Kreia's history *SPOILERS*

[Zilod]

This thread is redundant...

 

Kreia's history/storyline is full of holes in KotOR II (as is the storyline of KotOR II itself) .

 

Let's face it the game was horrible 55/100 max.

 

We are not all the same, what a guy may like another dislike...

For me the game is good, for you is not

for me the story is consistant and Kreia is an awesome char for you not.

 

as said people is different and don't like or receive things in the same manner.

 

This is meant to discuss about a particular char of the game... and i'm gladly to not be alone and to see that there are other people that enjoyed the game as i've done. I like to confrontate my theories and vision with them to try to know the game and it's chars even better.

 

What we are not doing for sure is to rate the game, there are alredy a lot of posts, magazines and other sites that do it.

[Orchomene]

Interesting.

I've the idea that Kreia was first a jedi, then fell to the dark side but recovered from this fall. Now, she is (during the game at least) neither jedi nor sith.

I agree with the "betrayal' theme. But I don't know what was the first betrayal. During the war against Exar Kun ? possible. It's sure for me that Revan knew that both codes were wrong. Revan also share the idea of conflict that revels the nature of human. (from HK discussions) HK-47 even says that Revan started the war to recruit force users, certainly an idea of Kreia, maybe because of what is hiding in the outer space.

 

 

But it failed, completly. Revan was the only one who was free from both sith and jedi code.

 

For me, Kreia/Revan are like Zarathoustra in Nietzsche book. They do the same error : they want to teach people that they can be free from all codes, but you can't teach this form of freedom because it contains in itself a strong opposition between the message (this form of freedom) and the way to learn it (by teachings).

 

Thus, she knew that this can only be taught by experience. So, she created many conflicts for the exile to confront (sp?). She knew that he has to learn himself the lesson.

 

Thus, She certainly was the one who manipulated Atris to betray the exile. She was the one who took Hanharr to show slavery. Every people around the exile were manipulated (more or less) by Kreia because they knew (and she also knew it) that they did something that was against their ethic code. They "betray" themselves at some moment. And for her, that is the big hole in the jedi or sith code. To be really free, means you can betray everything you learned because at some moment, you have to do it or die.

[bodrock]

Kreia is a brilliant character -- I only wish her and Jolee could have met.

[Zilod]

Interesting.

I've the idea that Kreia was first a jedi, then fell to the dark side but recovered from this fall.

Yes i think that too, i tried to justify it just because she felt that even the sith code was not sufficent to give her the knowledge she was looking for.

For sure when she meet the Exile she is no more sith and nor a jedi, even to say that she is neutral is reductive, i see her as enlighted, she learnt the nature of the force by the confrontation of the 2 opposite.

 

But it failed, completly. Revan was the only one who was free from both sith and jedi code.

Speaking about revan i think he is a bit more, he is described as the heart of the force, an interesting term.

It show both the Revan centrality and freedom from code, but also it give the idea that he is the essence of the force.

So not only that he is free from both codes, that are probably just a human construction, but that he embrace the force as a whole unitary thing.

(it will be very nice to see in KOTOR3 the conflict between Revan and the Exile)

 

 

For me, Kreia/Revan are like Zarathoustra in Nietzsche book. They do the same error : they want to teach people that they can be free from all codes, but you can't teach this form of freedom because it contains in itself a strong opposition between the message (this form of freedom) and the way to learn it (by teachings).

 

Thus, she knew that this can only be taught by experience. So, she created many conflicts for the exile to confront (sp?). She knew that he has to learn himself the lesson.

Interesting comparsion, i 100% agree, the Exile path is one of enlightment that is achieved experiencing the conflicts. Even what the exile should become fit well in that, he actually will be an example or even better a source of conflicts for the ones around him.

 

 

Thus, She certainly was the one who manipulated Atris to betray the exile. She was the one who took Hanharr to show slavery. Every people around the exile were manipulated (more or less) by Kreia because they knew (and she also knew it) that they did something that was against their ethic code. They "betray" themselves at some moment. And for her, that is the big hole in the jedi or sith code. To be really free, means you can betray everything you learned because at some moment, you have to do it or die.

Mostly agree, but i don't think this "betrayal" is always pictured as a positive process.

Look at Bao Dur, Atris and probably even at Atton, they betrayed themselves but that lead to their self destruction, so i will prefer to consider it as the betrayal of their bounds rather than of themselves.

The exile betrayed an ideology that was constricting his human nature, while Bao Dur probably betrayed his nature itself.

 

Is also true that you are mostly referring to the learnings and the artificial structures of a man, but i think is necessary to make clear that this is different than to betray our own nature itself.

 

This way the positive betrayal, the one that gives hope (as Kreia say), is a process of freedom that is committed against our artificial bounds that prevent us to express our full potential as Men.

[Orchomene]

I don't understand your concept of "betraying his nature" ?

Do you imply that Bao Dur is a good guy by nature ? I don't think we can apply this to ETs more than to human and even if we can see controverses (sp?) in this, the moral of the human being is mostly made by the society and not by human nature.

 

For me, Bao Dur has betrayed his moral code. But he is not suffering specifically from it, he is suffering because he couldn't accept it. Why ? Because it was the first time that his loyalty was in conflict with his ethic. But I can't say more about Bao Dur, I've not read the lines where he recognise it, only the dialogue between Bao Dur and Kreia when you are turning into a Sith.

[DarthNihilus]

Bao-Dur may be NOW a peaceful guy but at the time of MAlachor V he joined out of hatred and that nuke thing he did was the culmination of his hatred for the Mandalorians...only later when he realized the consequences of his doings he started to question himself