should you be able to do anything in a crpg?

[mkreku]

Come on, guys. This is wayyyyyyyyy tooooooooooo easyyyyyyyyyyyyy.........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Getting steamrolled again and doesn't even know it.. I almost wish I was that simple. Life must be easy for the completely ignorant.

 

One thing that's always confused me is how some people think it's 'better' for kids to be watching violence than sex. Why are some people (mostly americans, as far as I know) so concerned by letting kids see anything sexual in a game/movie (Disney used computer graphics to censor Lindsey Lohan's bouncing boobs in one of their latest movies!), but letting kids pull off headshots in the latest hyped FPS is no problem.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

"And equally there are players who abslutely thrive on being as evil as they can."

 

So let 'em. It doesn't mean they're gonna commit rape in RL. That's just dumb. Games do not make rapist, murderers, or whatever heinous crime. Nor, do they make people into Little Angels tm. Morals like that are learned socially and part of someone's 'inherent' persoanlity. It's not taken from a game. Period.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually with games being as prolific as they have become it's almost a certainty that many criminals have played games at some point. Games are part of society and thus learning. If you believe that nurture plays a part in social development (which you obviously do since you just said it) then games as part of society are a part of it.

 

Seeking to absolve them just because[you dont like the implications] is no better than trying to blame them for every social ill that occurs.

[213374U]

I win. Your over sized words  is just your way to lamely to an ego stroke as to make yourself 'think' you win.

Uh. Next time you try one of your "special brand" comebacks, just make sure the grammar is arranged in such a manner that the post at least makes sense.

 

But come think of it, if no one can understand your posts, you don't risk making a fool of yourself. Ah, you're such a sly one, aren't you?

 

So, yeah, you've won. But at what?

 

You can't really tell.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

One thing that's always confused me is how some people think it's 'better' for kids to be watching violence than sex. Why are some people (mostly americans, as far as I know) so concerned by letting kids see anything sexual in a game/movie (Disney used computer graphics to censor Lindsey Lohan's bouncing boobs in one of their latest movies!), but letting kids pull off headshots in the latest hyped FPS is no problem.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That one is a mystery to me too. It does seem to be a more American thing though dosnt it ?

[Musopticon?]

Yeah, double standards are wierd.

[Volourn]

"Life must be easy for the completely ignorant."

 

Says the one who likes Dungeon Lord. That makes your opinion worthless.

 

 

"Seeking to absolve them just because is no better than trying to blame them for every social ill that occurs."

 

Just give me one example of someone playing a game then going allw acko without them having a REAL problem like drugs, family problems, bullies, or some other emotional/intellectual fingadoo than I think you'd have a point. However, you cna't so this point is moot.

 

 

"If you believe that nurture plays a part in social development"

 

Learned socially. Games aren't include din that. Families, friends, any othe rimportant human figures in someone's life; not some silly game or movie.

 

Games do not make people rape, murder, and commit other heinous crimes. Period. This is undisputable.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Just give me one example of someone playing a game then going allw acko without them having a REAL problem like drugs, family problems, bullies, or some other emotional/intellectual fingadoo than I think you'd have a point. However, you cna't so this point is moot.

 

 

"If you believe that nurture plays a part in social development"

 

Learned socially. Games aren't include din that. Families, friends, any othe rimportant human figures in someone's life; not some silly game or movie.

 

Games do not make people rape, murder, and commit other heinous crimes. Period.  This is undisputable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If the game is the catalyst then it's equally to blame.

 

Games are part of society. You cant just include the parts of society that suit you when it comes to social developement.

 

Games CAN be a catalyst for such actions. That is also indisputable.

[213374U]

"If you believe that nurture plays a part in social development"

 

Learned socially. Games aren't include din that. Families, friends, any othe rimportant human figures in someone's life; not some silly game or movie.

Of course. That's why any psychologist will tell you that things learned during childhood are integrated into personality and are no longer questioned or rationalized. In short, everything marks a child's personality while it's forming. The Jesuits knew that all too well.

 

But of course, you have your own theories.

[Volourn]

Proof please. No proof, and I'll just have to laugh at the non existence of gamers turned murderers because of games.

 

3 mil+ GTA players yet how many GTA players commited heinous crimes BECAUSE of GTA and not other problems? ZERO.

 

 

Game over.

[mkreku]

"Life must be easy for the completely ignorant."

 

Says the one who likes Dungeon Lord. That makes your opinion worthless.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Haha, the Neverwinter Nights fanboi is trying to use a game against me

 

You obviously lack the ability to see the big picture with your narrow mind. Why not just give up the discussion already since your simplistic view of the world doesn't add anything to this (rather interesting) discussion? I'm glad you learned such a big word as undisputable though!

 

On topic:

Everything around us affects us, this is 'undisputable'. Games aren't excluded from this just because it suits some simple beings argument. This is also 'undisputable'. Killing people in, for example Counterstrike, does give children the same sense of awareness and reactions as a trained fighter pilot, which is good. It might also normalize murder among some of the kids, although this is much harder to prove as the human psyche is somewhat complex (understatement of the year). It's like trying to explain why some people go through war mentally unharmed, while another suffers from post traumatic stress syndromes years after being the witness to a bank robbery.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Proof please. No proof, and I'll just have to laugh at the non existence of gamers turned murderers because of games.

 

3 mil+ GTA players yet how many GTA players commited heinous crimes BECAUSE of GTA and not other problems? ZERO.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You cant say that any more than you can say they commited them because of GTA. GTA is a very popular game amoung joy riders. Then you get the chicken egg scenario which is did they start joy riding because it was the next step. It's like the causal link for pornography, or did they pick up on GTA because it suited their "lifestyle".

 

It's all about contributing factors, there are no absolutes even when child A becomes a wife beater because his father was. Child b on the other hand is happily married and not a wife beater.

 

Therefore you cant say just because your father beat your mother that you will beat your wife, dosnt work that way.

[Volourn]

No proof yet? Oh well, keep up the spinning wheels, fellows. It's very sad. And, yo, Mkreku, your post reeks of Black & White. Look in the mirror next time. At least SP's post (in this case) isn't full of hypocrisy.

 

 

"Haha, the Neverwinter Nights fanboi is trying to use a game against me"

 

DL = Hated, highly criticized game (except by you even though you arne't fully behind besides your pre release pimping of game) that seems to have been a financial dissapointment.

 

NWN = Million + seller, still going strong after 3+ years, a gaurnateed seller of a sequel, many hardcore fans, and maybe 3 detractors using differnet names to repeat the same 'ol retarded, hypocritcal bashings.

 

No contest. I win. NWN > DL.

 

 

Game over. For DL, at least.

[draakh_kimera]

No proof yet?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Proof? No, no proof, but, let's use your own logic:

 

Can you disprove anything that has been said so far? Anything that will absolutely negate any claims that violent video games can be responsible, as inspiration, catalyst, anything, for any possible real life violence.

[mkreku]

No contest. I win. NWN > DL.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

WARNING! Totally off topic:

 

My official reviews:

 

Neverwinter Nights: 75%

Dungeon Lords: 68%

 

Nope, no contest there. Not that I see how you win.

 

Now, explain to me how this incredibly moronic discussion is on topic and I might not have to report you for derailing yet another thread. You're getting tiresome.

 

Please stop spamming and stick to topic, NWN fanboi.

 

 

On topic: (aimed at Shadowpaladin)

GTA is a very violent game, but does that really revolve around the violence? I love the GTA-series myself and I see plenty of other qualities in those games. But I also know a friend who can't play GTA: Vice City because the game takes so lightly to murder that it makes him sick. Manhunt, on the other hand, is more of a disguised stealth game where the actual killing is what's supposed to keep you coming back. It's also a game that's been accused of inspiring youngsters to committing crimes in several countries. I think it was banned in Australia, even. I don't have any problems imagining Manhunt having a profound effect on certain individuals.

[Volourn]

"Can you disprove anything that has been said so far? Anything that will absolutely negate any claims that violent video games can be responsible, as inspiration, catalyst, anything, for any possible real life violence."

 

Already have. Every instance in which a game has been blamed for violence the perpetrator had other more major problems than the fact that he happened to play a silly game. Every single one. That may be 'circumstanstial'; but it's the best way to prove a negative.

 

You, and others make the accusation that games are evil little parasites that create little monster rapists and murderers eyt give no proof, and why? Because, it cna't be proven. That's why.

 

 

 

Mkreku the Troll:"Now, explain to me how this incredibly moronic discussion is on topic and I might not have to report you for derailing yet another thread."

 

Report me for derialment and I'll report you for derailment, flaming, and posting just to attack another poster and not to truly post on the topic. My inital posts in this topic were all on topic until you should up just to launch your latest crusade against Evil 'Ol Me.

 

So, while youa re making threats to report me; I am reporting you.

[draakh_kimera]

Already have. Every instance in which a game has been blamed for violence the perpetrator had other more major problems than the fact that he happened to play a silly game. Every single one. That may be 'circumstanstial'; but it's the best way to prove a negative.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Circumstantial isn't absolute, thus, you have not disproved anything. Of course, the "other side" hasn't proved, and probably won't be able to prove anything. What I'm wondering about is the absolute conviction that some of you seem to have. Do you really think it's absolutely impossible for games to have any influence at all? Movies have had certain influence on people, and I one is far more immersed in a game than in a movie.

 

You, and others make the accusation that games are evil little parasites that create little monster rapists and murderers eyt give no proof, and why? Because, it cna't be proven. That's why.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, I never said that. Don't put words in my mouth

[Musopticon?]

Reporting hardly matters here, as the folks responsible for further actions tend to check the reason for the complaint. The posts which are relevant, I mean.

[Volourn]

"What I'm wondering about is the absolute conviction that some of you seem to have."

 

It's the internet. Everything is in extremes.

 

 

"No, I never said that. Don't put words in my mouth"

 

Of course not. There is no speaking here hence I put now words in your mouth. That said, 'tis noted.

 

 

"Reporting hardly matters here, as the folks responsible for further actions tend to check the reason for the complaint. The posts which are relevant, I mean."

 

The mods here are perfect. They will do what is just, and they can see that Mkreku flamed me personally unprovoked. I'm only guilty of replying in kind because I believe in self defense.

[draakh_kimera]

Can't argue with that

[Kaftan Barlast]

*comes barging in without having even skimmed the latest 3 pages*

 

 

There will always be catalysts for unstable people to do crazy things. This could very well be Fallout 2, A Christina Aguilera song, "Catcher in the rye" by JD Salinger or that his favorite football team lost.

 

 

Should we adapt everything in our society after the extremes?

 

 

"Water is dangerous, people drown in it. it should be banned!"

[Musopticon?]

The mods here are perfect. They will do what is just, and they can see that Mkreku flamed me personally unprovoked. I'm only guilty of replying in kind because I believe in self defense.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I so want to see the swede's reply to this. Go mkreku!

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

*comes barging in without having even skimmed the latest 3 pages*

 

 

There will always be catalysts for unstable people to do crazy things. This could very well be Fallout 2, A Christina Aguilera song, "Catcher in the rye" by JD Salinger or that his favorite football team lost.

 

 

Should we adapt everything in our society after the extremes?

 

 

"Water is dangerous, people drown in it. it should be banned!"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Quick summary is basically how far should the depiction of violent acts go. More related to RPGs at first but we branced out. Stuff like dismembering children came up and using immortal babies as fire breaks (sims apparently).

 

I had a dig around and RPGs seem to be under the radar , personally I'd rather keep it that way.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

You, and others make the accusation that games are evil little parasites that create little monster rapists and murderers eyt give no proof, and why? Because, it cna't be proven. That's why.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No one has made any such accusation.

[Musopticon?]

I'm curious; why is using extreme examples so common tactic for proving one's point when making arguments in threads? Seems very un-subtle. Almost brutish.

[Volourn]

Sometimes, you have to bebrutal to get the point across. Subtlety don't work on 'Netters.