Kilkanon Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 ****** SPOILER ALERT****** Why wasn't the Exile included in this list?? He/she was a skilled and powerful Knight and an excellent strategist who understood both battle and war. These things were recognized and respected by Revan. Not only that but he/she was able to live through what should have been a lethal disturbance of the Force at Malachor V, especially considering the connections the Exile had to all under his command. Then, to take that wounding and instead of being corrupted by it as so many Jedi were, the Exile was able to walk away from incredible power and live his/her life as no other Jedi or Sith ever had... successfully, without the force for years... Learning an entirely new way to live that facilitated a much greater connection to the force later on. Not to mention the fact that one of Kreia's intentions regarding the Exile was to train one "greater than her first" or, to be specific, greater than Revan. In the final confrontation she is very pleased to see that she has obviously succeeded and openly acknowledges the Exile as the greatest she has ever trained. To be fair neither Anakin nor Luke ever reach their full potential. Anakin because of poor choices and Luke because of circumstances beyond his control. So who really knows how powerful they could have been... The Exile however is taught first at the Jedi Academy (back when that actually meant something), then through the experience of being a general in the Mandalorian Wars under Revan and Malak, then by learning how to live without the force, then by one of the most powerful and knowlegable teachers of that time, Kreia. I would say that the Exile had it all over any on the above list except for Yoda. I mean come on guys! Yoda had far more knowlege and skill in the force than any human ever could. His extremely high native ability aside, his longevity alone would put him above anyone on this list. He was 900 when he died! One thing that I have noticed in the continuing Star Wars stories is that for both Jedi and Sith, true power in the force is not really measuered by one's natural ability but by one's skill and experience. Yoda was cultivating skill and acquiring knowlege of the force both by study and experience for nearly a millenia! No one on this list could ever even hope to compete with that. So my vote would be as follows: 1. Yoda (hands down) 2. Exile 3. Revan Kilkanon PS - I also noticed while reading this thread that some people believe that Anakin is the "Chosen One". That doesn't make any sense to me. Luke is the only viable candidate for that position as Anakin certainly never fulfilled any prophecies that brought balance to anything. Luke, on the other hand, was able to orchestrate the conversion and or death of the last of the Sith Lords; the very ones throwing the force out of balance. Reference is even made in one of Zahn's later books to a dialogue that Luke had with Yoda before he died where Yoda tells Luke that balance has been restored to the force... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguars4ever Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 ****** SPOILER ALERT****** Why wasn't the Exile included in this list?? He/she was a skilled and powerful Knight and an excellent strategist who understood both battle and war. These things were recognized and respected by Revan. Not only that but he/she was able to live through what should have been a lethal disturbance of the Force at Malachor V, especially considering the connections the Exile had to all under his command. Then, to take that wounding and instead of being corrupted by it as so many Jedi were, the Exile was able to walk away from incredible power and live his/her life as no other Jedi or Sith ever had... successfully, without the force for years... Learning an entirely new way to live that facilitated a much greater connection to the force later on. Not to mention the fact that one of Kreia's intentions regarding the Exile was to train one "greater than her first" or, to be specific, greater than Revan. In the final confrontation she is very pleased to see that she has obviously succeeded and openly acknowledges the Exile as the greatest she has ever trained. To be fair neither Anakin nor Luke ever reach their full potential. Anakin because of poor choices and Luke because of circumstances beyond his control. So who really knows how powerful they could have been... The Exile however is taught first at the Jedi Academy (back when that actually meant something), then through the experience of being a general in the Mandalorian Wars under Revan and Malak, then by learning how to live without the force, then by one of the most powerful and knowlegable teachers of that time, Kreia. I would say that the Exile had it all over any on the above list except for Yoda. I mean come on guys! Yoda had far more knowlege and skill in the force than any human ever could. His extremely high native ability aside, his longevity alone would put him above anyone on this list. He was 900 when he died! One thing that I have noticed in the continuing Star Wars stories is that for both Jedi and Sith, true power in the force is not really measuered by one's natural ability but by one's skill and experience. Yoda was cultivating skill and acquiring knowlege of the force both by study and experience for nearly a millenia! No one on this list could ever even hope to compete with that. So my vote would be as follows: 1. Yoda (hands down) 2. Exile 3. Revan You're talking about Greatness, while the thread is discussing Power. As admirable as your critique is, they're two separate things. Now if you had mentioned the Exile's ability to drain the Force from others, thusly adding it to his own - then that would've been a valid argument for his *eventual* power. Pre-Mandalorian Wars, the exile was merely a "mediocre Jedi". Theoretically the Exile's Power could continue to increase indefinately....but we simply don't know his fate and hence, whether it does or if he 'becomes one with the Force'. ----- ****** SPOILER ALERT******PS - I also noticed while reading this thread that some people believe that Anakin is the "Chosen One". That doesn't make any sense to me. Luke is the only viable candidate for that position as Anakin certainly never fulfilled any prophecies that brought balance to anything. Luke, on the other hand, was able to orchestrate the conversion and or death of the last of the Sith Lords; the very ones throwing the force out of balance. Reference is even made in one of Zahn's later books to a dialogue that Luke had with Yoda before he died where Yoda tells Luke that balance has been restored to the force... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I believe this was a mistake of George Lucas' part. A sign of a great story/event (especially one invoving prophecies!), is to "allow" the reader/viewer to acertain their own interpretations - such inexactness lends strength, as it add to the mystery of the Force and the mythos of the Jedi. Instead, 'Anakin as the Chosen One' is now press release info as George Lucas has publicly anointed Anakin thusly so. *shrugs* If George Lucas want to f*** with his creation, who are we to stop him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nur Ab Sal Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 anakin is the strongest jedi he had the highest midichlorine count he even beat yoda by 10,000 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Even Lucas himself withdrawed from his midichlorian idea. HERMOCRATES: Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned. SOCRATES: This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nur Ab Sal Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 ****** SPOILER ALERT****** Why wasn't the Exile included in this list?? He/she was a skilled and powerful Knight and an excellent strategist who understood both battle and war. These things were recognized and respected by Revan. Not only that but he/she was able to live through what should have been a lethal disturbance of the Force at Malachor V, especially considering the connections the Exile had to all under his command. Then, to take that wounding and instead of being corrupted by it as so many Jedi were, the Exile was able to walk away from incredible power and live his/her life as no other Jedi or Sith ever had... successfully, without the force for years... Learning an entirely new way to live that facilitated a much greater connection to the force later on. Not to mention the fact that one of Kreia's intentions regarding the Exile was to train one "greater than her first" or, to be specific, greater than Revan. In the final confrontation she is very pleased to see that she has obviously succeeded and openly acknowledges the Exile as the greatest she has ever trained. To be fair neither Anakin nor Luke ever reach their full potential. Anakin because of poor choices and Luke because of circumstances beyond his control. So who really knows how powerful they could have been... The Exile however is taught first at the Jedi Academy (back when that actually meant something), then through the experience of being a general in the Mandalorian Wars under Revan and Malak, then by learning how to live without the force, then by one of the most powerful and knowlegable teachers of that time, Kreia. I would say that the Exile had it all over any on the above list except for Yoda. I mean come on guys! Yoda had far more knowlege and skill in the force than any human ever could. His extremely high native ability aside, his longevity alone would put him above anyone on this list. He was 900 when he died! One thing that I have noticed in the continuing Star Wars stories is that for both Jedi and Sith, true power in the force is not really measuered by one's natural ability but by one's skill and experience. Yoda was cultivating skill and acquiring knowlege of the force both by study and experience for nearly a millenia! No one on this list could ever even hope to compete with that. So my vote would be as follows: 1. Yoda (hands down) 2. Exile 3. Revan Kilkanon PS - I also noticed while reading this thread that some people believe that Anakin is the "Chosen One". That doesn't make any sense to me. Luke is the only viable candidate for that position as Anakin certainly never fulfilled any prophecies that brought balance to anything. Luke, on the other hand, was able to orchestrate the conversion and or death of the last of the Sith Lords; the very ones throwing the force out of balance. Reference is even made in one of Zahn's later books to a dialogue that Luke had with Yoda before he died where Yoda tells Luke that balance has been restored to the force... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm tired with devs who endlessly create ridiculously powerful main characters only becouse gamers want to feel special. I can stand Exar Kun alone but hundreds like him surely wil make star wars a trivial place. HERMOCRATES: Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned. SOCRATES: This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinneas Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 i voted for mace windu. ok so im not a a purist in the star wars story, but humor me i saw him take out a platoon of droids single handidly on the clone wars cartoon in 5 minutes . then again ill assume it has some merit to it cause its done by lucasfilms. on another note since i never read the books and just get filled in by what i read in forums, did the story with the exile/revan ever pop up in the books, or was this completely fabricated for the games? i mean the complete destruction of the jedi order's main governing body(the counsel) would more than likely have been passed on by word of mouth one way or the other. just call this curious ambition. maybe should start another topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilkanon Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Now if you had mentioned the Exile's ability to drain the Force from others, thusly adding it to his own - then that would've been a valid argument for his *eventual* power. Pre-Mandalorian Wars, the exile was merely a "mediocre Jedi". Theoretically the Exile's Power could continue to increase indefinately....but we simply don't know his fate and hence, whether it does or if he 'becomes one with the Force'. **************SPOILER ALERT*************** Three things... First, in the context of Kreia's statement about the Exile being the greatest she has ever taught it is strongly suggested that this greatness is being measured by power in the force since she doesn't make this statement until after the Exile defeats her and her three conjured sabers. Second... This probably belongs in another thread but... oh well... As I understood the story (and I only played it through as an LS Jedi) the Exile wasn't using his wounding at Malachor V to drain others. In fact that was the very thing he had turned away from and part of the reason he cut himself off from the force. After ten years of wandering the Outer Rim he is able to come to terms with the pain of his experience enough so that in an extreme situation and with a little nudge from Kreia he lowers his mental barriers a little and allows himself to feel the force again. From that point on he recommences his journey as a Jedi, regaining his unique ability to make strong connections in the force very quickly; a peculiar talent he had from the time he was a Padawan. Not the ability to drain others but to form a deep bond with others through the force such as would be expected between a Master and student after they had spent awhile together in training. As I understood it that is the talent that brought the Exile's party together and allowed the Exile to have such influence over them. However, the Jedi counsel saw the wounding and given the Exile's peculiar talent (which they never understood) and the Exile's history (which they never fully trusted) they fear that the Exile will use this wound after the fashion of Nihilus. They even try to explain the Exile's newfound strength in the force by saying that he/she has been using the wound to drain the life energies of all those he/she has killed. However, in her ensuing rage and at other times Kreia points out that it was the Exile's disconnection from the force and his/her subsequent life without the force (not the twisted use of the wounding) that allowed the Exile to come back more powerful than ever before. At least that is how I understood it. Thirdly... Where did you get the idea that the Exile was only "mediocre" before the Mandalorian Wars? As far as I know there was only one piece of information given regarding the Exile's pre-war life as a Jedi and that was his/her ability to make connections in the force. I don't remember anything other than that. However, you'd probably agree that it is unlikely that Revan would have made a "mediocre Jedi" a general of his army. Not saying that the Exile was another Revan at the time but simply that the meager evidence suggests that the Exile was a Jedi of at least some distinction. Kilkanon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Even Lucas himself withdrawed from his midichlorian idea. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> When? Did someone beat some sense in to him or something? "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Patsuriku Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Kinneas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinneas Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 ok, so they just kind of skip around when they make the comic stories? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nur Ab Sal Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 They wanted to present key events of the ancient times that set in motion storyline of the GL movie saga. HERMOCRATES: Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned. SOCRATES: This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haitoku Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Thirdly... Where did you get the idea that the Exile was only "mediocre" before the Mandalorian Wars? As far as I know there was only one piece of information given regarding the Exile's pre-war life as a Jedi and that was his/her ability to make connections in the force. I don't remember anything other than that. However, you'd probably agree that it is unlikely that Revan would have made a "mediocre Jedi" a general of his army. Not saying that the Exile was another Revan at the time but simply that the meager evidence suggests that the Exile was a Jedi of at least some distinction. I don't think he/she was actually. The droid holo-message on Danto- reveals that both Master Vrook and Vandar considered him to be an "Average" Force user. But then again... When you face the Masters (LS anyhow) they comment on how you were always able to learn things so quickly (Force bond possibly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J2O Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Ok I Knw This Has Nuffin 2 Do Wiv This Bt Can U lot Help Me Is There A MP Mode On KOTOR 2.........I Jus Got It 2Day If There Is How Do u Get 2 It? Plz Help Thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 What about Tulak Hord? The guy that was such an uber duelist that he "makes us look like children playing with toys" I think that the Exile was super powerful. He had the guts to turn away from the force and then pick it up again. He was so powerful that he could kill the force . . . Vader and Luke were nothing without the Force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthWeevil Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 anakin is the strongest jedi he had the highest midichlorine count he even beat yoda by 10,000 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Even Lucas himself withdrawed from his midichlorian idea. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> *chokes on midichlorians* I was hoping I'd never hear that word again. *gags* Does this mean the Special Edition remastered version of Episode I (In glorious 3dimensional smellyvision as Lucas originally intended it) will have midichlorians removed? hopehopehopehope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 P.S. If the Exile is the greatist Jedi Traya taught, that means that he was BETTER than Revan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 There should NOT be a new PC in KotOR III They should stick to Revan or the Exile . . . There are to many SUPER POWERFUL JEDI around as it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haitoku Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 P.S. If the Exile is the greatist Jedi Traya taught, that means that he was BETTER than Revan! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not exactly. Traya didn't have any contact with Revan since the Jedi Civil War. I don't think she realizes that Revan isn't the same person anymore =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthWeevil Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 P.S. If the Exile is the greatist Jedi Traya taught, that means that he was BETTER than Revan! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not exactly. Traya didn't have any contact with Revan since the Jedi Civil War. I don't think she realizes that Revan isn't the same person anymore =P <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And its just her personal opinion, and we ALL know about opinions don't we forumites? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthWeevil Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 There should NOT be a new PC in KotOR III They should stick to Revan or the Exile . . . There are to many SUPER POWERFUL JEDI around as it is! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think Revan will wake up at the beginning of KOTOR 3 and realise KOTOR2 was all 'just a dream'.. then pick up where he/she left off " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaramirK Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 There should NOT be a new PC in KotOR III They should stick to Revan or the Exile . . . There are to many SUPER POWERFUL JEDI around as it is! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Agreed. Oh, and Darth Weevil? Your ruining my day just thinking about that possibility <_< :D Wouldn't that just be the worst story Idea ever? Unless you wake up next to Bastila... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KotOR_rules2004 Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 First off I would only count people from the official Star Wars Database, and as far as I know, no single person from KOTOR II-TSL has been added, so Darth Nihilus, Darth Sion, Darth Traya, and Exile are all exempt in my opinion. However all events and characters from KOTOR have been added so Revan, Jolee, Bastilla and others are o.k. Second, How can someone say Luke Skywalker could beat anyone one on one? Yes he is powerful, and yes he crippled the Empire. Sure, he rebuilt the republic, and has started a new Jedi Order. On the other side he isn't keeping the Jedi traditions, like accepting all these grown people into the order. Him and his father, Anakin were exceptions. He learned the art of the lightsaber from and old man and the Jedi were basically no more. So, he would not have the full skill with the weapon as say Mace Windu, or Obi-Wan in his good ol' days. Have you seen the way Luke fights with a lightsaber, it is a bunch of brute swings and lunges, like he is fighting with a Claymore. Don't get me wrong, Luke is very cool, and a great Jedi, but I think he needs to be more Devote to the traditional Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLordRulius Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 First off I would only count people from the official Star Wars Database, and as far as I know, no single person from KOTOR II-TSL has been added, so Darth Nihilus, Darth Sion, Darth Traya, and Exile are all exempt in my opinion. However all events and characters from KOTOR have been added so Revan, Jolee, Bastilla and others are o.k. Well, they haven't been added *yet*. The KotOR 1 characters were added well after the game's release and is probably the same deal here. Second, How can someone say Luke Skywalker could beat anyone one on one? Yes he is powerful, and yes he crippled the Empire. Sure, he rebuilt the republic, and has started a new Jedi Order. On the other side he isn't keeping the Jedi traditions, like accepting all these grown people into the order. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Regarding to grown people, I think that they *had* to accept adults because with all the darksiders popping up, they can't just send kids to battle these guys. After a while I think Luke will go back to accepting the bear clan, however I don't know much of the post RotJ events other than the Jedi Knight series and Yuuzhong Vong deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaramirK Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Well, they haven't been added *yet*. The KotOR 1 characters were added well after the game's release and is probably the same deal here. Maybe the Official Starwars database is holding out for a content patch too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguars4ever Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 P.S. If the Exile is the greatist Jedi Traya taught, that means that he was BETTER than Revan! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> From a certain point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaramirK Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 P.S. If the Exile is the greatist Jedi Traya taught, that means that he was BETTER than Revan! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> From a certain point of view. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (Luke impression): A certain point of view?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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