

 

I have many qualms with D&D.

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I never really did like that.

 

It encourages and reinforces fighting above almost everything else. Or metagaming where you sneak around and get mad xp for sneaking, and then go back and kill everyone anyways since there's more xp to be had.

[Guest GroinOfDespair]

We fantasize about societies filled with clearly labeled monsters where we can kill with reckless abandon because we exist as castrated men with no desire to actually rebel against the true monsters of modern day society.

[EnderAndrew]

No nerds just like shooting magic missle into the darkness.

 

[alanschu]

"I'm attacking the darkness!"

 

 

 

Although I've said it before and I'll say it again:

 

 

"Gooooooooooooo skill-based approach"

[EnderAndrew]

You're my favorite cheerleader.

[alanschu]

Hehehe.

 

I guess I'm just a Fallout fanboi :">

[EnderAndrew]

That's because Fallout (and SPECIAL) rock.

[alanschu]

SPECIAL is what drew me into the Lionheart Demo.

 

 

And while I didn't mind the demo, I found it too combat-oriented. I was considering getting it, but then I heard that after Barcelona, I should be prepared to do lots of fighting.

 

 

I consider it a poor design choice when the character creation screen strongly recommends a combat skill. I mean, I'd probably pick one anyways, but it certainly gives you an idea of what the game will be like.

[EnderAndrew]

I probably would have been better off just playing the demo.

[Cantousent]

It wasn't the combat that sucked. It was that you fought like hell against hordes of exciting enemies such as "English Soldier" and friends. I mean, it's bad enough that you had to slog through Western Europe, but if I'm getting my backside beat, I'd rather fall to a nobler enemy than "English Archer."

[alanschu]

Hehe, I never reached that point.

 

I got a "The Demo is over, please buy the game" screen first

[EnderAndrew]

You're supposed to buy games?

[alanschu]

:ph34r: (:alanschu:)...oh wait, I'm doh!

 

 

And yes, you buy the good ones

[Jediphile]

Hehehe.

 

I guess I'm just a Fallout fanboi :">

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Well, Fallout had experience levels too, and you got new 'perks' exactly every third level... Sounds a lot like 3e to, except with slight expanded skill rules (and none of that max. skill level tied to experience level crap) and no fixed class (since you only made one character). Also, we did get monster-slashing xp in Fallout. I know I've hunted radioactive deserts of dry of mutated monsters looking for xp... "

 

For CRPGs my standards are lower, since it's so rare to find one that's just worth playing at all, and Fallout 1 and 2 were among the best. I mean, I play KotOR even though it has d20 written all over it and suffers from it, so...

 

I wouldn't play a KotOR tabletop RPG, though - there are simply too many other good RPGs out there for it to even compete for my interest.

[EnderAndrew]

SPECIAL isn't perfect, but I'll take it over D&D.

[alanschu]

Did Fallout/SPECIAL come before 3rd Edition?

 

Who borrowed 3rd level feats from who?

 

And besides, you could make it 4 levels with Skilled Trait

[EnderAndrew]

3rd Edition came after SPECIAL I'm willing to bet.

[Jediphile]

Did Fallout/SPECIAL come before 3rd Edition?

 

Who borrowed 3rd level feats from who?

 

And besides, you could make it 4 levels with Skilled Trait

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Fallout was there ages before anyone ever heard of 3e. I played through Fallout 2 when 3e was announced and discussed, though, so when I saw some of the ideas, I thought, "Hmm, doesn't this look a bit familar?"

 

I suppose this means d20 modern looks rather a lot like Fallout, though I don't know - I've never seen d20 modern and I plan to keep it that way. I just heard they cut down on the fixed class-thing.

[Lancer]

Bah! d20 modern is nothing like SPECIAL. There are no cross-class skills, classes, or silly Attacks of Opportunity in SPECIAL. SPECIAL, as a whole, was a system designed with roleplaying and combat in mind whereas d20's emphasis is (and has always been more than any edition of AD&D) mainly on combat (not including DM modifications).

 

There are also no AP or "hit location" rules with d20 modern and a lot of d20 modern's feats and skills can't be translated to SPECIAL's perks and skills without heavy modification.

[Darque]

I thought SPECIAL came out lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng before d20 was invented.

 

Didn't fallout come out before WotC even became a company?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I thought SPECIAL came out lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng before d20 was invented.

 

Didn't fallout come out before WotC even became a company?

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TSR was still at the helm.