Contamination of modern science by politics...

[Whitemithrandir]

As for your last statement unless things have changed since the first chemically resistant strains of crops came out. Are there not certain countries that have restrictions on what crops can be sold for human consumption?  For example when corn was made to resist a chemical didn't  Japan say it could only be sold to there country as animal feed?

 

As I said this is only for my clarification I am not trolling this was something that at one point in time directly affected my job.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There are trade sanctions/restrictions on GM food but not because it's been proven to be unsafe in consumption.

Firstly, it's still a new field, having only a little over 9 years to work out the kinks, and I mean really, who knows if there'll be long term malignant effects in consuming this stuff? So the geneticists are being very careful, and releasing only the strains that they're 100% sure to be safe to the public market.

 

Secondly, GM'ed crops aren't perfect; for every gene changed, there are those effects you want, then there are certain side effects that you don't want. For example, bananas are, well, largely a good source of potassium. However, a certain GM'ed strain of bananas, though able to grow in less tropical regions of the world, has a significantly lowered concentration of potassium (as well as some other nutrients) offset by a higher amount of fiber, an unfortunate side effect of GM'ing. So these bananas tend to not only taste terrible, but don't really offer a very good source of vitamins and minerals. So they're being used as supplement for horse feed. It goes two ways, of course. There are strains of genetically modified hay that taste like sugar cane and is being used as a substitute sugar in medicine for diabetic patients. So the GM strains are being catagorized by their use; Some have lots of vitamins and minerals and is good for you, while others are high on fiber and good for horses.

 

Thirdly, GM'ed crops, like every innovation, faces economic barriers. Certain strains of GM'ed crops are nearly impossible to create, costing millions of dollars for just one acre of product. Others are ridiculously cheap to create, costing as little as a penny per pound. With these ridiculously large price ranges, sanctions and restrictions have to be placed on their trade to

 

1. Balancing agricultural economy; we don't want America to get wheat cheap while Singapore has to pay an arm and a leg for the same wheat.

2. Humanitarian aid; we don't want a large nation like America to buy up all the GM'ed wheat leaving Ethiopia, who REALLY needs it, to continue starving because they can't outbid a large nation like the US.

3. Stop monopolizing corporations; GM techonology is a world effort, and it should stay as such. Putting sanctions on the trade would limit the amount of corporate involvement and keep the distribution fair while still controlled.

 

In fact, GM'ed crop trading is on the top of the UN's ECOSOC agenda. The regulations are changed and revised every year.

[Product of the Cosmos]

I still do not think GM food is appropriate as we do not know all the variables involved. Not knowing all the variables involved, and releasing it to the public is rather careless IMO. I think taking better care of our planet would be a better solution then GM food. :~P

 

 

 

"GIVES itself to the predator? I dunno about you, but back in China, when I had to kill a chicken or turtle so dinner could be served, the thing usually fought like hell. I still have a scar on my left wrist from where a turtle bit me."

 

 

"P.S. As a once avid hunter I have never had game give its self to me, I have always had to work for it because natures most hardwired instinct is survival."

 

This must be a new concept for you guys. Basically what Im saying is the spirit of the animal(s) accept it's fate. As for it's resistance, if you cannot overcome, your not worthy of the named acceptance and blessing. Also I believe that we imprint into the genetic mind of collective species certain things. We have somewhat ripped to shreds the sacred connection in many ways with our carelessness.

 

And ironically next subject, hunting for sport, is rather crude and stupid IMO. I don't think any animal would give you their blessing when you kill them for sport. Someone who hunts and kills humans is thought of as a murderer, I think of hunters for sport in the same mindset.

 

"It's strange how my education supplies fuel for your theories, because so far, the only fuel your theories run on is hot air."

 

You cannot comprehend things outside the norm of Science for this era. One could not count the times one rooted in 'then' modern Science has discounted claims his books do not cover, as false because of a mix of ego and lack of vision and awareness.

 

Although I'm not sure why you would say "It's strange how my education supplies fuel for your theories" when I said the opposite...

 

"Show me how some of your theories can exist and I'll concede."

 

Something like the 'energy' picture technology by the Russians to give one known example(which I'm sure you will go on and on about how it doesn't prove anything, lol). I'd bet if that hadn't been found yet and I claimed it, it would be psuedo Science to you. lol. Everything alive has this energy. A Shamans hand radiates like 10 times the amount of this energy as a normal person. This is one of the first 'official' accounts of documented history that touches upon the subjects I go into.

 

The power of prayer. I am by no means a religious person, actually, I think religion is one of the worst things in humanity, and see it used as an object of control. But the power of prayer has been found to increase the chances of someone sick etc.

 

Since many of the things I talk about are only known behind the most top secret agendas, lets look into the government for hints.

 

President Bush recently is trying to take advantage of the results of prayer by asking that 2.5 million people or more pray for him to win the election. A somewhat baseless claim to you though I'm sure.

 

Until recently the sacred 'Ghost dance' by Native Americans was outlawed by the US government.

 

Back in the 70's some in the know 'hippies' got the idea to stand on all 5 corners of the pentagon, and "send love" into it. Within 5 minutes black helicopters, and agents arrest them. It is now officially illegal to have a group stand the 5 corners of the US military building, the pentagon(the most powerful shape of sacred geometry to my knowledge, the 5 pointed star) and send energy into it.

 

 

 

Numerous governments have in the last 50 years realized researching and developing these often discounted subjects will benefit them.

 

"The Scientific approach will also be tried with telepathy, UFO's, and other parapsychological and occult phenomena, long ignored but gaining Scientific credibility of late in the scientific community."

 

http://www.foia.cia.gov/docs/DOC_000011234...112348_0001.gif

 

Most often telepathy occurs spontaneously in incidents of crisis where a relative or friend has been injured or killed in an accident. An individual is aware of the danger to the other person from a distance. Such information seems to come in different forms as in thought fragments, like something is wrong; in dreams, visions, hallucinations, mental images, in clairaudience, or in words that pop into the mind.

 

Also, telepathy is a 2 way road. As you brought up a guy that will give someone a million dollars if they can read his mind. Well that doesn't work. Thats like saying have sex with someone who hates you without rape(plz excuse my rather crude example). It's highly unlikely. But I can see how a scam like that would convince you telepathy isn't real.. As you literally know nothing about it personally. So it seems right.

 

Mind control. Recently through the FOIA the CIA was forced to release 18,000 pages of documents on their investigation of mind control. After I review the ridiculous amount released(obviously to make the valid info harder to find) I'll make sure to post what I find.

 

 

 

Including governments interest and success in research. Others are picking it up in mainstream as well.

http://moebius.psy.ed.ac.uk/index.php3?text=1

University of Edinburg offers a course in parapsychology.

 

By the year 2020 I'd bet many Universities across the world will be realizing the value and validity of such courses. As we are in the infant stages of 'official' study of this subject. And it will be proven to be found more and more credible as time passes. You write off my claims as an attempt to deal with a 'boring' world. lol. Well, I dont blame you I guess.. But I experience these things personally. And that is how I know. But I dont expect you to buy into that, esspecially since you have been overly presumtious. Although you seem intelligent, I feel you are a very stubborn person when it comes to backtracking.

 

 

A quote from one of the British professors who teach parapsychology that describes you rather well mith:

 

"One concrete way the Scientist applies the scientific epistemology is to cultivate an attitude of skepticism. I do not mean the attitude of many critics of parapsychology, which is not true skepticism but rather an overly credulous attitude towards their own pet interpretations of psychic phenomena."

 

Prana. Prana is the hindu word describing an element of what I speak of. It is the energy in everything. It is in the air, but also is in all places air cannot reach. We draw in prana more clearly and easily through our breathing then any other form according to the Hindus. And I have come acrossed some things that give evidence of this.

 

About 6 months ago I was given by a master who I found(or who found me), a sacred teaching of methods of breathing passed on from person to person. One learns it, and passes it on to one worthy after ten years or more. Studying these methods of breathing I have noticed some very profound things. But, of course, I cannot give you evidence as I will be breaking a promise. In his words "Dogs do not deserve the truth and the benefits of such." He was rather harsh as I wouldn't say your a dog, more of a arrogant modern Scientist, but I translate that into 'the ignorant do not deserve the truth'. So I guess chalk that up under 'ya right your just lying' as I bet most would.. lol.. Presumable anyway. I probably would too.

 

Although mainstream you can pick up a book called 'Science of Breath' published by the Yogi Society. This will give you some tips if anyone wants to look into this further.

 

I'm rather tired. I'll probably pick this up later with more.

[Dakoth]

And ironically next subject, hunting for sport, is rather crude and stupid IMO. I don't think any animal would give you their blessing when you kill them for sport. Someone who hunts and kills humans is thought of as a murderer, I think of hunters for sport in the same mindset.

 

See now you have went and made me mad :angry: , and it is for the reason Taks usually rebuts your statements of fact. You did no checking into the facts at all you assumed. I never once said I hunted for sport you assume I did because that is what most people do. I have eaten many meats goose, duck, raccoon, muscrat, squirrel, deer, and carp to name a few all things my family has hunted. Since me and my wife are in a better position than my mother and father were when we got married I don't see the pressing need to hunt any more. The other thing is while your bleeding heart is in the right place people like you tend to forget Sport hunting does serve a purpose. You see as people moved west they removed all the top predators( wolves and cougers) because they would kill domesticated livestock. So now we as humans fill the top predator position to keep populations in check.

 

Now normally I would not have pointed this out but since you angered me I feel argumentetive.

 

 

I still do not think GM food is appropriate as we do not know all the variables involved. Not knowing all the variables involved, and releasing it to the public is rather careless IMO. I think taking better care of our planet would be a better solution then GM food. :~P

 

I pointed out earlier in this thread that humans have genetically manipulated all of its domesticated animals and plants for at least a 1000 years or more. It was a process called selective breeding. I will say it again I find it funny you have no problem eating genetically altered food until it is done in a more scientific way.

[deganawida]

To support the domestication argument, corn has been modified so much that no one knows what the original plant was.

[Product of the Cosmos]

And ironically next subject, hunting for sport, is rather crude and stupid IMO. I don't think any animal would give you their blessing when you kill them for sport. Someone who hunts and kills humans is thought of as a murderer, I think of hunters for sport in the same mindset.

 

See now you have went and made me mad :angry: , and it is for the reason Taks usually rebuts your statements of fact. You did no checking into the facts at all you assumed. I never once said I hunted for sport you assume I did because that is what most people do. I have eaten many meats goose, duck, raccoon, muscrat, squirrel, deer, and carp to name a few all things my family has hunted. Since me and my wife are in a better position than my mother and father were when we got married I don't see the pressing need to hunt any more. The other thing is while your bleeding heart is in the right place people like you tend to forget Sport hunting does serve a purpose. You see as people moved west they removed all the top predators( wolves and cougers) because they would kill domesticated livestock. So now we as humans fill the top predator position to keep populations in check.

 

Now normally I would not have pointed this out but since you angered me I feel argumentetive.

 

 

I still do not think GM food is appropriate as we do not know all the variables involved. Not knowing all the variables involved, and releasing it to the public is rather careless IMO. I think taking better care of our planet would be a better solution then GM food. :~P

 

I pointed out earlier in this thread that humans have genetically manipulated all of its domesticated animals and plants for at least a 1000 years or more. It was a process called selective breeding. I will say it again I find it funny you have no problem eating genetically altered food until it is done in a more scientific way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Firstly I didnt say you hunted for sport. Reason why I said ironically is because I think killing for fun has been a key factor to the deteororation of certain connections as I said before hand.

 

 

And secondly, if we put 2 animals in the same cage, and they breed, that is, IMO, very different then going in and messing with the DNA ourselves. Sure we were a part of the breeding, but the DNA and things we do not know of intertwine like they would have eventually in a matter of time anyway.

 

Scientific DNA modification is very different to me compared to 'helped out' natural way of fusing DNA.

 

To support the domestication argument, corn has been modified so much that no one knows what the original plant was.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Funny, corn and tomatoes dont taste good to me anymore.(well corn does sometimes, but not often). I used to LOVE corn, and tomatoes weren't thatbad. Now I can't stand tomatoes...

[Whitemithrandir]

I still do not think GM food is appropriate as we do not know all the variables involved.  Not knowing all the variables involved, and releasing it to the public is rather careless IMO.  I think taking better care of our planet would be a better solution then GM food. :~P

 

Do you now. Actually, all released GM products have met with FDA approval and I'm sure they know a lot more about the technology than you or I do.

 

You cannot comprehend things outside the norm of Science for this era.  One could not count the times one rooted in 'then' modern Science has discounted claims his books do not cover, as false because of a mix of ego and lack of vision and awareness.

 

Name one claim that has substantiated when clearly it violates scientific principles. There are a number of such "theories" and "prophecies" throughout history. Nostrodamus, Anticithus, Red Star, etc, etc. Name one of these theorests that has come to any amount of fruition.

 

Something like the 'energy' picture technology by the Russians to give one known example(which I'm sure you will go on and on about how it doesn't prove anything, lol).

 

Google turns up nothing. What are you talking about?

 

A Shamans hand radiates like 10 times the amount of this energy as a normal person.  This is one of the first 'official' accounts of documented history that touches upon the subjects I go into.

 

His hand "radiates" energy huh. Pray tell, what exactly does this energy *do*? Or for that matter, who can see it or detect it? What sort of energy is it? I can claim my pinky radiates energy too, but that would be a lie.

 

The power of prayer.  I am by no means a religious person, actually, I think religion is one of the worst things in humanity, and see it used as an object of control.  But the power of prayer has been found to increase the chances of someone sick etc.

 

Really. That's very strange.

 

It wouldn't be anything like http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/001283.html would it?

 

Since many of the things I talk about are only known behind the most top secret agendas...

 

OMG ARE YOU TEH SEKRAT GOVERNMENT AGENT MAN?

 

lets look into the government for hints.

 

  President Bush recently is trying to take advantage of the results of prayer by asking that 2.5 million people or more pray for him to win the election.  A somewhat baseless claim to you though I'm sure.

 

No, it's true that Bush is asking 2.5 million people to pray for his win... I fail to see how this substantiates prayer as a substitute for medicine.

 

Until recently the sacred 'Ghost dance' by Native Americans was outlawed by the US government.

 

Until recently, the Chinese government outlawed open march protests. Gee, I guess picket protesting is a mystic power too. No. Ghost dances is a social activity among native americans. The government feared a congregation of so many Indians would lead to rebellion. Hence the ban. Read history sometime, will ya?

 

Back in the 70's some in the know 'hippies' got the idea to stand on all 5 corners of the pentagon, and "send love" into it.  Within 5 minutes black helicopters, and agents arrest them.  It is now officially illegal to have a group stand the 5 corners of the US military building, the pentagon(the most powerful shape of sacred geometry to my knowledge, the 5 pointed star) and send energy into it. 

 

Hey, gee, if 5 drug addicts surrounded my home taking their clothes off and shouting stuff I'd call the cops too. Look, it's the PENTAGON building, a core governmental institute of the US. WTF do you expect the government to do? Clap? Nevermind the hippies could be carrying bombs inside their tie dye shirts. In any other country, if some guys started doing weird stuff around a central government institute, they'd BE SHOT.

 

Numerous governments have in the last 50 years realized researching and developing these often discounted subjects will benefit them.

 

What?

 

"The Scientific approach will also be tried with telepathy, UFO's, and other parapsychological and occult phenomena, long ignored but gaining Scientific credibility of late in the scientific community."

 

http://www.foia.cia.gov/docs/DOC_000011234...112348_0001.gif

 

Most often telepathy occurs spontaneously in incidents of crisis where a relative or friend has been injured or killed in an accident. An individual is aware of the danger to the other person from a distance. Such information seems to come in different forms as in thought fragments, like something is wrong; in dreams, visions, hallucinations, mental images, in clairaudience, or in words that pop into the mind.

 

I don't consider telepathy to be a neccessary pseudoscience, as I've stated MANY TIMES in your other threads. Once again, there are differences between hoaxes and actual research. Mrs. Cleo is clearly a hoax. Sub-neural Tunneling Theory is not. It's sketchy, yes, but it's founded on solid physics.

 

Also, telepathy is a 2 way road.  As you brought up a guy that will give someone a million dollars if they can read his mind.  Well that doesn't work.  Thats like saying have sex with someone who hates you without rape(plz excuse my rather crude example).  It's highly unlikely.  But I can see how a scam like that would convince you telepathy isn't real.. As you literally know nothing about it personally.  So it seems right.

 

I fail to understand your example. Mind reading isn't considered telepathy by modern science, by the way. Modern theories on telepathy focuses on pre-recognition. Mind-reading without aid has long been deemed an impossibility since we think in analog.

 

Mind control.  Recently through the FOIA the CIA was forced to release 18,000 pages of documents on their investigation of mind control.  After I review the ridiculous amount released(obviously to make the valid info harder to find) I'll make sure to post what I find.

 

By the year 2020 I'd bet many Universities across the world will be realizing the value and validity of such courses.  As we are in the infant stages of 'official' study of this subject.  And it will be proven to be found more and more credible as time passes. 

 

"infant stages"? Buddy, the NAZI's had paranormal divisions. Hell, screw the NAZI's, there were serious paranormal research groups dating back to GALILEO'S time (against church doctrine of course). The Lynx society (of which Galileo was a part of) released manuscripts on parascience. Hey, guess what? 5 centuries later, NOTHING. Nuh uh, not a damn thing.

 

You write off my claims as an attempt to deal with a 'boring' world.  lol.  Well, I dont blame you I guess.. But I experience these things personally.  And that is how I know.  But I dont expect you to buy into that, esspecially since you have been overly presumtious.  Although you seem intelligent, I feel you are a very stubborn person when it comes to backtracking.

 

Hey, I've had personal experiences too. Nearly everyone's had paranormal experiences in their lives. The difference between you and I is, whereas you go looking for fanciful explainations which fit almost *too* well to your experiences but without the neccessary buttress of reason behind it to create an entire "science" out of nothing, while I persue a life of reason rooted in 5000 years of human knowledge and observations to further the future. You're taking the easy, but sadly incorrect, way out.

 

A quote from one of the British professors who teach parapsychology that describes you rather well mith:

 

"One concrete way the Scientist applies the scientific epistemology is to cultivate an attitude of skepticism.  I do not mean the attitude of many critics of parapsychology, which is not true skepticism but rather an overly credulous attitude towards their own pet interpretations of psychic phenomena."

 

That's a quote from John Palmer, right? It defintely sounds like him. Yeah, he spoke here for our solar car foundation, as he has a friend on the team (nephew, I think?) who's a good friend of mine. I acutally had dinner in the same ballroom as him when I went to duke university for a seminar. We shared a few words, and he called me a "nice kid" which I remember getting somewhat irate about. He's a good professor, or so I hear from his students, and certainly a talented researcher. Do you happen to know him?

 

 

Prana.  Prana is the hindu word describing an element of what I speak of.  It is the energy in everything.  It is in the air, but also is in all places air cannot reach.  We draw in prana more clearly and easily through our breathing then any other form according to the Hindus.  And I have come acrossed some things that give evidence of this.

 

See, this is the point. Dr. Palmer never mentioned prana ANYWHERE in any of his lectures or seminars, or even a sort of intangible energy. He's a scientist who uses the scientific method in an obscure field. Prana would be the PERFECT explaination for most of his theories and publications and would be his strongest support, but he doesn't even mention it. This is because he knows the difference between philosophy and science, and HE WON'T TAKE THE EASY WAY OUT! Instead, his publications are filled with concrete examples and data, that although don't support his theories very well, still presents interesting new views to the community. I suggest you read his latest book about psychological algorithms in solitaire.

 

About 6 months ago I was given by a master who I found(or who found me), a sacred teaching of methods of breathing passed on from person to person.  One learns it, and passes it on to one worthy after ten years or more.  Studying these methods of breathing I have noticed some very profound things.  But, of course, I cannot give you evidence as I will be breaking a promise. 

 

Congratulations on your religion. Tell dalai lama I said Hi.

 

In his words "Dogs do not deserve the truth and the benefits of such." 

 

I agree. Dogs aren't as intelligent as we are and certainly won't know the truth if you yell it in its ear. It'll just bark and waggle its tail happily waiting for you to throw the stick. So how does this pertain to me?

 

He was rather harsh as I wouldn't say your a dog, more of a arrogant modern Scientist, but I translate that into 'the ignorant do not deserve the truth'.

 

Acutally, if you want to take the quote less literally, the "dog" would probably mean you: someone who believes in everything he hears just because it happens to explain something that occured without looking for evidences of concrete truth. The ignorant one here is you.

 

  I'm rather tired.  I'll probably pick this up later with more.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Please do. I'm here all day.

 

Got any more quotes you'd like me to rip apart?

[Dakoth]

And secondly, if we put 2 animals in the same cage, and they breed, that is, IMO, very different then going in and messing with the DNA ourselves. Sure we were a part of the breeding, but the DNA and things we do not know of intertwine like they would have eventually in a matter of time anyway.

 

Scientific DNA modification is very different to me compared to 'helped out' natural way of fusing DNA

 

Ah the typical stance of someone like you. See now you are splitting hairs and giving opinions to justify it. As I said before they are both a means to an end, and they both involve genetic manipulation. One you are ok with the other you are not seems odd to me others might agree with you though.

 

Funny, corn and tomatoes dont taste good to me anymore.(well corn does sometimes, but not often). I used to LOVE corn, and tomatoes weren't thatbad. Now I can't stand tomatoes

 

Thats odd when did tomatoes start to taste bad to you? They have been selectively breed for many years to be some what drought resistant. What kind of corn tastes bad to you now? You know there are 2 different kinds of corn right? There is sweet corn normally ment to be ate right off the plant after it is cooked, and usually tastes pretty good. Then there is field corn which tastes horrible off the plant, because it is ment for processing before being consumed.

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"In any other country, if some guys started doing weird stuff around a central government institute, they'd BE SHOT."

 

Dude, you really need to see a bit more of the world if you really believe that to be true.

[Product of the Cosmos]

"Do you now. Actually, all released GM products have met with FDA approval and I'm sure they know a lot more about the technology than you or I do."

 

lol, there are plenty of things passed by the FDA that are known to be bad. I'm sure they know more about technology then I. But the more some people know the more ignorant they get it seems. I don't see the FDA approving it as any type of reason to say it's alright. I tend to lean to the thought that we don't know very much about genetics. It wasn't but a few years ago that we even mapped out our own DNA physical structure.

 

"Name one claim that has substantiated when clearly it violates scientific principles. There are a number of such "theories" and "prophecies" throughout history. Nostrodamus, Anticithus, Red Star, etc, etc. Name one of these theorests that has come to any amount of fruition."

 

My claims do not violate scientific principles, they just aren't explained by them. Unless you think the ones we know of are all thats out there, they do not violate scientific principles.

 

As for Nostradamus etc... His 'prophecies' are rather vague and could fit to a number of things. Although the 9-11 one was pretty eery. That doesn't disprove or prove anything.

One legend comes to mind though. The Hopi, and the Tibetans.

 

I'm not 100% clear on the exact wording as it was a very long time ago I was reading it. But the myth goes of the Hopi something along the lines of:'there will come a time when brothers from the mountainous east will be persecuted in their land'.

 

While the Tibetan goes: 'Brothers from the west will be displaced from their land by white invaders'.

 

I hope dega knows its exact wording, as I know I didnt get it right. But it was right on point as a prediction.

 

 

"Google turns up nothing. What are you talking about?"

 

changing the files to jpg and uploading right now

 

"His hand "radiates" energy huh. Pray tell, what exactly does this energy *do*? Or for that matter, who can see it or detect it? What sort of energy is it? I can claim my pinky radiates energy too, but that would be a lie."

 

lol. A lie is a deception. More like it would be something that you wouldn't know.

As for what does it do? lol. I dont know. But you can see it with the naked eye if you have the right light settings and focus in every living thing.

 

*link to site saying religious prayer is a hoax or something like that*

 

I'm not looking into that right now. Only reason I'm still awake is I just got a CD delivered and I want to listen to it. I'll check it when I get up if I have the time..

 

"OMG ARE YOU TEH SEKRAT GOVERNMENT AGENT MAN?"

 

lol...

 

"No, it's true that Bush is asking 2.5 million people to pray for his win... I fail to see how this substantiates prayer as a substitute for medicine."

 

Subtle hints is all that was meant for. The power of collective focus is very strong. Esspecially when derived from certain faith based(at this time anyway) multipliers.

 

"Until recently, the Chinese government outlawed open march protests. Gee, I guess picket protesting is a mystic power too. No. Ghost dances is a social activity among native americans. The government feared a congregation of so many Indians would lead to rebellion. Hence the ban. Read history sometime, will ya?"

 

Read history?! How about realize history is false a lot of the time! The ghost dance was the most sacred of rituals by the Native Americans. Social activety, yes. Limited to, no.

 

"Hey, gee, if 5 drug addicts surrounded my home taking their clothes off and shouting stuff I'd call the cops too. Look, it's the PENTAGON building, a core governmental institute of the US. WTF do you expect the government to do? Clap? Nevermind the hippies could be carrying bombs inside their tie dye shirts. In any other country, if some guys started doing weird stuff around a central government institute, they'd BE SHOT."

 

lol. One can try to come up with an explanation for anything. But hear me out. The power of certain geometry for focusing and harnessing this energy is inconcievable. It's no coincidence every secret society and large power groups how have uncommon knowledge from Free-Masons, Illuminati, Religion, Ancient Egypt, US government and others use this geometry in their architecture. The reason why the pentagon is so strong is it multiplies within, and outside itself an infinite amount. But I'm guessing to you they are just shapes you had to learn in a math class. lol. To each their own I guess.

 

"What?"

 

LOL!

 

"I don't consider telepathy to be a neccessary pseudoscience, as I've stated MANY TIMES in your other threads. Once again, there are differences between hoaxes and actual research. Mrs. Cleo is clearly a hoax. Sub-neural Tunneling Theory is not. It's sketchy, yes, but it's founded on solid physics."

 

I agree. Mis-cleo is clearly a hoax. So telepathy is not pseudo Science in your view now eh? lol.

 

""infant stages"? Buddy, the NAZI's had paranormal divisions. Hell, screw the NAZI's, there were serious paranormal research groups dating back to GALILEO'S time (against church doctrine of course). The Lynx society (of which Galileo was a part of) released manuscripts on parascience. Hey, guess what? 5 centuries later, NOTHING. Nuh uh, not a damn thing."

 

You did not read 'official', as many events in our history have been supressed for valid reasons by those in power.

 

"As we are in the infant stages of 'official' study of this subject."

 

Official as in, what we find, is not confined to a hierarhcy of power mongers who will definetly not share with the world.

 

"Hey, I've had personal experiences too. Nearly everyone's had paranormal experiences in their lives. The difference between you and I is"

 

Theres your mistake. Your not me. You clearly agree with that. So how would you KNOW what the difference is? That is ego-driven and logic clouded rant, even if your right, you wouldn't know for sure. So you put yourself at fault.

 

"The difference between you and I is, whereas you go looking for fanciful explainations which fit almost *too* well to your experiences but without the neccessary buttress of reason behind it to create an entire "science" out of nothing, while I persue a life of reason rooted in 5000 years of human knowledge and observations to further the future. You're taking the easy, but sadly incorrect, way out."

 

Your judgements are not that of a wise person. Of course your entitled to your opinion, but when you base things on fact so much... You clearly are aware that you do not know my existance, and you are not consciously me. So only a fool would claim things he does not know to be true.

 

"That's a quote from John Palmer, right? Do you happen to know him?"

 

No not personally.

 

"See, this is the point. Dr. Palmer never mentioned prana ANYWHERE in any of his lectures or seminars, or even a sort of intangible energy. He's a scientist who uses the scientific method in an obscure field. Prana would be the PERFECT explaination for most of his theories and publications and would be his strongest support, but he doesn't even mention it. This is because he knows the difference between philosophy and science, and HE WON'T TAKE THE EASY WAY OUT! Instead, his publications are filled with concrete examples and data, that although don't support his theories very well, still presents interesting new views to the community. I suggest you read his latest book about psychological algorithms in solitaire."

 

I wasn't aware Dr. Palmer was the 'all knowing God'. lol. All jokes aside.

 

If its that perfect for his theories, maybe you should mention it to him.

 

Maybe he wants to seem original? *shrugs*

 

There is need a balance of concrete Scientists, and 'mystics' if you will to pioneer the next century some of the most amazing discoveries we will make in our entire existance on this planet. As sometime this century the Scientific discovery of the soul will act as a fuse for Science and Religion, what seemed like polar opposites will be one of the same in time. Once the 2 merge the you and I types will be working hand in hand This will mark the Age of Enlightenment my friend. I sincerely hope you play a Scientific role in helping this manifest as I am surely playing a role in my part

 

"Congratulations on your religion. Tell dalai lama I said Hi."

 

It's not a religion, but methods to use the instrument I have been provided for more efficiency. You probably seethe body as you? Well I see it as an instrument for what we are capable of. I dont have a religion as of yet, but, as growing draft probabilities emerge, I'll surely be registering my own religion, I already have a lot of the scriptures written up actually

 

"I agree. Dogs aren't as intelligent as we are and certainly won't know the truth if you yell it in its ear. It'll just bark and waggle its tail happily waiting for you to throw the stick. So how does this pertain to me?"

 

 

"Acutally, if you want to take the quote less literally, the "dog" would probably mean you: someone who believes in everything he hears just because it happens to explain something that occured without looking for evidences of concrete truth. The ignorant one here is you."

 

blahhhhhh Time will tell Remember what I said. When the time comes. Remember me.

 

"Please do. I'm here all day.

 

Got any more quotes you'd like me to rip apart?"

 

Dig in. Your pretty good at giving an opposing point. But you still havent proved a single thing. Niether have I. Time will tell who was right.

[Product of the Cosmos]

And secondly, if we put 2 animals in the same cage, and they breed, that is, IMO, very different then going in and messing with the DNA ourselves. Sure we were a part of the breeding, but the DNA and things we do not know of intertwine like they would have eventually in a matter of time anyway.

 

Scientific DNA modification is very different to me compared to 'helped out' natural way of fusing DNA

 

Ah the typical stance of someone like you. See now you are splitting hairs and giving opinions to justify it. As I said before they are both a means to an end, and they both involve genetic manipulation. One you are ok with the other you are not seems odd to me others might agree with you though.

 

Funny, corn and tomatoes dont taste good to me anymore.(well corn does sometimes, but not often). I used to LOVE corn, and tomatoes weren't thatbad. Now I can't stand tomatoes

 

Thats odd when did tomatoes start to taste bad to you? They have been selectively breed for many years to be some what drought resistant. What kind of corn tastes bad to you now? You know there are 2 different kinds of corn right? There is sweet corn normally ment to be ate right off the plant after it is cooked, and usually tastes pretty good. Then there is field corn which tastes horrible off the plant, because it is ment for processing before being consumed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Do you not see the difference between something that would happen naturally with time anyway, and genetic alteration?

[Aegeri]

Ah the typical stance of someone like you. See now you are splitting hairs and giving opinions to justify it. As I said before they are both a means to an end, and they both involve genetic manipulation. One you are ok with the other you are not seems odd to me others might agree with you though.

 

The problem you will find with the general public, is they don't get the idea that DNA is JUST DNA. There is NO such thing as 'frog DNA', 'Elk DNA' etc. It is just pretty much all the same molecule that has been conserved throughout evolution and ends up doing a pretty similar job.

 

I don't see the FDA approving it as any type of reason to say it's alright. I tend to lean to the thought that we don't know very much about genetics.

 

Actually we know ****loads, more than you are probably even remotely aware of. What can be done with genetics today, eclipses what knowledge we had even 5 years ago. The main risk to people from any GE product is fairly straight forward, and well understood anyway. Essentially the new protein may be allergenic, and so may make that GE variety unsafe to eat for a small minority of people. However, these problems never really come up at all, except with already known allergens such as from peanuts (which we are ironically using genetics to find out WHY they are bad).

 

For the most part however, I'm still wanting a SINGLE SENSIBLE explanation or point that would give a GOOD reason why a GE variety would be suddenly rendered unsafe to eat.

 

Do you not see the difference between something that would happen naturally with time anyway, and genetic alteration?

 

What is your evidence that organisms cannot exchange DNA anyway?

[Product of the Cosmos]

"Google turns up nothing. What are you talking about?"

 

changing the files to jpg and uploading right now:

 

Here they are. Well. the ones I could find in a quick search anyway.

 

 

 

 

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"For the most part however, I'm still wanting a SINGLE SENSIBLE explanation or point that would give a GOOD reason why a GE variety would be suddenly rendered unsafe to eat."

 

Well, AFAIK, some of the stuff we eat have small quantities of poisonous substances in them, and I guess technically genetic manipulation could accidentally lead into larger quantities of those poisons. That could happen with crossbreeding, too, I think.

 

Not much else there that I can think of, though.

 

edit: C'mon, Potty, give me ten minutes and I could have done that in Photoshop myself.

[Product of the Cosmos]

"Actually we know ****loads, more than you are probably even remotely aware of. What can be done with genetics today, eclipses what knowledge we had even 5 years ago."

 

Funny.. You know. We learn new things about genetics literally every day. Quite common is the thought we know alot when what we know is all we know. And Our scale of a lot is only based on what we know. Some fail to imagine. And I lean towards us not being able to imagine in full what actually is.

 

"The problem you will find with the general public, is they don't get the idea that DNA is JUST DNA."

 

Funny. Thats what I would say about many of the opposite side.. They figure DNA, is JUST DNA. LOL. Funny how stuff like that works.

 

 

"edit: C'mon, Potty, give me ten minutes and I could have done that in Photoshop myself."

 

As for the slanderous name. No need for it. And this is a known technology. Kirlian developed it.

[Aegeri]

Funny. Thats what I would say about many of the opposite side.. They figure DNA, is JUST DNA. LOL. Funny how stuff like that works

 

Except you've got a slight problem, I can construct DNA entirely without needing an organism at all. It can have the same sequence and function as any other strand that came from a living organism. In fact, some genes from entirely different organims, even from primitive ones like anthozoans, will build the same structures when placed into an entirely different animal.

 

Again, there is no such thing as DNA belonging to any specific organism, it doesn't.

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"And this is a known technology."

 

And what exactly is "this"? Russian "energy picture tech"?

[Aegeri]

"And this is a known technology."

 

And what exactly is "this"? Russian "energy picture tech"?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I forget what they were doing, but they built a light that can pick up these odd luminescent patterns on various things they can stick onto it.

 

Not pictured by him, obviously, is the picture of a rock with a similar pattern around it.

[Product of the Cosmos]

Funny. Thats what I would say about many of the opposite side.. They figure DNA, is JUST DNA. LOL. Funny how stuff like that works

 

Except you've got a slight problem, I can construct DNA entirely without needing an organism at all. It can have the same sequence and function as any other strand that came from a living organism. In fact, some genes from entirely different organims, even from primitive ones like anthozoans, will build the same structures when placed into an entirely different animal.

 

Again, there is no such thing as DNA belonging to any specific organism, it doesn't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Once agian. you talk like you consciously engineered this masterpiece of a universe(multiverse). Imagine all the variables from billions of years of evolution for one.

 

Secondly, saying you understand one thing does not mean you understand the whole. The whole is what we are effecting based on the knowedge we have of one. Can you not understand?

 

"I can construct DNA entirely without needing an organism at all. It can have the same sequence and function as any other strand that came from a living organism."

 

IMO there is more to a being then DNA. The DNA is like the 'blueprint' for a house. A 'house'(body) is not a 'functional' place without its inhabitants(spirit,soul,energy,aura).

 

"Not pictured by him, obviously, is the picture of a rock with a similar pattern around it."

 

A rock had a very small amount of energy yes. About the same amount as microwaved food. Raw organic veges and fruits had high amounts of energy. A Common hand had a reg amount of energy, a healers hand has a large amount. When such is seen with the naked eye, its like static. You can see static everywhere if you pay attention. But the static generated by life is concentrated higher. Although I have better then 20/20 vision, and I am a night person, so I have better night vision then most..

 

So some may be unfortunate as to not be able to see it. But think of it this way.. If you have crappy eyesight, you can know when your in a lucid dreaming state when you see things clearly!! This is by far the easiest way to gain control of your dreams and be aware you are in a lucid state.

[Dakoth]

Once agian. you talk like you consciously engineered this masterpiece of a universe(multiverse). Imagine all the variables from billions of years of evolution for one.

 

Heh you obviously have no idea how selective breeding works do you? Selective breeding takes many years to accomplish as White said, some times many generations. The process goes a little like this you start off with 2 animals that have the traits you desire. After they produce offspring you cull the ones out that don't have the traits you desire and start over. After many generations you are normally left with the traits you desire as the dominate trait, meaning it is the one that normally shows up in the offspring. Can a recessive trait pop up every once in a while? Yes but it is not very often, and from what I understand that can happen to second generation GMed plants also.

 

You see Product the only thing scientist actually bring to the table is the ability to do it faster and more reliably. While I will give you the point I don't belive science can explain everything at this point in time like why we only use something like 20% of our brain or how a big explosion created the whole universe. I do belive in the things science has shown us as fact with tangible experiments. Something you seem to not care about.

 

Do you not see the difference between something that would happen naturally with time anyway, and genetic alteration?

 

As you were so fond of saying to White and the others

Your judgements are not that of a wise person.  So only a fool would claim things he does not know to be true.

[Phosphor]

Regarding Kirlian's photography, here's some info.

 

From http://skepdic.com/kirlian.html :

"In 1939, Semyon Kirlian discovered by accident that if an object on akirlian butterfly digigraph by R. Carroll photographic plate is subjected to a high-voltage electric field, an image is created on the plate. The image looks like a colored halo or coronal discharge. This image is said to be a physical manifestation of the spiritual aura or "life force" which allegedly surrounds each living thing.

 

Allegedly, this special method of "photographing" objects is a gateway to the paranormal world of auras. Actually, what is recorded is due to quite natural phenomena such as pressure, electrical grounding, humidity and temperature. Changes in moisture (which may reflect changes in emotions), barometric pressure, and voltage, among other things, will produce different 'auras'.

 

Living things...are moist. When the electricity enters the living object, it produces an area of gas ionization around the photographed object, assuming moisture is present on the object. This moisture is transferred from the subject to the emulsion surface of the photographic film and causes an alternation of the electric charge pattern on the film. If a photograph is taken in a vacuum, where no ionized gas is present, no Kirlian image appears. If the Kirlian image were due to some paranormal fundamental living energy field, it should not disappear in a simple vacuum (Hines).

 

There have even been claims of Kirlian photography being able to capture "phantom limbs," e.g., when a leaf is placed on the plate and then torn in half and "photographed," the whole leaf shows up in the picture. This is not due to paranormal forces, however, but to fraud or to residues left from the initial impression of the whole leaf."

 

From http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles...hotography.html :

"A photographic process that captures the auras or biofields of persons or objects within the photograph. The technique involves the photographing of subjects in the pressence of a high-frequency, high-voltage, low-amperage-electrical field, which display glowing, multicolored emanations known as auras or biofields.

 

The process of Kirlian photography is named after Seymon Kirlian, an amateur inventor and electrician of Krasnodar, Russia, who pioneered the first efforts on the process in the early 1940s. Even thought the process has produced results it still is controversial.

 

There seems to be no evidence that Kirlian photography is a paranormal phenomenon. Some experimenters think it reveals a physical form of psychic energy. Another theory is that it reveals the etheric body, one of the layers of the aura thought to permeate all animate objects. The understanding of this latter aspect of the process gives rise to the prospects of beneficial benefits of gaining significant insights in medicine, psychology, psychic healing, psi, and dowsing. Critics repudiate the process by saying that it shows nothing more that than electricity being discharged which can be produced under certain conditions.

 

Experiments in photographing objects in electrical fields, prior to Kirlian, was called "electrography" or "electrographic photography." Little value was seen in the process, so scant attention was given to it. Electrographic photographs were exhibited as early as 1898 by the Russian Yakov Narkevich Yokdo (also given as Todko. Research in the fields was published by a Czech, B. Narvratil, also in the early 1900s. The published evidence of photographs of leaves coronas was presents by two Czechs, S. Pratt and J. Schlemmer, in 1939.

 

The initial Kirlian experiments were simple. In his first experiment Kirlian just photographed his hand, noting a strange orange glow radiating from the fingertips. His wife Valentina was a biologist, and together they photographed both animate and inanimate objects. Over the years, they refined their equipment and graduated from back and white to colored photography.

 

The principle of Kirlian photography, as well as all electrography, is the corona discharge phenomenon, that takes place when an electrically grounded object discharges sparks between itself and an electrode generating the electrical field. When these sparks are captured on film they give the appearance of coronas of light. These discharges can be affected by temperature, moisture, pressure, or other environmental factors. Several Kirlian techniques have been developed, but the basic ones generally employ a Tesla coil connected to a metal plate. The process is similar to the one which occurs in nature, when electrical conditions in the atmosphere produce luminescences, auras, such as St. Elmo's fire.

 

Kirlian's work mainly gained attention in the west during the 1960. Its reception was mixed. However, scientist met on the process at Alma Ata in 1966. Biophysicist Viktor Adamenko theorized that the energy field was the "cold emission of electrons," and the patterns they formed might suggest new information concerning the life processes od animate objects. One finding of Adamenko and other Soviet scientists was that the biological energies of human beings were brightest at 700 points on the body which concurs with Chinese acupuncture.

 

There is evidence that Kirlan photographs do give indications of the health and emotional changes in living things by changes in the brightness, color, and patterns of light. At the University of California Center for Health Sciences, a plant's leaf showed changes when being approached by a human hand and pricked. Even when part of the leaf was cut off, the glowing portion of the amputated portion still appeared on film.

 

Other researchers have found that changes in the emotional conditions of humans can be detected by changes in the brightness, color and formation patterns in the photographs. When psychic healers and the psychokinetic metal-bender Uri Geller were photographed flares of light were seen streaming from their fingertips as they performed their respective activities.

 

Many Kirlain enthusiasts declare that the leaf phenomenon is evidence for the existence of an etheric body. But, critics state the phenomenon completely disproves Kirlin photography. The latter contention is that "If the method truly photographed a biofield, then the aura should disappear when an organism dies. The effect is produced solely by a high-voltage electric field breakdown of air molecules between two condenser plates."

 

Supporters of Kirlain photography do, however, foresee its applications in diagnostic medicine. It has been used in the detection of cancer with only a sporadic success rate. Some envision that it will eventually be connected to computerized tomography (CT) scanners (advanced versions of axial tomography or CAT scanners, which utilize a thin beam of X-rays to photograph an object from 360 degrees) and magnetic resonance imaging(MRI). This latter method uses no X-rays, but employs magnetic fields to produce images of body cells and water in tissues."

 

From http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelate...cs/kirlian.html by Dr. Stephen Barrett:

"Kirlian photography allegedly depicts the body's "aura," a so-called "human energy field" that is said to be not ordinarily visible. During the procedure, the object, such as a person's hand, is placed on a photographic emulsion within an apparatus that generates a high-voltage (15,000 to 100,000 volts), low-amperage, high-frequency electric current. The resulting photo shows a fuzzy glow surrounding the outline of the object. Proponents correlate these patterns with acupuncture meridians and claim that "auric" qualities reveal changes in health and emotional state. Kirlian photography has also been claimed useful for demonstrating changes before and after chiropractic spinal manipulation. However, scientific investigators have shown that Kirlian effects depend on physical factors that are well understood.

 

Kirlian photography is named after Semyon Davidovich Kirlian (1900-1980), a Russian electrician who observed that an electric spark can "take its own picture" as it passes through a photographic emulsion. This phenomenon had been well known to physicists and electrical engineers since the earliest days of photography. But in 1939, Kirlian proclaimed that he was photographing a supernatural human energy field.

 

The Kirlian photographic process requires a high-voltage, high-frequency, alternating current supply. The basic process -- a corona discharge phenomenon -- occurs when an electrically grounded object discharges sparks between itself and an electrode generating the electrical field [1]. Two set-ups can be used to take Kirlian photographs. In the first, one end of the circuit is attached to an electrode above a piece of film, the other to an identical electrode below the piece of film. The second method involves grounding one electrode of the power supply and placing a dielectric slab on the other. A piece of film is then placed on the slab. Any object placed between two films in the first method, or on the film in the second method, will produce a beautiful photograph as "streamers" of charged particles leave any "bumpy" features of the object and pass through the film [2].

 

Kirlian himself did not understand the involved science. To him, the "fuzzy" field surrounding any object was a photograph of its "aura." He was ignored by Russian scientists, but during the early 1960s the Russian press and popular magazines promoted him as a "great discoverer." American and European journalists and pseudoscientists flocked to see him and returned home ready to "study the aura" and "probe the bioenergy field."

 

Kirlian photography is alleged to detect all types of disease (even before physical signs appear) and emotional states. Many "energy healers," "clairvoyants," and other occult practitioners still rely on it today. "Supernaturally gifted" people are claimed to generate unusually dramatic photos. However, scientific investigation has found that the outcome depends on the type of film, the voltage, the skin resistance (which can be affected by perspiration and the amount of pressure of the finger on the film), how well the subject is electrically grounded, the humidity of the room, the exposure time, the photographic development time, and even the order of the photograph in a series [3,4]. Moreover, coins and water droplets can generate Kirlian "auras" as effectively as living things. In fact, at least 22 physical, chemical, and photochemical characteristics can influence the coronal discharges seen in Kirlian photos."

[Guybrush]

I tried not to stick my nose in but Bleh, Contamination of science by something, arguing people who like nothing better then moaning in chatrooms, hell i know thats one of the reasons i bother wasting time on the internet.

 

But really man cannot do what nature has not already done or will one day do.

 

GM crops, sure maybe they are bad for us, maybe not? buting fresh Salmon is meant to be bad because of the way they are farmed, you should only eat Salmon in tins caught in Alaska, try telling that to a person who thinks fresh tastes nicer to tinned.

 

At the end of the day the public dont care about science or whats healthy, if they did the UKs obesity wouldnt be constantly on the rise. Politics uses anything to get people wound up, look at fox hunting (sorry im in the UK and dont know any world news) how manny people really care? polltax, war, terrorism, nah its fox hunting and dads not being able to see there children, so thats all we public care about.

 

It doesnt matter whats true, its what is spoon fed to people by the media that matters, just like scientists of the past, what you spend your life proving will not be taken seriously until its popular.

 

I personally dont have a problem with geneticly modified anything, iths what farmings all about, but instead of 10s of years we can now do it in one. What i do worry about is unnatural selection, doing things that would take nature a great deal more time, such as cross engineering say a pig and a great elm. or a squid and a poney? but even then we all have a common 'Universal Ancestor' of premordial / alien bacterial life. So maybe its not even worth worrying about that as long as our bodies are getting what they need from the food.

 

Testing on animals is wrong, resurch shows that most living things experiance pain, but are they self aware? its a cruel thing to say but is a rat doesnt know its alive or what day of the week it is does it matter if it suffers for the good of mankind? religion would say so, but like fox hunting what does the average joe care, unless its plastered all over the papers, and mps are calling for a ban on it.

 

Heck even the games industry is in the news this week tony blaire has actually said, that manhunt should be banned and violent games should be less readily available for young people. Now if this story baloons then im sure forums will be full of people saying how wrong this is and how terrible it is that games should be blamed for all violence, but again it is whats on the news, it is what will win tony blair votes with concerned parents.

 

At the end of the day, Politics has nothing against Science, infact i know for a fact that the goverment has a great interest in science, but pollitics is a dirty game, and pollititions like jounilists will use every resource they have to get votes/readers, even if it means fiderling the facts a little. Posts like this only go to show how easy it is to turn folk into a bunch of rabble, and then get them voting for god knows what.

 

If your a scientist good, but keep out of politics, dont belive anything on face value, and dont spend your days moaning about stuff, if you belive something or dont belive it, proove it to yourself as best you can or have faith in somebody else then when you are happy with the ansear keep it to yourself, leave the preaching to the reliogious fanatics and fallout fans.

[Product of the Cosmos]

"I do belive in the things science has shown us as fact with tangible experiments. Something you seem to not care about."

 

What is this based on?

 

"Heh you obviously have no idea how selective breeding works do you? Selective breeding takes many years to accomplish as White said, some times many generations. The process goes a little like this you start off with 2 animals that have the traits you desire. After they produce offspring you cull the ones out that don't have the traits you desire and start over. After many generations you are normally left with the traits you desire as the dominate trait, meaning it is the one that normally shows up in the offspring. Can a recessive trait pop up every once in a while? Yes but it is not very often, and from what I understand that can happen to second generation GMed plants also."

 

When did I bash selective breeding? As long as we aren't going in and re-coding the DNA ourselves I'm not agianst it being given to the masses as long as they know about it.

 

"You see Product the only thing scientist actually bring to the table is the ability to do it faster and more reliably."

 

Thats where my "Do you not see the difference between something that would happen naturally with time anyway, and genetic alteration?" Quote comes in.... I dont think you understood what I was saying.

 

Cosmos:"Do you not see the difference between something that would happen naturally with time anyway, and genetic alteration?

 

 

As you were so fond of saying to White and the others

 

 

Cosmos: Your judgements are not that of a wise person. So only a fool would claim things he does not know to be true.

 

I'm going on what we know, and that is we don't know a lot! So its just not wise logic to just do something without prior knowledge. Agian, I dont think you understood what I was saying.

[Whitemithrandir]

EVERYTHING aside, Mr. Cosmos (rest assured, I'll get to your bulky posts in due time, but I've got a conference in 20 minutes) selective breeding is *NOT* natural. You think two animals of different species ENJOY having forced sex? No. Usually, selective breeding involves serums to sedate the animal, or since after 1920, with a syringe and artificial insemination. (That's for animals).

 

As for plants, selective breeding usually ends up with failures. In fact, only one in somewhere around 100 products actually survive. So no, selective breeding isnt' natural... at all...

[Product of the Cosmos]

EVERYTHING aside, Mr. Cosmos (rest assured, I'll get to your bulky posts in due time, but I've got a conference in 20 minutes) selective breeding is *NOT* natural. You think two animals of different species ENJOY having forced sex? No. Usually, selective breeding involves serums to sedate the animal, or since after 1920, with a syringe and artificial insemination. (That's for animals).

 

As for plants, selective breeding usually ends up with failures. In fact, only one in somewhere around 100 products actually survive. So no, selective breeding isnt' natural... at all...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

While selective breeding is more along the lines of human selection(like stomp that weed, keep that rose), the DNA's are intact naturally. Meaning, we did not go in, and ourselves re-code the DNA structure. And that is what I am agianst(for population consumption). Genetic alteration when I say it, means re-coding the DNA. Maybe I dont have the PC term :~P

 

Most things will not blend successfully. And this is the safety net for error it seems to me. As for re-encoding the DNA, holds no bars. And IMO we don't know even close to the amount needed to do so safely.

[Dakoth]

Once agian. you talk like you consciously engineered this masterpiece of a universe(multiverse). Imagine all the variables from billions of years of evolution for one.

 

This is your direct quote this in its elf shows you know little of selective breeding. By combing the DNA of the 2 animals you most assuradely make a concious effort to engineer a genetic masterpiece, even if it is in your own eyes.

 

"You see Product the only thing scientist actually bring to the table is the ability to do it faster and more reliably."

 

Thats where my "Do you not see the difference between something that would happen naturally with time anyway, and genetic alteration?" Quote comes in.... I dont think you understood what I was saying.

 

See thats where I get confused. You freely admit it could happen in time anyway yet because we speed the process up that is bad. Quite frankly no I don't see the difference because I don't split hairs genetic manipulation is gentetic manipulation no matter how you perform the task.

 

Cosmos: Your judgements are not that of a wise person. So only a fool would claim things he does not know to be true.

 

The only reason I threw this in was to show you your own hypocrisy. You tell White he is unwise and a fool for talking about things he can not toataly understand, yet you are doing the same.

 

 

I'm going on what we know, and that is we don't know a lot! So its just not wise logic to just do something without prior knowledge. Agian, I dont think you understood what I was saying.

 

 

So the wright brothers should have never developed a plane, Henry Ford should have scrapped his idea for an automobile because they had no prior knowledge of the ramifications? Revolutionary inventions usually come from the previously unexplored areas of science and technology. Is this something that is lost on you?