Dark Moth Posted July 2, 2005 Posted July 2, 2005 Advisement: enough with the insults. Lay off the arguments before this thread is locked. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> no please? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hehe... I sounded like a moderator in that post. Sorry, but I'm just scared that the green dragon will lock this thread if we keep swapping insults. Although that seems unlikely, because this is the main K3 thread and Fionavar hasn't been seen for a while... :ph34r: I seriously wouldn't mind a D&D thing where you could choose different races for your character. Human's aren't the only force-sensitives. And each race, like each class, could have its own attributes, strengths, and weaknesses. (w00t) The only problem with that might be that it would make the game too complex, but hey. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think one of the problems with allowing a non-human PC is that you'd pretty much have to scrap any romance options. It's much easier, not to mention makes more sense in the story, for the male and female NPCs to have a romance with a human PC rather than have to write for, for example from KOTOR 1, Bastila having some kind of flirty romance with a Rodian PC male. I know Gluupor was hot and all, but come on now. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's a good point, but even such a hurdle as that may be overcome with good planning. Just have the "love interest" coincidentally the same race, if necessary. By this I mean if there is a peerceived problem with inter-racial romance, then it can be written around, too. I have no objections to inter-species romance; not all romance has too be consumated in some sort of mucus exchange, after all. " <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I hadn't thought of that, but you're right about the inter-racial romances. Although I wouldn't have minded it if the PC could romance Yuthura Ban from K1.
SteveThaiBinh Posted July 2, 2005 Posted July 2, 2005 I don't see any reason why you can't have an interspecies romance. It makes the game a little more complex to design, but I think there are enough players who get satisfaction from romancing their characters to justify it. I've heard it said that when it's crunch time, romance is the first thing to go in a game - I think it's time developers reconsider that. "An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov)
XboxSithLord Posted July 2, 2005 Posted July 2, 2005 I have no objections to inter-species romance; not all romance has too be consumated in some sort of mucus exchange, after all. " <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You're just saying that because you thought Mission was hot. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> she sure was. I wanted to teach that under aged alien how us humans roll.
XboxSithLord Posted July 2, 2005 Posted July 2, 2005 I don't see any reason why you can't have an interspecies romance. It makes the game a little more complex to design, but I think there are enough players who get satisfaction from romancing their characters to justify it. I've heard it said that when it's crunch time, romance is the first thing to go in a game - I think it's time developers reconsider that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> agree!
XboxSithLord Posted July 2, 2005 Posted July 2, 2005 Advisement: enough with the insults. Lay off the arguments before this thread is locked. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> no please? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hehe... I sounded like a moderator in that post. Sorry, but I'm just scared that the green dragon will lock this thread if we keep swapping insults. Although that seems unlikely, because this is the main K3 thread and Fionavar hasn't been seen for a while... :ph34r: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> yea. I told him if he deleted one more of posts something was gonna happen... ............................................ "
Jediphile Posted July 2, 2005 Posted July 2, 2005 As for Jediphile, I refuse to continue a blow-by-blow flame war, not because you have superior arguments () but because you are not abiding by the laws of argument logic. It is pointless in the extreme. I have better things to do. I never attacked you, I pointed out an uncomfortable truth to you; your argument, as stated by you, was that graphics were more important that anything else Visit my KotOR blog at Deadly Forums.
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted July 2, 2005 Posted July 2, 2005 I don't see any reason why you can't have an interspecies romance. It makes the game a little more complex to design, but I think there are enough players who get satisfaction from romancing their characters to justify it. I've heard it said that when it's crunch time, romance is the first thing to go in a game - I think it's time developers reconsider that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually I think thats pretty smart thinking. Romances are pretty low down on my personal priority scale for lots of reasons. The biggest one is they dont appear to have any real effect whatsoever. It's simply a case of going through the usual multichoice stuff till you either screw up (with no way to makeup) or you get to the "climax". After which everything carries on like it never happened. Any quality in the romance is a perception on the part of the player. I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback]
SteveThaiBinh Posted July 2, 2005 Posted July 2, 2005 And yet the fact that your character is able to have serious relationships - I include friendships as well as romances - is important for developing the character. Role-playing is all about choices, and while stats and class/profession will continue to be important, there are other aspects of these games which need to be developed. My impression - and it is only an impression, of course, - is that lack of romances is the third most-regretted aspect of Kotor 2 (after the cut ending and the bugs). That's still pretty high up on the list. Romances and relationships are more than just another optional sidequest. "An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov)
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted July 2, 2005 Posted July 2, 2005 And yet the fact that your character is able to have serious relationships - I include friendships as well as romances - is important for developing the character. Role-playing is all about choices, and while stats and class/profession will continue to be important, there are other aspects of these games which need to be developed. My impression - and it is only an impression, of course, - is that lack of romances is the third most-regretted aspect of Kotor 2 (after the cut ending and the bugs). That's still pretty high up on the list. Romances and relationships are more than just another optional sidequest. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Except it isnt really a choice. You can only romance who the designers let you. Thats one of the largest weakneses in how romances are handled. The whole romance/friendship thing is very like Harvest Moon. It's like 50% of the game. They do actually have an effect on gameplay though which makes them more worthy. But even there you are still confined in who you can actually romance. Yes friendships and or romances should be more than a sidequest. But in order for that to happen ,they need to make a jump into the gameplay rather , than just being dialogue options. For example in FireEmblem , who you "support" with (they can be romantic, or not) has a huge influence on how that character functions. It's also not just a case of choosing the right (and usually painfully obvious dialogue). Take Jade Empire as the latest example. I ended up romancing the princess, but it had no effect outside of the dialogue options. I could have just left her with all the other talking books for all the point the romance had in gameplay. Ironic that the best transition of character feelings and gameplay was with Kreia and the Exile. Your relationship with Kreia had meaning because it went beyond the dialogue and into something else. Of course you couldnt really refuse her, so again it wasnt a choice as such. I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback]
XboxSithLord Posted July 2, 2005 Posted July 2, 2005 As for Jediphile, I refuse to continue a blow-by-blow flame war, not because you have superior arguments () but because you are not abiding by the laws of argument logic. It is pointless in the extreme. I have better things to do. I never attacked you, I pointed out an uncomfortable truth to you; your argument, as stated by you, was that graphics were more important that anything else
GhostofAnakin Posted July 2, 2005 Posted July 2, 2005 Actually I think thats pretty smart thinking. Romances are pretty low down on my personal priority scale for lots of reasons. The biggest one is they dont appear to have any real effect whatsoever. It's simply a case of going through the usual multichoice stuff till you either screw up (with no way to makeup) or you get to the "climax". After which everything carries on like it never happened. Any quality in the romance is a perception on the part of the player. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think that would be a good addition to KOTOR3 (or any further game with romance in it). Make it somehow affect the story. For instance, as a male PC if there were 2 female NPCs vying for your affection, if you choose one and reject the other, then the rejected one maybe leaves the party, or even worse, betrays the party at an opportune time. Or to a lesser degree, if a NPC has some information that could be useful for solving a specific quest, if you fail to romance her properly, she just never reveals that information, making you have to complete a quest the "hard way" Example: female NPC knows the codes to a secret passage way to a control room. If you romance her, she'll give you the codes, you complete the quest to find a way in the base. If you fail to romance her, she won't give you the codes and you'll have to then fight off the guards and find clues on how to make it to the control room the long way. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)
XboxSithLord Posted July 2, 2005 Posted July 2, 2005 Actually I think thats pretty smart thinking. Romances are pretty low down on my personal priority scale for lots of reasons. The biggest one is they dont appear to have any real effect whatsoever. It's simply a case of going through the usual multichoice stuff till you either screw up (with no way to makeup) or you get to the "climax". After which everything carries on like it never happened. Any quality in the romance is a perception on the part of the player. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think that would be a good addition to KOTOR3 (or any further game with romance in it). Make it somehow affect the story. For instance, as a male PC if there were 2 female NPCs vying for your affection, if you choose one and reject the other, then the rejected one maybe leaves the party, or even worse, betrays the party at an opportune time. Or to a lesser degree, if a NPC has some information that could be useful for solving a specific quest, if you fail to romance her properly, she just never reveals that information, making you have to complete a quest the "hard way" Example: female NPC knows the codes to a secret passage way to a control room. If you romance her, she'll give you the codes, you complete the quest to find a way in the base. If you fail to romance her, she won't give you the codes and you'll have to then fight off the guards and find clues on how to make it to the control room the long way. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> that would be awesome.
SteveThaiBinh Posted July 2, 2005 Posted July 2, 2005 Yes, if you're going to have meaningful romance in an RPG, there has to be a choice, depending on what kind of character you're playing. Either that or you start with a fixed romance (i.e. you're already married), and your choice is either to keep the relationship up or let it slide. Kotor 1 was a first step - as a female character you had a choice between Carth and Juhani, and for the want of a little more development (restored by a mod), the Carth romance had a huge impact on the ending of the DS game. Needed a lot of expansion, though. It is tricky both to have a choice and to make the romance storyline vital to the game as a whole, but I thought Obsidian were an adventurous bunch. Let's see what they can come up with. "An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov)
metadigital Posted July 2, 2005 Posted July 2, 2005 I have no objections to inter-species romance; not all romance has too be consumated in some sort of mucus exchange, after all. " <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You're just saying that because you thought Mission was hot. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If she were a little older, sure. Seriously, there is such a thing as platonic relationships. I mean, it's almost makes more sense, considering it's a virtual realtionship carried out vicariously ... OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT
GhostofAnakin Posted July 2, 2005 Posted July 2, 2005 If she were a little older, sure. Seriously, there is such a thing as platonic relationships. I mean, it's almost makes more sense, considering it's a virtual realtionship carried out vicariously ... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You're nothing but a Twi'leksexual. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)
metadigital Posted July 2, 2005 Posted July 2, 2005 I think that would be a good addition to KOTOR3 (or any further game with romance in it). Make it somehow affect the story. For instance, as a male PC if there were 2 female NPCs vying for your affection, if you choose one and reject the other, then the rejected one maybe leaves the party, or even worse, betrays the party at an opportune time. Or to a lesser degree, if a NPC has some information that could be useful for solving a specific quest, if you fail to romance her properly, she just never reveals that information, making you have to complete a quest the "hard way" Example: female NPC knows the codes to a secret passage way to a control room. If you romance her, she'll give you the codes, you complete the quest to find a way in the base. If you fail to romance her, she won't give you the codes and you'll have to then fight off the guards and find clues on how to make it to the control room the long way. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ding ding ding ding! We have a winner! Yep, it needs to actually be part of the whole game OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT
JediConsular7 Posted July 2, 2005 Posted July 2, 2005 Actually romancing your characters is much fun. I know I messed with Bastila on KOTOR and made sure I talked to her about every different option I could. It adds a lot of fun to the game but if she was a twilek or something else I dont think I would have. Just not interested in tentacle headed women and such to flirt with even if its just in a game.
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted July 2, 2005 Posted July 2, 2005 Yes, if you're going to have meaningful romance in an RPG, there has to be a choice, depending on what kind of character you're playing. Either that or you start with a fixed romance (i.e. you're already married), and your choice is either to keep the relationship up or let it slide. Kotor 1 was a first step - as a female character you had a choice between Carth and Juhani, and for the want of a little more development (restored by a mod), the Carth romance had a huge impact on the ending of the DS game. Needed a lot of expansion, though. It is tricky both to have a choice and to make the romance storyline vital to the game as a whole, but I thought Obsidian were an adventurous bunch. Let's see what they can come up with. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually from a male perspective KOTOR was a big step back from BG II. One of the things that needs to be addressed is VO. I think thats the reason for the step back more than anything. Even if you could add all those voiced options , your pushing the costs through the roof. What is required is for things to catch up again. Much like the time between 2d and 3d (although this is very different and the costs are external , so perhaps not the best example). I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback]
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted July 2, 2005 Posted July 2, 2005 Actually romancing your characters is much fun. I know I messed with Bastila on KOTOR and made sure I talked to her about every different option I could. It adds a lot of fun to the game but if she was a twilek or something else I dont think I would have. Just not interested in tentacle headed women and such to flirt with even if its just in a game. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thats one of the key weaknesses in romances. They are very player centric. I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback]
metadigital Posted July 2, 2005 Posted July 2, 2005 The only reason to have a romance option in a game, imo, is to have the betrothed end up as a hostage in the later part of the plot, or else killed off and therefore a vengence motivation. Just having a pixelated orgasm at the end of the story is pointless. OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted July 2, 2005 Posted July 2, 2005 The only reason to have a romance option in a game, imo, is to have the betrothed end up as a hostage in the later part of the plot, or else killed off and therefore a vengence motivation. Just having a pixelated orgasm at the end of the story is pointless. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Most things in an RPG are pointless from the players point of view thats why they need to have a gameplay effect. Having your beloved kidnapped every 5 minutes gets old real fast though. FFVIII and FFX get my vote for best romances. But you couldnt work one into a game like KOTOR in the same way. I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback]
GhostofAnakin Posted July 2, 2005 Posted July 2, 2005 Another way romance could be used is to have some kind of romance angle with one the NPC party members, and just another NPC you encounter (ie. wife, lover, best friend). In this case, the NPC party member will come to a crucial point where he/she has to decide whether to stay with you (the PC) or leave the party and save his/her wife/lover/child/etc. from some kind of danger. How this would work is depending on your relationship with that NPC party member was. If you earned enough influence (or whatever constitutes having a strong relationship), then the NPC party member will let the PC decide what to do (and even have a LS dialogue option to let the NPC party member leave). If you have a weak relationship with that NPC party member, then he/she will decide to leave the party and go help his wife/lover/child/etc. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)
SteveThaiBinh Posted July 2, 2005 Posted July 2, 2005 Romances between party members, too. Atton and Mira? Visas and Mandalore? Disciple and Kreia? NPCs who leave your party to get married would be interesting too. I haven't played Baldur's Gate, but voice over is a limiting factor, yes. Then again, so is everything else - like having 12 potential party members. I'd like romance and relationships to have a higher priority - as part of a well-told story. "An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov)
arcanergr Posted July 2, 2005 Posted July 2, 2005 Pardon me if this has been already been suggested but I would like Darth Nihilus to come back as an extra villain, who will have the role of the one who would tirelessly hunt you down in order to achieve revenge. In Kotor 2 he dissolves to a red cloud which means that he became a Force spirit. It would be posiibel then to posses the body of another Jedi and come back to life again. I would not like him to be the major villain but a comeback should be fine. His role was far too small and too easily overpowered in Kotor 2 the moment you heard about his immense power etc and the whole game was hyped around him.(Yeah i know that he tried to suck the Force from the Exile and that the "wound" killed him but that was a comforing solution to end the duel)
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