Happy Birthday USA

[alanschu]

I would suspect a large amount of bitterness comes from a "jealousy" of sorts.

[Nur Ab Sal]

Hmm if marines came to my town raped all women and instal puppet government, my hatred surely would be based on envy :cool:

 

And don't forget that thousands of latin workers died due to ruthless exploitation and hopeless condition during panama canal builiding. That's some job

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Entire world, especially third world poor nations, view USA as an opressor that exploits them. It's just a fact. USA is hated by billions of africans, asians and muslims. They don't care about outspoken "democratic ideals" that are so important for never hungry westerners. Besides why casual muslim should care about democracy if it never wasn't element of his civilization? He sees democracy as a propaganda, and steel fleets of us carriers that threatens the world stability, as a brutal reality. After Iraq War, rather European Union is seen as "third world friendly" and democracy bearer than USA, becouse we already spend more on relief programs than stupid americans and we aren't bullying anyone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats because their leaders use the US as a scapegoat to mask the fact they either want these people dead to make some more room or to cover up that that corrupt and siphoning off aid money into the army and the people are too stupid to realise they are being played for suckers.

[alanschu]

Hmm if marines came to my town raped all women and instal puppet government, my hatred surely would be based on envy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I think you're confusing things with the Rwanda incident...although I guess they didn't install a puppet government.

[Nur Ab Sal]

Thats because their leaders use the US as a scapegoat to mask the fact they either want these people dead to make some more room or to cover up that that corrupt and siphoning off aid money into the army and the people are too stupid to realise they are being played for suckers

 

Their leaders are mostly us puppets and what you're saying is primitive racism.

 

I think you're confusing things with the Rwanda incident...although I guess they didn't install a puppet government

 

No I'm saying about regular marine epeditions to Latin America to punish "dirty bastards" for their rebeliousness toward US masters. These expeditions began early in 19th century together with indian genocide.

[alanschu]

Primitive Racism???

[EnderAndrew]

Hmm if marines came to my town raped all women and instal puppet government, my hatred surely would be based on envy :cool:

 

And don't forget that thousands of latin workers died due to ruthless exploitation and hopeless condition during panama canal builiding. That's some job

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As a former US Marine, I can assure you that most Marines I've met have a MUCH HIGHER moral standard than your average citizen. Marines don't randomly go around raping people.

 

However, given the millions of people who have passed through the core over the years, we do get bad apples.

 

The only story since Viet Nam where a Marine was found guilty of raping someone in a foreign country was in Japan a few years back.

 

People love to talk about the "puppet" governments we create. If we have all these "puppet" governments, then why aren't these governments giving us their money? Why do these governments have anti-US policies?

 

Last time I checked, in the 80's Saddam was seen as a US puppet. That surely proved to be the case. We don't have puppets. We don't control other countries.

 

We have partaken in some regime changes that maybe we shouldn't have. However, in most cases there was a preexisting civil conflict where a leader was being ousted by the people of a nation and we merely assisted to keep casualties down.

 

God forbid we attempt to protect foreign lives with our own.

[Darth Flatus]

English is not Nur Ab Sal's first language. You will have to excuse his novel use of grammar.

[alanschu]

From what I have read, I think removing Salvador Allende was bad.

 

 

Maybe I'm just naive, but he seemed to care about his country, and he even did it democratically.

[SteveThaiBinh]

Entire world, especially third world poor nations, view USA as an opressor that exploits them. It's just a fact. USA is hated by billions of africans, asians and muslims. They don't care about outspoken "democratic ideals" that are so important for never hungry westerners. Besides why casual muslim should care about democracy if it never wasn't element of his civilization? He sees democracy as a propaganda, and steel fleets of us carriers that threatens the world stability, as a brutal reality. After Iraq War, rather European Union is seen as "third world friendly" and democracy bearer than USA, becouse we already spend more on relief programs than stupid americans and we aren't bullying anyone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not the entire world. As EnderWiggin points out, there are many people across the world who try to go to the US to live and work. There are many people who see the US both as the beacon of freedom and the imperialist oppressor - they recognise the complex reality that is the modern USA.

 

People in the developing world care more about democracy than you think. It's true that few envy the US its big-money party politics, but democracy takes many forms. The Turks don't see democracy as alien to Islam, and neither do the Iraqis who braved bomb threats and gunfire to vote in their recent elections.

 

You'd be surprised at how much bullying is done by European nations - how much aid is tied to the purchase of useless European products or even arms. If we have a better record than the US, well, that's not saying much. The Scandinavians have the best record across the world for honest and productive aid, but the British and French in particular have a long way to go to clear up our acts.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Their leaders are mostly us puppets and what you're saying is primitive racism.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

As long as it's true I can live with it :D

 

It's in the corrupt regimes best interests to keep people stupid. It's also in the regimes best interest to create a boogeyman figure on which they can blame all the ills of the world. For Germany it was the Jews. For America the "Reds under the bed" and for the corrupt regimes of Africa and the Middle East its the USA.

 

The biggest threat to religion is education and freedom and when you control your people through religion thats the last thing you want in your back yard.

[Nur Ab Sal]

From what I have read, I think removing Salvador Allende was bad.

 

 

Maybe I'm just naive, but he seemed to care about his country, and he even did it democratically.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well he wasn't licking american ass and he was a socialist so he was killed. Simple.

[EnderAndrew]

The biggest threat to religion is education and freedom and when you control your people through religion thats the last thing you want in your back yard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sadly, for the most part you are right. Though that's partially why I respect Jews so much as they encourage the study of science. They are scholars who don't try to convert the world to make money. They discourage converts. They are only interested in intelligent people who truly believe in Judaism.

[alanschu]

On the topic of aid, I was pleasantly surprised when Canada dropped the debt for the 10 poorest countries.

 

 

U2 even rewarded us by releasing Walk On in Canada first

[alanschu]

Heh, I *should* go to bed, but the few discussions I'm having are too interesting.

[EnderAndrew]

I'm glad to see this discussion is remaining primarily civil.

[Nur Ab Sal]

Sadly, for the most part you are right.  Though that's partially why I respect Jews so much as they encourage the study of science.  They are scholars who don't try to convert the world to make money.  They discourage converts.  They are only interested in intelligent people who truly believe in Judaism.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why not tell truth and say, that jews are hidden racists who hate "impure goims"?

I suggest you read books of Israel Shahak who is a leftist critic of jewish religious

obscurity and decribes internal jewish xenophobia so present in their entire history and especially today, in sweet Israel.

[EnderAndrew]

There are leftist fundamentists in every religion. Bin Laden represents a Muslim leftist who is full of hated. Fred Phelps represents a leftist Christian who is full of hatred.

 

I dated a Jew for 18 months. Her father was a Rabbi who oddly enough eventually accepted Jesus and became shunned by his old crowd. He became a Messianic Jew.

 

If you assume all Jews are racist, that would make you a racist yourself. The teachings of Judaism are of acceptance. Genesis mentions that if you have a fight with your brother (and all people are your brother) then you must resolve this conflict before you can come before God.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Why not tell truth and say, that jews are hidden racists who hate "impure goims"?

I suggest you read books of Israel Shahak who is a leftist critic of jewish religious

obscurity and decribes internal jewish xenophobia so present in their entire history and especially today, in sweet Israel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If you lived in a country that was attacked by pretty much everyone around it shortly after it was created and alongside people who wanted you wiped off the map I bet you would be xenophobic too. People have always persecuted Jews in some form so some sort of xenophobia is perfectly understandable. Even "friends" have turned on them or turned a blind eye when it let them off paying their debts.

[EnderAndrew]

If you lived in a country that was attacked by pretty much everyone around it shortly after it was created and alongside people who wanted you wiped off the map I bet you would be xenophobic too. People have always persecuted Jews in some form so some sort of xenophobia is perfectly understandable. Even "friends" have turned on them or turned a blind eye when it let them off paying their debts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. It gets me how much anti-semitism I see in Europe, and I've never understood why. I understand the hatred on both sides of the Palestinean/Isreali conflict, but why do Europeans hate Jews so much?

 

Is it possible remenants from Jews being rich and controlling banks? Possibly.

 

Either way, the hatred of any race isn't cool in my book.

[Nur Ab Sal]

Well if I'm right Jews came to Palestine and kicked out all non-jews that have a misfortune to live there.

 

But I must agree, that not all Jews are racist biggots. Only some 50% of the israeli society. Howewer presenting Jews as a shining example is a suckage after what they did to Arabs.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Well if I'm right Jews came to Palestine and kicked out all non-jews that have a misfortune to live there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Your not. But anyway since all the arab nations got together and tried to destroy the country and got their butts whupped Isreal earned its right to exist on the battlefield in my book just like many other countries.

[EnderAndrew]

Well, considering I have friends in Isreal, and I know tons of Jews and I've never met a racist Jew in my life, I think 50% is a stretch.

 

And no, the Jews didn't kick anyone out of Isreal. After the Jews were kicked out of Isreal and made slaves, they were dragged into Europe where genocide was practiced on them, and their homes were removed. After the Jews had all their homes and wealth stripped away, the UN had to find a new home for them, and the United Nations decreed Isreal would have to be shared by Palestine and the Jews.

 

Since then, terrorists kill Isreali civilians almost every single day, for 30 years and no one in the world seems to care due to anti-semitism.

[SteveThaiBinh]

It gets me how much anti-semitism I see in Europe, and I've never understood why.  I understand the hatred on both sides of the Palestinean/Isreali conflict, but why do Europeans hate Jews so much?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The US has its fair share of anti-semites and neo-nazis. I saw American History X.

 

When you say you see a lot of antisemitism in Europe, is that through contact with European friends, travelling through Europe, or do you get your information from the US media? How reliable is your source?

 

There is anti-semitism in Europe, but very often US observers lump together anti-semites with those of us who are merely opposed to Israeli policy towards the Palestinians. It is not anti-semitic to criticise Israel for its policies. That said, there has been a real increase in anti-semitics attacks and vandalism of Jewish cemetaries in recent years. It's a problem that we have to do more to deal with. I hope the US is doing as much to deal with its own anti-Islamic prejudices.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

But I must agree, that not all Jews are racist biggots. Only some 50% of the israeli society. Howewer presenting Jews as a shining example is a suckage after what they did to Arabs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The Jews only went where the UN told them to go (If I recall Britain owned the land prior to that). The Arabs attacked them. The Isrealis won and the other Arab nations took their balls and went home leaving the Palastinians to their fate, so yay Arabs.