Education Problems

[WITHTEETH]

I live in a City in Michigan, they are not getting their funding for school that bushed promised, but its mandetory to still do the work. now 2 schools might have to close in my city ALONE. this is serious. 1,900 teachers in Detroit are going to be layed off because of this also. the revenge of the bush. we are a blue state and have top teachers in the US where i come from.

 

Is there anyhope without teachers? THe kids already do not have instruments till 6th grade now. this greatly upsets me. aren't we suppose to be moving forward?

 

JFK paved the way to make great minds but Nixon stopped that. and ever since we have been filling inthe gap with great foreign minds. thats great but now Bush isn't letting in as many.

 

I don't understand Bush, now he wants to push No Child Left Behind to Highschool. I wish he would see it form the teachers point of view. Our education system is failing due to Bush and this is where the line gets drawn.

 

Anyother Education problems?

 

Comments?

[Laozi]

The educational system in America has been in need of reform for atleast 30yrs. One problem is that pretty much all politician send their kids to private school, so they have nothing personal at stake in reforming education.

[WITHTEETH]

The educational system in America has been in need of reform for atleast 30yrs. One problem is that pretty much all politician send their kids to private school, so they have nothing personal at stake in reforming education.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is very correct. My boss also sends his students to a private school, i too went to a private school up till highschool.

This is a bit off topic but My bosses conservative view point is that the goverment can't run anything right, so its up to the bussineses too. he also said that the private school students grow up to become the bosses to the public school students, what a **** he is. <_<

Bussiness is for profit. and also just because something isn't working right means to stop funding it, we should try harder. It takes a real comppassionate down to earth guy to see the every day people the way that FDR and JFK, maybe its because of their illnesses...

[SteveThaiBinh]

What will happen to the students of the school that are scheduled for closure? I'm assuming that in the US, the government does have a duty to provide a school place for all children.

 

I've heard of 'No Child Left Behind'. What is it exactly?

[WITHTEETH]

What will happen to the students of the school that are scheduled for closure?  I'm assuming that in the US, the government does have a duty to provide a school place for all children.

 

I've heard of 'No Child Left Behind'.  What is it exactly?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good question, the ripple will be the other schools will divide to 2 grades a piece from 1st till 8th grade. high school and kindergarten do not get touched. Its still in the air to be exact.

 

i dont know whats going to happen in Detroit.

[213374U]

nd ever since we have been filling inthe gap with great foreign minds.  thats great but now Bush isn't letting in as many.

Huh? Is Bush preventing the entry of qualified specialists, university teachers, and the like in some way? I don't think his immigration policies are directed at that part of immigration.

[WITHTEETH]

The Immigrants are not treated as well, since 911 and the cursed Patriot act(stupid name). For fear they might be plotting something. my friend has more info on this, im not too knowledgable on this. i will look it up further.

 

Edit: There is also a Cap on the number of immigrants allowed in the US since 1990, only 65K Visas are allowed. heres a web site for more info if your intrested.

 

Lift the Congressional Quota on High-Skilled Workers

[Laozi]

Well I went to Hogswart Academy so I don't know a whole lot about public school

[WITHTEETH]

Well I went to Hogswart Academy so I don't know a whole lot about public school

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I went to a several schools, the differnces in my case were slim. there was less cultural and ethnic diversity in private schools, unfortunately. The private school expreience was Lutheran, im not religious so... if religion works for you, then you will benefit, i didn't. I guess the biggest differences are going to be in the low income areas. but at the young ages where they aren't changed to much by their surroundings yet its not too noticable.

[HaPhApAbLaP]

All I know is that a vast majority of highschool grads in and around San Diego seem to be complete F'ing morons. I'm not even exaggerating. Now, I don't follow politics, and If I have to choose between watching CNN or the Fairly Odd Parents, its gonna be cartoons all the way! So yea I have no idea what this no child left behind crap is, but if its going to render our educational system even more worthless I think I may have over estimated gb. If thats the case, well, god help us all. I know someone has to flip the burgers but jesus christ, are we going 3rd world or what! Mexicos schools kick more ass than ours.

 

I've spent a large portion of my life being, uh, "educated", and it seems to me that I havent learned much, hell I should have taken my exit exam in 10th grade and jumped straight into community college. Oh well, in retrospect I dont think I failed, I think my school system failed me. Maybe its time we stop being so stuborn and try to learn from our fellow global citizens, I dont know.

 

Some of my friends label me anti-American because I'm so cynical of our countries various institutions, but I say I'm a better American than they are. God bless us indeed.

[Kaftan Barlast]

Education is a mess everywhere, show me a country that doesnt have severe problems with the educational system and I will be happy for them.

 

But my #1 gripe with schooling today is that they're not teaching kids anything anymore(if they ever did), its just a big game where you have play along and score high on the tests so you can proceed to the next level.

 

We've known now for almost 60 years that the classic "you have until friday to memorize this data, when you will be tested" method of schooling is only useful for about 10% of students, the rest just play along, learning nothing in the long run. The problem is that we lack funds and teachers with the skills to apply the alternate methods we so desperatly need, so the old system still stands.

 

 

Ive forgotten around 95% of what I learned in my twelve years in basic school, thats not a very effective system is it?

[Atomic Space Vixen]

This is a bit off topic but My bosses conservative view point is that the goverment can't run anything right, so its up to the bussineses too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ask him if Ken Lay should be in charge, now that he's in need of a job.

 

 

I'm a liberal, but I agree much needs to be changed in education. Business isn't the answer, of course, government needs to be involved, but there have to be changes made both in and out of the system. It's one thing to make children go to school, but it's another to make them want to learn, or able to learn. So many can learn 1337 speak but they can't spell simple words correctly? There's something wrong there.

[Rosbjerg]

Well I went to Hogswart Academy so I don't know a whole lot about public school

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So you studied in England?

[taks]

Education is a mess everywhere, show me a country that doesnt have severe problems with the educational system and I will be happy for them.

hehe, the socialist bashing the largest social expriment in history!

 

public schools suffer from the granddaddy of all problems: a lack of competition. they are inefficient. public schools will always lag behind (on average) their private counterparts and will always cost more money to run. there are exceptions, of course, as the so-called magnet schools often do well. but they only take the brightest kids in the first place, which skews the results significantly (the upper 10% can probably learn by themselves and do just as well).

 

The problem is that we lack funds and teachers with the skills to apply the alternate methods we so desperatly need, so the old system still stands.

the problem is not money, it's socialism. it is inherently inefficient. why do private schools produce a better quality education at a lower cost per student (half as much, in some cases even less)? competition of the marketplace.

 

Ive forgotten around 95% of what I learned in my twelve years in basic school, thats not a very effective system is it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well, that's not really the point of school. it's not the minutia (sp?) they're trying to get across. the point of schooling is to teach critical thinking skills. to provide the tools necessary to survive in life. you've only forgotten 95% of the stuff you don't need anyway. that said, even these skills are not being taught in schools these days.

 

on a related side note, i plan to home-school my son. he's 2 years old and can already read numbers, count to 40 and knows his ABCs. he'll be reading by the time he's 3. public and private schools will simply get in his way. one other issue with the state mandated youth camps is that they only move as quickly as the slowest member in the class. the rest end up bored and hate the experience.

 

taks

[SteveThaiBinh]

public schools suffer from the granddaddy of all problems: a lack of competition.  they are inefficient.  public schools will always lag behind (on average) their private counterparts and will always cost more money to run.  there are exceptions, of course, as the so-called magnet schools often do well.  but they only take the brightest kids in the first place, which skews the results significantly (the upper 10% can probably learn by themselves and do just as well).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The same skewing effect also lies behind the supposed success of private schools compared with state schools. If you adjust for these effects, there is little evidence that private schools provide better quality education than state schools. Parents who send their kids to expensive private schools are paying for the social networking and the status, not quality of education as such.

 

why do private schools produce a better quality education at a lower cost per student (half as much, in some cases even less)?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They rarely do.

 

well, that's not really the point of school.  it's not the minutia (sp?) they're trying to get across.  the point of schooling is to teach critical thinking skills.  to provide the tools necessary to survive in life.  you've only forgotten 95% of the stuff you don't need anyway.  that said, even these skills are not being taught in schools these days.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Critical thinking skills, basic literacy, numeracy, social skills, intercultural competence, the ability to learn, and a dozen other things teachers have dumped upon them in the latest education policy fashion. Most schools do amazingly well at their job.

on a related side note, i plan to home-school my son.  he's 2 years old and can already read numbers, count to 40 and knows his ABCs.  he'll be reading by the time he's 3.  public and private schools will simply get in his way.  one other issue with the state mandated youth camps is that they only move as quickly as the slowest member in the class.  the rest end up bored and hate the experience.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good luck, it's an increasingly popular option. If more people and more governments could realise that education is about a lot more than formal schooling, the world would be a better place.

[cewekeds]

'No Child Left Behind' is used for votes.

The problem with schools its used for political tools. I hate how history is changing in text books making them PC so you don't hurt anybody feelings. For the most part Darwin's Theory of Evolution which is based on science seems like something that should be study and learn about in school. Sure there questions but thats what science is Q and A which just leads to more question which can prove something earlier wrong. I don't think we have time to teach every kid about every god that might be out there in school nor do I see the importance of it.

I hate the whole test scores grading a school. Good schools get more money and bad school get less doesn't make sense. I would study the good school to figure out why they are doing so much better.

 

I can't believe if god should be said part of a pledge. who cares I never said the god part. let face schools have bigger problems. another probably with schools are the parents. Parents don't know what there kids are doing half the time and when the kid mess up they sue the school. Thats cost lawyers and money which makes school suffer.

some schools have banned tag,dodgebal and games where you can lose. Reason it might make somebody feel bad. This I believe give kids a sense no matter what or how they do they will still be in the game. So they don't have to give 100% and be o.k.

I'm a republican I want less goverment involved in many things. Yes I want the goverment to support the school but allow independent education professional decide what school should teach and how lesson should be taught. To bad I didn't have anybody to vote for.

 

 

goverment has four main purposes

Defend the land

Make things reasonable safe for its people

basic education to everybody so its people can have better life.

Roads railroad tracks.

Things that are nice

Public transport

Loans to help people start and business or get better education

heathcare

[Kaftan Barlast]

Well, private schools do better because of two simple facts:

 

 

1. They can afford elite teachers and the latest in educational material

 

2. The stupid white trash and immigrants who bring down the GPA of public schools cant afford private schooling

 

 

...and private schools are also known for being far more generous with handing out top grades than public schools.

[Atomic Space Vixen]

public schools suffer from the granddaddy of all problems: a lack of competition.  they are inefficient.  public schools will always lag behind (on average) their private counterparts and will always cost more money to run.  there are exceptions, of course, as the so-called magnet schools often do well.  but they only take the brightest kids in the first place, which skews the results significantly (the upper 10% can probably learn by themselves and do just as well)...the problem is not money, it's socialism.  it is inherently inefficient.  why do private schools produce a better quality education at a lower cost per student (half as much, in some cases even less)?  competition of the marketplace. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The great thing about socialism is that it doesn't put a price tag on human beings. A private school needs to be one thing above all else, profitable. If it's not, it's not going to last long. Socialism will take care of those children private companies wouldn't accept because they would negatively affect profitability. Of course it's inefficient. People are inefficient. That doesn't mean we shouldn't give them the best opportunities we can.

[taks]

Well, private schools do better because of two simple facts:

 

 

1. They can afford elite teachers and the latest in educational material

did you miss the part about they provide a better education for LESS MONEY!

so tell me, if they spend less per student, why are they able to pay their teachers better? you just made the argument for capitalism and didn't even know it. not unusual, however.

 

2. The stupid white trash and immigrants who bring down the GPA of public schools cant afford private schooling

you're not serious, are you? this is one of the most ridiculous things to come out of you yet. btw, i wasn't an immigrant, nor "stupid white trash" (notice only those that don't have an argument seem to use inflammatory language) yet i managed well enough and i'm now working on a phd. hmmm...

 

 

and private schools are also known for being far more generous with handing out top grades than public schools.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i suppose that's why they do better on standardized tests, particularly college entrance exams? exactly where did you uncover this ridiculous evidence? coincidentally, this is something you actually refuted in #2 above... you know the whole "better teachers" bit?

 

taks

[taks]

The great thing about socialism is that it doesn't put a price tag on human beings.

an even greater thing is that it doesn't work. i get to sit back and laugh while proponents are continually made to look like fools. the concept of socialism is only in its second century and yet it has more failures than capitalism ever will. every social program in the world is failing. i love it when history proves such things right over and over and over and over...

 

A private school needs to be one thing above all else, profitable. If it's not, it's not going to last long.

uh, boy you missed out on this argument. the primary reason private schools do well is profit. duh. this is as simple as it gets. those schools that are efficient and hence profitable, will succeed. that's the beauty. they only need to worry about making money and the rest takes care of itself, as has been proven over and over and over and over... i don't know how many times private schools have to outdo public shools before people get they message that they really are better.

 

Socialism will take care of those children private companies wouldn't accept because they would negatively affect profitability.

and it drags down anybody that is even remotely better than the bottom. oh, and btw, the private schools don't have to turn down lower skilled children to look better. they provide a better education, period, which is why they do better. some are selective, but only some.

 

Of course it's inefficient. People are inefficient. That doesn't mean we shouldn't give them the best opportunities we can.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

opportunity. not a meal ticket. socialism isn't inefficient because of people, btw. do some research, socialism is inefficient because it does not have a price adjustment mechanism (which capitalism does). no matter how good some school administrator is, he cannot judge the true worth of the service he provides. only the market can do that.

 

taks

[WITHTEETH]

Tak, you have some valid points but saying that private schools are better is subjective. My school focused alot on religion which i beleive was not neccessary, also the sport program was laughable, diversity is rare. the good and bad was equal in my situation, where i come from they have some of the best teachers in the US. It just natters if you want "somthing else" in my opinion, such as religion, or special academic programs that some private school might have.

[Atomic Space Vixen]

I'm not going to deny that capitalism has a few good points, just as socialism has good points. The key is to combine the two for maximum societal benefit. Unchecked capitalism gives us robber barons, sweatshops, and massive pollution.

But back to schools, you keep going on about how private schools are "more efficient", the question is, how? Are public schools buying unnecessary books? Useless computers? Globes? Maps? Chalk? All the time while, by your own arguments, paying teachers less. Where is all this tremendous ineffecient waste?

Is it teaching kids that are hopeless? Classes like art or music that have nothing to do with raising good like wage monkeys?

I keep hearing this argument that public schools and, being in Canada, public healthcare is all so wasteful and the private sector can do sooo much better. Yet what I'm missing in the talking points are actual examples. Of course there are shorter waits for private MRIs because fewer sick people can afford $500 for a test. The public system can become more efficient by testing fewer people, which is how private clinics pull it off, but that means there are people not being tested and then lives are at stake.

If you'd like to take a look at failed systems, take a look at capitalism. The gap between rich and poor is growing every day. Jobs are being lost overseas to factories that pay slave-level wages. Profitable companies laying off staff for no other reason than increasing profit and raising share prices. A serious illness in the United States can bankrupt a family whether they have insurance or not. Enron. Capitalism may not be failing the rich, but it is failing society.

Again, I don't have a problem with people getting rich. What I have a problem with is the rampant life crushing greed that comes with unchecked capitalism. That's not a system I want running my schools. One book for every two students is more efficient, but hardly in the best interests of the students. I ask you again, what are public schools doing that is so "inefficient" that only a private company can do better?

I'd also like to point out at this time I have no problem with there being private schools, as long as there is a public system. Private schools should also receive no government money, because at that point they shouldn't be considered private and any student who applies should get in and stay in unless they exhibit behaviour that requires expulsion, under the same rules as any other public school.

Positive changes should be made in public schools. "Self-esteem" is all well and good, but we need different levels of classes for different levels of students. Maybe bus them to different schools. I remember being intellectually unchallenged in school. That needs to be addressed, and there is no reason why that can't be done in the public system. Imagine jockless schools where more focus is put on science than on football. It can be done, and it can be done in the public system. This doesn't require private companies. Again I ask, what are the "inefficiencies" that only private schools can take care of?

[Laozi]

Well I went to Hogswart Academy so I don't know a whole lot about public school

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So you studied in England?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

Ya, I had classes with Harry Potter and was in Gyffindor with him :cool:

[Darth Flatus]

Taks if private schooling per kid actually costs less than state run schooling in your part of the world then the education system is f'ed up indeed.

 

I am a strong proponent of capitalism but i believe a govt must invest in the public to become a strong and efficient workforce therefore they have a responsibility to provide free education

[Kaftan Barlast]

Well, private schools do better because of two simple facts:

 

 

1. They can afford elite teachers and the latest in educational material

did you miss the part about they provide a better education for LESS MONEY!

so tell me, if they spend less per student, why are they able to pay their teachers better? you just made the argument for capitalism and didn't even know it. not unusual, however.

 

 

That is not true for private schools in Sweden. Although there are special purpouse private schools(for moslems f.ex) that exist on the same budget as public schools, all of the "posh" schools have significantly higher budget and resources. It would be impossible for such a school to provide the kind of education they do without that.

 

I simply dont believe what you're saying, the only way that make sense is if you compare the overall budget for a 150 student Private school with a 10000 student public school, and then itd just be a case of faulty statistics. How would you be able to get more for less?!

 

 

2. The stupid white trash and immigrants who bring down the GPA of public schools cant afford private schooling

you're not serious, are you? this is one of the most ridiculous things to come out of you yet. btw, i wasn't an immigrant, nor "stupid white trash" (notice only those that don't have an argument seem to use inflammatory language) yet i managed well enough and i'm now working on a phd. hmmm...

 

Well, it was put more than a little rough. Let me rephrase that to:

 

Students that go to private schools come from wealthy, well-educated upper-middle/upper class families, and have much better basic conditions.

 

 

and private schools are also known for being far more generous with handing out top grades than public schools.

i suppose that's why they do better on standardized tests, particularly college entrance exams? exactly where did you uncover this ridiculous evidence? coincidentally, this is something you actually refuted in #2 above... you know the whole "better teachers" bit?

 

 

That they do better on standardized tests is largely because of what I stated above.

 

I have several friends and aquintances from the world of private schooling and when we compare notes, it no doubt that they were treated much better by their teachers. Its difficult to really describe it but whereas my teachers considered MVG(the top grade) reserved for the chosen elite, their teachers viewed it as the standard. Whereas I got 100% on the national english exams and still didnt get MVG because the teacher thought I was lazy, they were greeted by class introductions like "if you come to class, you get G. If you participate you get VG, and if you do it fairly well then you'll get an MVG".