Why Darth Sion?

[Yst]

I tend to accept "because it sounded cool" explanations more readily than literary ones and I therefore would expect "Revan" to have been chosen because it sounded like any number of scary or otherwise magical/mythological concepts and words, like revenge, riven, revenant, reverent, etc, but seeing as the franchise does have a penchant for shallow (i.e., we're not dealing with any sort of profound theological allegory here) Judeo-Christian mythological references, accepting Sion as meaning...well, exactly what it says, Sion, seems to make sense.  That is to say, meaning Sion of "Mount Sion" or "The Priory of Sion," or what have you.  Alternate spelling (though well attested) for Zion (i.e., Israel and/or the Temple Mount).

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Never seen 'Zion' spelled 'Sion.' And Darth Jew makes a lot less sense considering the character than does Darth student/heir

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In many instances, "Sion" is standard. For example, "Priory of Sion" and not "Priory of Zion" is the standard spelling of that (mythical) organisation, most recently made famous in the US by its centrality to the best seller The Da Vinci Code, as is "Sion" otherwise common in any number of Christian theological instances. "Mount Sion" is a common alternate spelling of "Mount Zion," as I say. You need only Google to determine this.

[Lifthransir Bane]

The Sith Lords "Darth" names are some kind of stage names, I think.

 

If "Vader" really means "father", how could that be explained in EpIII?

Was he so proud that he is a dark father?!

 

And, as far as I know, Vader didn't knew about his offspring when he assumed his name, but I can be wrong.

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Darth Vader doesn't mean dark father. Lucas named him Darth Vader because it seemed like a cool name to give to a buck rogers-type villain. It doesn't mean anything and the other sith weren't named Darth until Lucas decided to do that for the prequels.

 

Ever ask yourself why KJA and Zahn and the other EU authors just gave their baddies regular names instead of calling them, say, Darth Nefaris?

[poolofpoo]

according to lucas all sith are jewish

[jshall101]

He didn't name him self tho...

 

George Lucas did.

 

And Lucas wanted to use his name as a reference to his being Lukes father.

 

I think some starwars writers have followed suit and done this with some of thier Darth charactors...... and some have not.

[Lifthransir Bane]

In many instances, "Sion" is standard.  For example, "Priory of Sion" and not "Priory of Zion" is the standard spelling of that (mythical) organisation, most recently made famous in the US by its centrality to the best seller The Da Vinci Code, as is "Sion" otherwise common in any number of Christian theological instances.  "Mount Sion" is a common alternate spelling of "Mount Zion," as I say.  You need only Google to determine this.

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Sion is the French spelling of 'Zion,' and priorie de sion was a french organisation. It's a French-specific thing to not use 'z's when the other romance languages do.

 

I'm sure that Russian people spell Zion with a character that doesn't exist in an English alphabet. I meant that I've never seen the word Zion spelled 'Sion' when someone is speaking in English.

 

Furthermore, if the point is that Darth Sion means Darth French Jew, instead of Darth Heir/Student, then you might want to start by explaining why he has a scottish accent.

[poolofpoo]

if the point is that Darth Sion means Darth French Jew, instead of Darth Heir/Student, then you might want to start by explaining why he has a scottish accent.

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could it be that he's ashamed of his roots? i mean really, who in their right mind would openly admit to being french

[Yst]

In many instances, "Sion" is standard.  For example, "Priory of Sion" and not "Priory of Zion" is the standard spelling of that (mythical) organisation, most recently made famous in the US by its centrality to the best seller The Da Vinci Code, as is "Sion" otherwise common in any number of Christian theological instances.  "Mount Sion" is a common alternate spelling of "Mount Zion," as I say.  You need only Google to determine this.

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Sion is the French spelling of 'Zion,' and priorie de sion was a french organisation. It's a French-specific thing to not use 'z's when the other romance languages do.

 

I'm sure that Russian people spell Zion with a character that doesn't exist in an English alphabet. I meant that I've never seen the word Zion spelled 'Sion' when someone is speaking in English.

 

Furthermore, if the point is that Darth Sion means Darth French Jew, instead of Darth Heir/Student, then you might want to start by explaining why he has a scottish accent.

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You're once again distracting yourself from the obvious. I say to you again, if you do a google (located at google.com, if you haven't heard of it), you will find many, many English language organisations and places and titles which use the spelling Sion rather than Zion. This is a variant spelling within the English language. There are lots of those in the English language, especially in theology. Furthermore, it's entirely possible that whoever picked the name Sion intentionally misspelled it, in order to make it look less like Zion. After all, the word Zion is rather politically loaded, where Sion is less so.

 

The fact that Zion is sometimes spelled Sion does not imply that, when it is spelled with an 's', the conventional word for Israel means "French Jew," and I'm not sure how you ended up at that conclusion.

 

Furthermore, especially in this instance, amongst an array of names and places that really were picked because they sounded cool to some given person at some point in writing the script for a game, arrival at a likely origin for the choice of the name should not lead us to the conclusion that it has deep interpretive value. Whether Malak was picked because some writer thought Moloch sounded like a scary character in Milton (strikes me as exceedingly unlikely), or Sion was picked because it sounded mysteriously theological, regardless of which of those turns out to be the case, the name was ultimately chosen because it sounded like a nifty name for a supervillain, in the end. How the name was chosen is a source of curiosity. The suggestion of the possibility that the name has profound literally interpreted implications strikes me as ridiculous.

[Hive]

About "priorie de sion"... I hate to dissapoint you guys, but that was a made-up organisation. It didn't exist. It was just some guy wanting attention, and decided to achieve it doing some quite clever forgery.

[Lifthransir Bane]

The fact that Zion is sometimes spelled Sion does not imply that, when it is spelled with an 's', the conventional word for Israel means "French Jew," and I'm not sure how you ended up at that conclusion.

 

You're the one who reminded me that the French change all their Z's to S's with your priorie de sion talk.

Using the word Zion, and using the french spelling would make him Darth French Jew, I don't see what's confusing here.

 

Furthermore, especially in this instance, amongst an array of names and places that really were picked because they sounded cool to some given person at some point in writing the script for a game, arrival at a likely origin for the choice of the name should not lead us to the conclusion that it has deep interpretive value.  Whether Malak was picked because some writer thought Moloch sounded like a scary character in Milton (strikes me as exceedingly unlikely), or Sion was picked because it sounded mysteriously theological, regardless of which of those turns out to be the case, the name was ultimately chosen because it sounded like a nifty name for a supervillain, in the end.  How the name was chosen is a source of curiosity.  The suggestion of the possibility that the name has profound literally interpreted implications strikes me as ridiculous.

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The days of Darth names sounding cool alone ended with ep.1 when Lucas started giving the Darths symbolic names.

 

Moloch might be a demon from Paradise Lost, but Malakh is the Hebrew word for Angel, and the hebrew spelling is different from Moloch.

 

Let's review the TSL sith lord names:

Darth Traya-meaning betrayer (according to the game). She betrays you.

Darth Nihilis-meaning nothing. Has no words. Flies a ship that shouldn't exist. Can't be found. disappears when defeated

 

Darth sion-sounds cool. Why were the others given names that are sumbolic of their characters? Doesn't make sense.

 

Darth sion-meaning French Jew. Is scottish. Doesn't make sense.

 

Darth sion-meaning Scion. Jealous of Master/apprentice relationship with Kreia. Jumps at the chance to be Traya's lackey again. Is defeated by telling him that Traya doesn't consider him a valid heir/student.

[Lifthransir Bane]

About "priorie de sion"... I hate to dissapoint you guys, but that was a made-up organisation. It didn't exist. It was just some guy wanting attention, and decided to achieve it doing some quite clever forgery.

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This is unclear. Brown's story about them is not grounded in fact, but there is a document dating back five hundred or so years listing the members of the priory of Zion. This document doesn't say who they are or what they did and there is no mention of them anywhere else. It could have been a listing of poker champions through the ages for all we know.

[Yst]

About "priorie de sion"... I hate to dissapoint you guys, but that was a made-up organisation. It didn't exist. It was just some guy wanting attention, and decided to achieve it doing some quite clever forgery.

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This is unclear. Brown's story about them is not grounded in fact, but there is a document dating back five hundred or so years listing the members of the priory of Zion. This document doesn't say who they are or what they did and there is no mention of them anywhere else. It could have been a listing of poker champions through the ages for all we know.

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Indeed, it seems to have the wonderful virtue of being so poorly evidenced that disproving its existence is just as difficult as demonstrating it. The character of all good myth.

[Hive]

About "priorie de sion"... I hate to dissapoint you guys, but that was a made-up organisation. It didn't exist. It was just some guy wanting attention, and decided to achieve it doing some quite clever forgery.

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This is unclear. Brown's story about them is not grounded in fact, but there is a document dating back five hundred or so years listing the members of the priory of Zion. This document doesn't say who they are or what they did and there is no mention of them anywhere else. It could have been a listing of poker champions through the ages for all we know.

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The document is a fake. The people behind it admitted it to some French journalist in the beginning of the 80's or something.

 

I recently saw a documentary on this whole thing, you see. The guy behind it had also faked some documents stating that the founder of the ancient French Empire, Charlemagne, was his ancestor...

[Lifthransir Bane]

The document is a fake. The people behind it admitted it to some French journalist in the beginning of the 80's or something.

 

I recently saw a documentary on this whole thing, you see. The guy behind it had also faked some documents stating that the founder of the ancient French Empire, Charlemagne, was his ancestor...

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I'm not disputing this, because I don't know, but the document I'm talking about was found in the archives of some famous french library, or in the basement of the vatican or some such place, so a good question would be how did a forger get his forgery put in a secure room with other hundreds of years old documents?

 

The other question I have is why would a forger make up an organization and list its members without saying what that organization does? Kind of like calling a press conference and failing to show up for it.

[Hive]

I'm not disputing this, because I don't know, but the document I'm talking about was found in the archives of some famous french library, or in the basement of the vatican or some such place, so a good question would be how did a forger get his forgery put in a secure room with other hundreds of years old documents?

 

The other question I have is why would a forger make up an organization and list its members without saying what that organization does? Kind of like calling a press conference and failing to show up for it.

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It was found in a French library, open to the public under observation (eg. you can't take the materials home with you, but you may study them in private in the library). It's not all that hard to place a a document in one of the books. But it was a good job making it look authentic.

 

Why not tell what the society does? For several reasons. For one thing, it's more fascinating if clouded in mystery. Also, he wouldn't have to prove that the society does this and that - since he didn't directly claim that they did anything. What would he have to prove then? It was easier this way.

[Lifthransir Bane]

It was found in a French library, open to the public under observation (eg. you can't take the materials home with you, but you may study them in private in the library). It's not all that hard to place a a document in one of the books. But it was a good job making it look authentic.

 

Okay, I'll buy this.

 

Why not tell what the society does? For several reasons. For one thing, it's more fascinating if clouded in mystery. Also, he wouldn't have to prove that the society does this and that - since he didn't directly claim that they did anything. What would he have to prove then? It was easier this way.

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I don't buy this. A list of fake names on a piece of paper isn't a mystery, it's a waste of a good forger's time.

 

He faked a document in the 80s that doesn't prove or suggest anything?

 

Basically, if Dan Brown hadn't stumbled across this twenty years later, his effort would have been for absolutely nothing. I have a hard time skilled people will go to great extents with no expectation of gain.

[Kaftan Barlast]

So, Darth Sion isnt jewish?

[SteveThaiBinh]

Ooh, the Priory of Sion. Memories of Gabriel Knight 3 and the Abbe's French accent.

 

As for Darth Sion, it sounds cool (I guess), and to be honest, I think they're running out of things that sound cool. 'Darth Grievous' is pushing it a bit in my opinion.

[Guest Damar Stiehl]

About Lucas naming Vader.

 

The not-so-curious George was asked during an interview how he came up with the name Darth Vader. He said (literally) that he picked the word "Vader" off a mug that had the word "Father" on it written in different languages. He then said, oooh, "Dark Father"... "Darth Vader"... that's so keeewwwlll...

 

It's an incident well documented in several "history of Star Wars" books.

 

I'm not a geek.

[Hive]

I don't buy this. A list of fake names on a piece of paper isn't a mystery, it's a waste of a good forger's time.

 

He faked a document in the 80s that doesn't prove or suggest anything?

 

Basically, if Dan Brown hadn't stumbled across this twenty years later, his effort would have been for absolutely nothing. I have a hard time skilled people will go to great extents with no expectation of gain.

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Oh but there where documents *hinting* what this society did (which was protecting the holy grail) - but this guy didn't confirm it, but chose to be all mysterious. You know, like "maybe we are doing that, maybe we aren't - I'm not saying".

[Darth Drabek]

Wasn't "Moloch" the big brawling mutant boss in one of the more recent Mortal Kombat games?

 

I think it's one of the Commandments that there be a large, lumbering monster boss before the tricky evil final boss in all MK games.

[jaguars4ever]

First rule of SW fandom: SW isn't subject to logic.

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Rule # 2 : If in doubt, cannon takes precedent

Rule # 3: If cannon seemingly contradicts pre-existing continutiy, see Rule # 1

 

[The Dark Master]

I think Sion is a game of sounds: Sionara-Sayonara. the same sound, different spelling! easy and fun

[Hive]

First rule of SW fandom: SW isn't subject to logic.

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Rule # 2 : If in doubt, cannon takes precedent

Rule # 3: If cannon seemingly contradicts pre-existing continutiy, see Rule # 1

 

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You are both wrong. The first rule of SW fandom is:

 

"You do not talk about SW fandom"

[Gin-Ryu]

When I think of Sion I allways remember of The Bouncer for PS2 what an horrible game good graphics though

[Antagonist]

Ah, it's refreshing that Lucas' shameless revisionism(aka lies) slowly creep into the public mind.

 

Considering that Vader wasn't even intended to be Luke's father until the very end of shooting for Empire strikes back I find it hard to believe that it really is a reference to father. I am pretty sure that I read from the man himself that Vader was short for invader which fits his role in the first movie very well.

 

Here's a link to some earlier drafts of the Original Trilogy:

 

Link

 

Especially interesting is the last part of the Vader/Luke duel at the end of ESB. No mention of Vader being Lukes father, and this was the SHOOTING script.

 

Don't forget, Lucas is the same man who claims that Star Wars was ALWAYS meant to be a 9/12/6 part saga and who could not use a young actor at the end of Return of the Jedi because technology surely didn't allow him