I just finished Icewind Dale!!!

[Ellester]

I'm not saying Interplay didn't help BIO. I'm saying theya re not responsible for BIO's success (or failure). That's ridiculous. Interplay is responbile for Interplay; BIO is responsible for BIO. Period. They worked together; because they wer ebeing responsible to their own needs and desires.

 

You can call it black, and white all you want; the fact is a company is responsible for its own successes and failures.

 

 

Just because someone helps someone else get somewhere doe not make them responsible for them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Again you

[Gromnir]

Heck, Bioware (eventually) developed NWN, and they're still around.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

you got a point?

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Sargallath Abraxium]

Heck, Bioware (eventually) developed NWN, and they're still around.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

...the BIOborg be like Herpes; ye ne'er truly gits rid o' 'em...

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

[Volourn]

"All we know is rumors"

 

False. We know for a fact that Troika decided to sign with Activision. That is their responsibilty. The bottom line is all decisions that concern Troika's well being was Troika's to make. Troika was not forced to sign with Activision. they chose to which means they got stuck with the good aspects of Activision as well as the bad. Same with Bioware, and Interplay.

 

 

"If your parents gave you $20,000 to help you and your wife put toward a down payment on a house; are they just being helpful, or are they partly responsible that you now live in that house? Sorry, but they are partly responsible that you now live in that house."

 

Are my aprents xpecting me to give back 30k or was it a gift or helping hand? if it's the first one; yes they helped. Of course, bottom line is you are still responsible for getting the house. Afterall, the ultimate choice of whether or not you get the house is yours. You could not ask your parents, turn them down, get a loan elsewhere. It all comes back to you.

 

 

"This situation is similar to Interplay when I say they are partly responsible for the success of Bioware in helping them get the BG and NWN games. Without IPLY they would not have created BG or NWN. And I

[Ellester]

"All we know is rumors"

 

False. We know for a fact that Troika decided to sign with Activision. That is their responsibilty. The bottom line is all decisions that concern Troika's well being was Troika's to make. Troika was not forced to sign with Activision. they chose to which means they got stuck with the good aspects of Activision as well as the bad. Same with Bioware, and Interplay.

So? Just because they chose Activision (or the other way around) doesn

[Volourn]

Nope. 100% responsibility is the way to go. Pointing fingers at other people is just silly.

 

 

 

"IPLY is partly responsible for their success because they gave them the outlet and helped them achieve their success with BG and NWN."

 

No. They didn't give BIo anything. BIO EARNED their success. If BIO went to Interplay with an awful demo of their engine(s) do you really think Interplay would ahve worked with them? Of course not. Interplay, being one of the top companies at that time, would have told BIo to get lost and that be the end of that. BIO earned EVERYTHING Interplay contracted them for. They weren't given anything.

 

And, yes, Troika's failure was 100% their fialure. The murderer is 100% at fualt. I dunno about you; but if my neighbour commits a murder I'm not taking the blame for it; not even 1% of it. No way jose. Yet that's what you wnat me to do so if my neighbour gets thrown in prison for 10 years; I should take 1% of the time accoridng to you. Uhuh. I think not.

 

A marriage is always a 50-50 responsibility. the husband is repsonsible for his 50%. He failed on his side, and the wife failed as well. 100% each responsible for their failures.

 

 

"Also, Atari took on the last 6 months of development for NWN, they didn

[GhostofAnakin]

Volourn must have drove his teachers insane.

[Volourn]

"Volourn must have drove his teachers insane. "

 

Visit the enarest Cuckoo House; youa r ebound to see some of my former teahcers as permenant residents!

 

MUAHAHA!

 

Then again, it serves them right as it must be their responsibilty that i'm a bum now!

 

MUAHAHAHAHAA!

[GhostofAnakin]

Well technically, it IS partially their fault, since their job is to teach their students to improve those students' chances at success later on in life.

[Volourn]

"Well technically, it IS partially their fault, since their job is to teach their students to improve those students' chances at success later on in life."

 

No. Their job is to teach. My job was to learn. If they re playing tiddlywinsk then they would have failed. If I didn't elarn that I would have failed.

 

They are responsible for themselves; I am 100% responsible for me. You can force someone to sit in a classroom ('til a certain age); but you can't force them to actually learn.

 

If I'm a bum it's 100% my responsibility; if I'm a millionare it's 100% my responsibilty. (unless I was born into it)

[GhostofAnakin]

That's not totally true. Hence why there are good teachers and bad ones.

 

Obviously you need to be willing to try and learn, BUT assuming you're willing, if the teacher is terrible, then you will not learn and thus won't be a success in life, and that would be partially THEIR fault since it was their responsibility to teach that person.

[Volourn]

I disagree; but ah well.

[GhostofAnakin]

I disagree; but ah well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Which is why I refer you back to my original statement about you must have drove your teachers insane.

[Ellester]

If I'm a bum it's 100% my responsibility; if I'm a millionare it's 100% my responsibilty. (unless I was born into it)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What if a car ran you over, you lost the use of your legs and you then became a bum. Would it be 100% your responsibility that your a bum? What if someone felt pity for the bearded lady named Ted and gave it a million dollars. Would you be 100% responsible for being a millionaire? *shakes head*. Why am I envisioning a bowling ball being thrown at a concrete wall right now?

[Volourn]

"What if a car ran you over, you lost the use of your legs and you then became a bum. Would it be 100% your responsibility that your a bum?"

 

Yes. Afterall, in my country, people who cna't work for medical reasons arew covered. That's why taxes are high so yeah if I became a bum because of that it would be my fault. Duh.

 

" What if someone felt pity for the bearded lady named Ted and gave it a million dollars. Would you be 100% responsible for being a millionaire?"

 

Yes. There must have been some reason she gave the money to me. Afterall, I'm sure there are other bums out there she coulda gave the money to; so why me? i'm nuttin' special. At worse, it's the exception to the rule. *shakes head*.

 

 

"Why am I envisioning a bowling ball being thrown at a concrete wall right now?"

 

Works both ways.

[J.E. Sawyer]

BIo did not choose Obsdiian. Atari, and LA did. BIo simply suggested them. Good for that. Doesn't change the fact, that Obsidian is 100% responsiblble for their success and/or failures. This is completely different than recieving or not reciving help. It's about responsible. I guess you are one of those who think it was the publishers' fualt that Troika folded.

I know this is harder to do than lumping everything together under one label, but your should recognize that responsibility for group endeavors factually involves different levels of participation and contribution from all members of the group.

[Volourn]

Ok.

[6 Foot Invisible Rabbit]

It is both the developers and the publishers responsibility for their game. Whose fault Troika folded? They are but Atari, Vivendi, and Activision each had a hand in their failure.

 

Whose responsible for the condition of KotOR 2, both Obsidian and Lucas Arts.

 

Who is responsible for Bioware's success? They are in conjuction of their various publishers.

 

It takes two to tango except in cases that the developer is also the publisher, plain and simple.

 

[J.E. Sawyer]

Ok.

So if Interplay contributed some of the code that BioWare used in the making of Baldur's Gate, Interplay is responsible for that code, right? And if that code is part of the finished product, how is Interplay not partially responsible for the success of the game?

 

You can't really reduce every contribution down to "well duh, that's their job." You could say it was just BioWare's job to code the engine, but that's pretty silly, too. There are a number of factors that contribute to the success of any given title. And even success can be measured in a variety of ways by different people. Even if you base it simply off of units sold, it's not as simple as saying, "The game was coded well" or "The art was good" or "The marketing was positioned very well".

 

Responsibility in complex social interactions is often very difficult to convincingly pinpoint. Who can know why every single person bought a game or liked it? You know why I played BG? Because it was an AD&D game. It had nothing to do with what I had seen of the writing, the art, or really anything that BioWare had put forward. I heard, "2nd Ed. AD&D game" and I was sold. I didn't like the resulting game very much, but even those who dislike a game can contribute to its "success" through their purchase. Interplay was the company that bought the license and TSR was the company that built the license. I wouldn't pinpoint any single person or group as being responsible for my desire to play the game in that case.

[6 Foot Invisible Rabbit]

J.E., in my ever so humble opinion, I think you are right on the money.

[Volourn]

"how is Interplay not partially responsible for the success of the game?"

 

You better reread what I wrote. I gave Interplay credit for their part in BG. I didn't give them credit for Bioware's success as a company. There's a huge difference there.

 

 

"Sure, they published it. And, they deserve credit for it."

 

Ihe above quote is mine from this very thread. I gace Interplay/BIS credit for their part in the BG series. Afterall, as the publisher they were part of the team that made it. However, that still doens't change the fact that Bioware is 100% responsible for what happens to Bioware.

 

If Bioware crashes and burns tomorrow are we all gonna sit here blaming Interplay because they played some obscure part in Bioware's history? I sure hop not.

 

Or should we blame Bioware for Interplay's collapse because BIO "took" NWN from them?

 

People - and companies - are 100% responsible for themselves. there are exemptions to this rule; but they are only exemptions. One exception would be if someone, say, STOLE money from ssaid company's bank account. but, like I said, an exemption does not disprove a rule; it proves it.

 

So, anymore accusing me of posting something I didn't? Interplay deserves credit for their part in making BG. That's it; that's all. I never denied that so why say I did?

 

 

"You can't really reduce every contribution down to "well duh, that's their job." You could say it was just BioWare's job to code the engine, but that's pretty silly, too."

 

Why did Interplay get BIo to make BG? Why was BIo so special? Why didn't Interplay get their role-playing division aka BIS to make it? Why not the tens of other game dveloeprs who'd have jumped at the chance to make a D&D game? It's obvious why - Interplay ssaw soemthing - likely the demo of the engine - that made them (specifically Feargus if I recall) who said to BIO,"Make a D&D game with that!"). It wasn't fluke or luck that got BIO the contract to make BG; they earned it. Interplay didn't give them anything.

 

Simple as that.

[6 Foot Invisible Rabbit]

Interplay did give them the DnD license which they didn't have.

[Volourn]

"Interplay did give them the DnD license which they didn't have."

 

Huh? When? Bio NEVER had the D&D license. Interplay allowed them to USE the licesne as did Atari; but Bioware never had it. Why do you think BIo is not even allowed to use characters from the BG series?

[6 Foot Invisible Rabbit]

Thats what I meant. Without the initial license use the Infinity engine would have been used in a RTS.

[Volourn]

"Without the initial license use the Infinity engine would have been used in a RTS."

 

And? That means nothing. I don't live altenrate relaities; I live this one. Afterall, I already gave Interplay credit for their part in BG. That, along with BG2, is all they deserve.