UpdraftKyp Posted September 21, 2004 Posted September 21, 2004 To add to the series of "How to become recognized as a _____", how would a person become recognized as an efficent designer, or even an efficeint lead designer? Modmaking? Internship? Resumes?
TentamusDarkblade Posted September 21, 2004 Posted September 21, 2004 a design credit in either Pen and Paper or in games. Some folks get it though mods, but they're generally massively successful mods. It's a catch 22...you have to be a designer to become a designer. Internships or side stepping into the role is a good way to get into a jr. design position. I'd recommend the side-step method, because it gives you a better exposure to alot more elements of game creation (plus the interns i work with do all the crap database work) Hope that helps
UpdraftKyp Posted September 22, 2004 Author Posted September 22, 2004 It definately does, as I am looking into Design, and I want to know what classes to take from here on out... and knowing what path to take helps me...
TentamusDarkblade Posted September 22, 2004 Posted September 22, 2004 I'd recommend classes on creative and technical writing Sociology, phsychology, or philosophy (gives you good insight into character creation and player mindsets/reactions) History (best stories already happened, look into them) Excel and Word classes I'd also suggest playing with scripting tools and become familiar with learning new scripting languages. It helps when learning new tools used in design.
TentamusDarkblade Posted September 22, 2004 Posted September 22, 2004 also, I'd recommend just straight out designing stuff. Write write write. I've written a couple design docs just to get the feeling down on how to format them, what to include, etc. Mostly they're just great mental exercise about getting an idea and following it through to it's completion...then tearing it apart for balancing, fun factor, and technology limitations
UpdraftKyp Posted September 22, 2004 Author Posted September 22, 2004 also, I'd recommend just straight out designing stuff. Write write write. I've written a couple design docs just to get the feeling down on how to format them, what to include, etc. Mostly they're just great mental exercise about getting an idea and following it through to it's completion...then tearing it apart for balancing, fun factor, and technology limitations <{POST_SNAPBACK}> yea, i've tried my hand at design docs too, time consuming, but fun...
TentamusDarkblade Posted September 22, 2004 Posted September 22, 2004 do you use a template format or one of your own making?
UpdraftKyp Posted September 22, 2004 Author Posted September 22, 2004 do you use a template format or one of your own making? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I use a template from a book i bought online called Programming Roleplaying Games with DirectX... it uses the Bible per type kind of thing... what do you do?
TentamusDarkblade Posted September 23, 2004 Posted September 23, 2004 i found a template that Chris Taylor made. It's pretty good and it details what needs to be used. I used this template for my first design. Now i use my own format, which is an amalgamation of Taylor's and other design doc's i've seen. One of the huge perks for working at a game studio is the access to design docs in progress, so you can see how they're formed.
UpdraftKyp Posted September 23, 2004 Author Posted September 23, 2004 i found a template that Chris Taylor made. It's pretty good and it details what needs to be used. I used this template for my first design. Now i use my own format, which is an amalgamation of Taylor's and other design doc's i've seen. One of the huge perks for working at a game studio is the access to design docs in progress, so you can see how they're formed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> you work at a studio?
TentamusDarkblade Posted September 23, 2004 Posted September 23, 2004 yeah, i've been in QA for 3 years and now i'm starting to transition over to design. That's where most of my advice has come from for ya, not my guesses...what's worked for me so far to get here.
UpdraftKyp Posted September 23, 2004 Author Posted September 23, 2004 yeah, i've been in QA for 3 years and now i'm starting to transition over to design. That's where most of my advice has come from for ya, not my guesses...what's worked for me so far to get here. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's kick ass, which studio do you work for?
TentamusDarkblade Posted September 23, 2004 Posted September 23, 2004 i was with the xbox cert team for a bit, then i worked at MS on teh Fable project, now i work at Monolith productions on the Matrix Online project. Monolith is awesome. I work with designers i've grown up reading and playing there games, so it's pretty surreal
UpdraftKyp Posted September 23, 2004 Author Posted September 23, 2004 i was with the xbox cert team for a bit, then i worked at MS on teh Fable project, now i work at Monolith productions on the Matrix Online project. Monolith is awesome. I work with designers i've grown up reading and playing there games, so it's pretty surreal <{POST_SNAPBACK}> that is really awesome, man, just thinking about getting older and working for the lead designer of KOTOR 2... gives me shivers...
TentamusDarkblade Posted September 23, 2004 Posted September 23, 2004 it's kinda funny, but i basically got my start on the Black isle forums. I got interested in Icewind dale 2 and got involved with a fansite with other board members. I got to know Damien Folletto and Tex Yang from BIS and they helped direct me to get into the industry.
UpdraftKyp Posted September 23, 2004 Author Posted September 23, 2004 it's kinda funny, but i basically got my start on the Black isle forums. I got interested in Icewind dale 2 and got involved with a fansite with other board members. I got to know Damien Folletto and Tex Yang from BIS and they helped direct me to get into the industry. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> how old were you then, how old are you now?
TentamusDarkblade Posted September 24, 2004 Posted September 24, 2004 i was 21 and had just got out of the army when i started being a part of the BIS boards. I got my first testing gig when i was 22 and i'm 25 now.
UpdraftKyp Posted September 24, 2004 Author Posted September 24, 2004 crazy!...and you're moving up into the design world of Monolith?
TentamusDarkblade Posted September 24, 2004 Posted September 24, 2004 crazy!...and you're moving up into the design world of Monolith? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> yeah, i just got to do some NPC dialog write ups for our mission system and some NPCs descriptions for the Story bible. I'm hoping for a shot at a junior design position when one comes open in Dec/Jan.
olop the dwarf Posted September 28, 2004 Posted September 28, 2004 Getting into design, is probably the hardest of the development areas (programming, art, design) because there just isn't an easy way to gauge the talent in a prospect and compare them to others. That combined with the fact that there is no shortage of people who want to be designers. So as a prospective designer, you need to do everything short of painting yourself yellow and dancing naked in front of the developer's office to get noticed. Ask anyone in the game industry and they will tell you, when someone finds out they are in the game industry, the next statement is "oh, I got this great idea for a game, this guy is attacked by an army of SPAM, it's a first person shooter, like GTA, but will be cooler because you'll be able to fly into outer space and play with all your friends even if they don't have the game or you don't have any friends!" The truth is, getting your foot in the door is the first step. Get a QA gig, get a scripting gig, get an art gig, get a programming gig, get a systems admin gig, a forum moderator gig. Whatever your skill set is, use it to get a game gig. Then start angling for the design position. If you are looking for FPS games, be a modder. If you are looking for RPG games, make sure you have strong writing skills. Demonstrate that you have the gumption to put in long hours for no pay. That's the other thing, I have a friend who would be a great game designer. Yet, he has no experience, a wife and a house. He will never be a game designer, because he can't sacrifice his style of living to get his foot in the door. It's really a shame, but it's the truth. For game designers, you are going to have to sacrifice money and/or time to get a position. Make mods to show your creativity and your ability to complete a project. Be sure you have stong writing skills and diverse background. Depending on the company, they may require you do ALOT more than write up some design documents. The more value you can bring the better. And lastly, have a positive attitude. If you work hard and have talent, you will find a place. It's like actors. There are a million of people that want to be actors. Only a few are willing to work hard enough and have the talent to actually make it. Olop
TentamusDarkblade Posted September 28, 2004 Posted September 28, 2004 not totally true. I'm working towards a design position by going through QA. I haven't had to sacrifice anything. I make enough to not only support myself and my wife, but to keep us in a beautiful apartment overlooking puget sound. The whole "starving artist" thing is pretty much hype. Sure, you won't get rich this way, but if you're in it for the money then you don't belong anyway. There is no reason why you can't be comfortable while pursuing a career in design. Your other points are solid though. Create mods, do some writing, have something to show you can do the job. The best way to get into design is to design something and be able to show it to someone. The best way to show someone is to already be part of the company. And for the folks who are considering the "game design" courses at a local collage, be prepared to not get hired once you get that degree. They're good for teaching you the fundamentals of design, making contacts, and creating a body of work to show you can do it....but these are all things you can get by interning or getting a QA job and doing alittle reading on your own time.
HalasterBlack Posted September 29, 2004 Posted September 29, 2004 QA has been mentioned multiple times, and I may be a moron for asking (has happened) but what exactly (as opposed to vaguely) is QA.
The Guildmaster Posted September 29, 2004 Posted September 29, 2004 QA is Quality Assurance -- the guys who do the functionality, compatibility and fun-factor testing. Working in QA is a good avenue to move up at a publisher that also has internal development or a large developer that actually has internal QA -- a lot of the guys at Obsidian, in fact almost all the owners of the company, took that route. For smaller developers, it's probably better to put together a really good mod for a popular game. We've been interviewing some folks from the NWN community for our scripter position because their talents are something we can look at tangibly. Offering to work for free or low pay as an intern is another great route. We've been fortunate to work with some really talented folks who joined us as interns.
Aaron Contreras Posted September 29, 2004 Posted September 29, 2004 Offering to work for free or low pay as an intern is another great route. We've been fortunate to work with some really talented folks who joined us as interns. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Whoah - Obsidian has/had internships?
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