Malak

[Darth Sun_Tzu]

After completing the game and talking to Kreia, I am now sure that Malak was totally clueless. He knew nothing of Revan's true plans and goals and by his actions he set the Sith up for a big fall.

 

What do think of Malak now?

 

And what about Revan?

[Darth Sun_Tzu]

Hhhhhmmmmmm.

 

No one with any opinions on Malak.

 

I pitty the fool that has no opinion on Malak!

[master skidder]

i think we see malak before he goes to the dark side. when you see him at the temple it is when he is recruting for the war

[Zilod]

After completing the game and talking to Kreia, I am now sure that Malak was totally clueless. He knew nothing of Revan's true plans and goals and by his actions he set the Sith up for a big fall.

 

What do think of Malak now?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

imo the story don't take too much in account Malak, buti can't think that he was totally clueless, i'm more inclined to think that his desire for power made him blind, or just he was not able to keep the control of the dark side (as he was not able to control the starforge)

[Darth Sun_Tzu]

i think we see malak before he goes to the dark side. when you see him at the temple it is when he is recruting for the war

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What i am talking about is in referance to what Revan's plans were and that Malak was in the Dark.

 

I know we see him in a vision.

[Reveilled]

At least Malak was in KotOR 1. We see Sion twice, IIRC, before we kill him, and Nihilus once in flashback. A-woo.

 

And yes, he was as thick as two short planks, but he made a damn good villain. After all, being stupid is practically a requirement for the position. Traya is a bit too smart for her own good when it comes to villany.

[Darth Sun_Tzu]

I have to disagree. Malak may have been better than Sion and Nilihus but Kreia was much better than all of them put together.

[Reveilled]

I have to disagree. Malak may have been better than Sion and Nilihus but Kreia was much better than all of them put together.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Meh. Call me someone who likes stereotypical villains, but I prefer the bad guys who capture you and then figure out some needlessly long death that is easily escapable, and the bad guys who precede every fight with a big long monologue of how great they are and how flawless their plan was. Kreia was a deep character, but in my opinion, the writers fell into a "too much of a good thing" trap with her. Of course, I might be speaking differently if the original ending was used, because that had quite a bit of Kreia Monologuing.

[Zilod]

At least Malak was in KotOR 1.  We see Sion twice, IIRC, before we kill him, and Nihilus once in flashback.  A-woo.

 

And yes, he was as thick as two short planks, but he made a damn good villain.  After all, being stupid is practically a requirement for the position.  Traya is a bit too smart for her own good when it comes to villany.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Nihilus and Sion are just pawns on Kreia's board, she conduct the game, not the 2 siths.... ok Nihilus is a bit difficult to control as is just raw instinct, but due to his nature is very predictable and Kreia knows him well...

[Darth Sun_Tzu]

I think they got it right with Kreia and she provides most of the info that shows Malak's spupidity. If he has waited, instead of taking the easy path, Revan might have told him and he would have been even more powerful.

[Reveilled]

At least Malak was in KotOR 1.  We see Sion twice, IIRC, before we kill him, and Nihilus once in flashback.  A-woo.

 

And yes, he was as thick as two short planks, but he made a damn good villain.  After all, being stupid is practically a requirement for the position.  Traya is a bit too smart for her own good when it comes to villany.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Nihilus and Sion are just pawns on Kreia's board, she conduct the game, not the 2 siths.... ok Nihilus is a bit difficult to control as is just raw instinct, but due to his nature is very predictable and Kreia knows him well...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

True, but for a game that has Dart Nihilus front and centre on the box, you'd expect that they'd spend a whole load of time building him up to reveal that finally. If they'd concentrated on Nihilus from the start, and focused on his evil, it would have made it all the more interesting when it is revealed that Kreia is the one behind it all.

 

I think they got it right with Kreia and she provides most of the info that shows Malak's spupidity. If he has waited, instead of taking the easy path, Revan might have told him and he would have been even more powerful.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, but if Malak had done that, then he'd have turned out just like Revan, and from everything that's said about Revan in KotOR 2, it's pretty clear that pre-amnesia, Revan was an anti-hero, not a villain. And what fun is it to kill the anti-hero?

[Darth Sun_Tzu]

What do you mean by Anti-hero?

[Reveilled]

What do you mean by Anti-hero?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Evil for all the right reasons. Someone who is evil, but is evil because ultimately, they are trying to do good. Revan fell to the dark side because the only way s/he could see to save the republic. Since she would be unable to properly sieze power from the inside, she had to put herself at the head of the (Lesser) Sith Empire in order to conquer the Republic and prepare it for the attack by the True Sith Empire. And of course, one can't be the Dark Lord of the Sith without being evil. That's why she left the infrastructure of the planets intact, and didn't go in for the indisciminate killing that Malak did.

 

Something similar to The Punisher, I guess.

[Darth Sun_Tzu]

What do you mean by Anti-hero?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Evil for all the right reasons. Someone who is evil, but is evil because ultimately, they are trying to do good. Revan fell to the dark side because the only way s/he could see to save the republic. Since she would be unable to properly sieze power from the inside, she had to put herself at the head of the (Lesser) Sith Empire in order to conquer the Republic and prepare it for the attack by the True Sith Empire. And of course, one can't be the Dark Lord of the Sith without being evil. That's why she left the infrastructure of the planets intact, and didn't go in for the indisciminate killing that Malak did.

 

Something similar to The Punisher, I guess.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If my understand of your explaination is correct then Darth Vader would be an anti-hero. He fell because he was trying to become the most powerful jedi inorder to help people.

 

So this would mean you don't like the OT.

[Zilod]

Nihilus and Sion are just pawns on Kreia's board, she conduct the game, not the 2 siths.... ok Nihilus is a bit difficult to control as is just raw instinct, but due to his nature is very predictable and Kreia knows him well...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

True, but for a game that has Dart Nihilus front and centre on the box, you'd expect that they'd spend a whole load of time building him up to reveal that finally. If they'd concentrated on Nihilus from the start, and focused on his evil, it would have made it all the more interesting when it is revealed that Kreia is the one behind it all.

 

eheh true but that is marketing

Nihilus have a great concept and even if it does just an appearence i consider him as a "charming" character with his wild dark power, his endless hunger... i liked to see some more cutscenes about him, maybe when he destroy Visas world.

But i don't think i enjoyed a more "active" presence of him... as said is just a card...

 

I don't think this story speak about good or evil at all, i see it as more as a story of passions, of enlightment and illusions, and probably this is why i enjoyed it so much.

[Reveilled]

What do you mean by Anti-hero?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Evil for all the right reasons. Someone who is evil, but is evil because ultimately, they are trying to do good. Revan fell to the dark side because the only way s/he could see to save the republic. Since she would be unable to properly sieze power from the inside, she had to put herself at the head of the (Lesser) Sith Empire in order to conquer the Republic and prepare it for the attack by the True Sith Empire. And of course, one can't be the Dark Lord of the Sith without being evil. That's why she left the infrastructure of the planets intact, and didn't go in for the indisciminate killing that Malak did.

 

Something similar to The Punisher, I guess.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If my understand of your explaination is correct then Darth Vader would be an anti-hero. He fell because he was trying to become the most powerful jedi inorder to help people.

 

So this would mean you don't like the OT.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Hardly. Vader went Dark for love, but stayed dark for the power. He rants constantly about the power of the dark side, and more importantly, he has absolutely no qualms about blowing up entire planets and massacring billions of people. Revan certainly had rather major problems with destroying planets, and ultimately left the galaxy all on her lonesome to stop the True Sith, a battle that she would have probably know she wouldn't have come away from. Vader was Evil to the core, all but a single spot a Good, all that was left on Anikin, that Luke latched onto. Revan's evil, in my opinion, was only skin deep, and she was more of a Jedi than the Council was.

[Darth Sun_Tzu]

Vader was not evil to the core. He started out good and die good. He was manipulated by the emporer who fed his lust for power. If you remember esp2 he keeps going on about not being strong enough he wanted to be the most powerful jedi to help people. Revan was the same always seeking more knowledge.

[Reveilled]

Vader was not evil to the core. He started out good and die good. He was manipulated by the emporer who fed his lust for power. If you remember esp2 he keeps going on about not being strong enough he wanted to be the most powerful jedi to help people. Revan was the same always seeking more knowledge.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Previously, he wanted to help people. That all changed when he fell, and he only wanted to help himself. And yes, he started good, and died good, but is irrelevant. I said he was evil to the core aside from one spot of good. Luke latched onto that, and the fact that they were father and son helped Luke turn Vader back to the light. But in between, he was evil. Anti-heroes don't blow up planets.

[Darth Sun_Tzu]

Vader was not evil to the core. He started out good and die good. He was manipulated by the emporer who fed his lust for power. If you remember esp2 he keeps going on about not being strong enough he wanted to be the most powerful jedi to help people. Revan was the same always seeking more knowledge.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Previously, he wanted to help people. That all changed when he fell, and he only wanted to help himself. And yes, he started good, and died good, but is irrelevant. I said he was evil to the core aside from one spot of good. Luke latched onto that, and the fact that they were father and son helped Luke turn Vader back to the light. But in between, he was evil. Anti-heroes don't blow up planets.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Vader did not blow up a planet. Grand Moff Tarkin did.

[Reveilled]

Vader was not evil to the core. He started out good and die good. He was manipulated by the emporer who fed his lust for power. If you remember esp2 he keeps going on about not being strong enough he wanted to be the most powerful jedi to help people. Revan was the same always seeking more knowledge.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Previously, he wanted to help people. That all changed when he fell, and he only wanted to help himself. And yes, he started good, and died good, but is irrelevant. I said he was evil to the core aside from one spot of good. Luke latched onto that, and the fact that they were father and son helped Luke turn Vader back to the light. But in between, he was evil. Anti-heroes don't blow up planets.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Vader did not blow up a planet. Grand Moff Tarkin did.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Vader didn't have problem with it, did he? If Malak had did that while Revan was still Dark Lord, Revan would have killed him for something like that.

[Darth Sun_Tzu]

Vader was not evil to the core. He started out good and die good. He was manipulated by the emporer who fed his lust for power. If you remember esp2 he keeps going on about not being strong enough he wanted to be the most powerful jedi to help people. Revan was the same always seeking more knowledge.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Previously, he wanted to help people. That all changed when he fell, and he only wanted to help himself. And yes, he started good, and died good, but is irrelevant. I said he was evil to the core aside from one spot of good. Luke latched onto that, and the fact that they were father and son helped Luke turn Vader back to the light. But in between, he was evil. Anti-heroes don't blow up planets.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Vader did not blow up a planet. Grand Moff Tarkin did.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Vader didn't have problem with it, did he? If Malak had did that while Revan was still Dark Lord, Revan would have killed him for something like that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Malak bombed Telos, while Revan was around.

[DSLuke]

After having finnished KOTOR I thought Malak was a fool.

 

Now having finnished TSL I think he is an even bigger fool.

[Reveilled]

Vader was not evil to the core. He started out good and die good. He was manipulated by the emporer who fed his lust for power. If you remember esp2 he keeps going on about not being strong enough he wanted to be the most powerful jedi to help people. Revan was the same always seeking more knowledge.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Previously, he wanted to help people. That all changed when he fell, and he only wanted to help himself. And yes, he started good, and died good, but is irrelevant. I said he was evil to the core aside from one spot of good. Luke latched onto that, and the fact that they were father and son helped Luke turn Vader back to the light. But in between, he was evil. Anti-heroes don't blow up planets.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Vader did not blow up a planet. Grand Moff Tarkin did.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Vader didn't have problem with it, did he? If Malak had did that while Revan was still Dark Lord, Revan would have killed him for something like that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Malak bombed Telos, while Revan was around.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nope, that was just Malak, after Revan had been captured by Bastila. Remember the argument on the Ebon Hawk after you discover you are Revan? Carth blames Revan for the destruction of Telos, and Canderous interjects that Malak gave that order. Carth, being a military man, would understand that a commander is responsible for the actions of his underlings, and would respond with something to that effect. Instead, he dodges. Unless I missed something, there's no other indication of exactly when Revan is captured relative to other events.

[Darth Sun_Tzu]

My point is that Malak did while Revan was still Dark Lord, you said Revan would have killed him, which he did not.

 

Saul did the bombing to prove to the Sith he was loyal and it is my understanding he joined while Revan was still Dark Lord. Otherwise, why the confusion in the formentioned argument.

[Darth Credulous]

I'm going to talk about Grand Admiral Thrawn, from the EU's Thrawn Trilogy. A charismatic Imperial military genius who returns from the far reaches of space to find the Empire steadily losing a war with the New Republic, takes command and begins to coldly, systematically and brilliantly retake the galaxy. He wins the loyalty of his troops and officers with his fair, even-handed approach to discipline, his deep understanding of strategy and his quiet, unwavering strength and belief in victory.

 

And in the sequel to that trilogy, you discover that his motives were not purely those of conquest - you find out that beyond the galactic rim are a whole variety of threats Thrawn had been keeping at bay to protect the galaxy and the Empire, using a secret empire of his own, and that he had returned to the SW galaxy to put it in order so it could be ready to help fight against those threats.

 

The writing manages to handle that revelation in a way that is not pithy or false, thankfully. There's a strong suggestion that Thrawn had, in fact, been keeping back the much-maligned Yuuzhan Vong, and that his death opened the way for them to encroach upon the SW galaxy. One of the better characters to come out of the EU, and all the more interesting for not being a force-user at all.

 

There we go - that's your anti-hero, and one eerily similar to Revan.