9/11-1973 darkness falls over Chile

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

Healthcare, education (and damn good one for those who qualify for it, to boot), clothes, food and a roof over your head should be available for everyone (as long as the society can afford that). For the rest, you work. However, I'm against people amassing huge amounts of wealth. Tax rates should rise pretty steeply after certain point, and the money should be spent on improving healthcare and education, not for buying Porches for the unemployed.

[Dakoth]

Di I don't want a redistribution of wealth I want a fair shake in the buisness world. As my example pointed out and anyone who has run a buisness would know the gentleman handing down the layoff order is actually the one costing the company money as he is one man/woman making 6million.(that is a conservative number as there are those that make much more) The other thing is he is the one that could most weather a wage decrease because he makes such a large amount of money. Right now I am watching the Catapiller union battle over wages and benefits for their employees. While the benefits and wages are more than the average person would make I find it funny that a company that makes 2 billion a year profit at current wages and benefits wants t squeez out a little more at the expense of its workers.

 

As for the crack of being unemployed and having the things I do. Thats because while unemployed I don't like it. Considering I make 28 dollars an hour I would much rather be working, at this point there is not a whole lot of construction going on and I am waiting to be placed. Now maybe I took a remark a little to personaly that was not intended that way if so I am sorry.

[Andrew]

Maybe Eichmann fans just really like prompt trains.

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Wasn't it Mussolini who made the trains run on time?

[~Di]

None of my remarks were personal, Dakoth, and certainly none were directed at you since I do not know you and of course have no way of knowing what your financial situation is. I was specifically referring to several people, nearly all from countries other than the USA, who have made the conscious decision to live on government subsistance rather than earn a living simply because it's a viable option. I do not believe it should be a viable option. *shrug*

 

There's a trickly balance between those who own a company and must shuffle billions of dollars to maintain it and those who work for a company, and are entitled to a fair wage for their work. It's a global economy. To survive internationally, an American company must compete against profit margins in countries where workers are paid pennies per hour. Now nobody is suggesting that USA workers be paid pennies an hour, but it is possible to bankrupt a company with union demands that simply cannot be met. It's happened. Then nobody wins, don'tcha know.

 

I have already explained I am in favor of a hybrid capitalist/socialist system of economics. The point remains, however, that Catepillar (and most other large companies that employ millions) would not exist under a socialist system because the founders of these great companies wouldn't have been allowed to earn enough money to create them.

 

With due respect for the suffering of all concerned in the Catepillar union struggle, I personally would not favor an economic system in the USA that favored one side over the other. It is a balancing act, with unions keeping corporations from abusing employees; that doesn't mean that the union should be under the impression that it either owns the company, or has a right to destroy it should its demands not be met. IMHO, of course.

[Dakoth]

I agree with the fact that unions given the chance get way out of hand, that includes the one I belong to. As I said though Cat obviously is not hurting at 2 billion profit per year, coupled with the fact they don't just want to keep the employees where they are they want to drop wages and benefits. They think they are paying to much for their employees, and ritired ones.

 

As for competeing with the other companies in other markets, well thats why we have terrifs. Our government learned the hardway what happens when you let companies freely compete when one is heavily regulated American companies and others are not alot of foriegn companies. (just look at what happened to the steel industry)

 

I am all for the rich getting their money I am tired of seeing it happen at the expense of the middle and poor classes though. I mean how many millions of dollars is enough to live on?

[~Di]

There is "enough to live on", and there is "enough to expand, grow the market, and employ 1.5 million people in a global economy." So simply stating that those at the top earn "enough to live on" doesn't really view both sides of the equasion.

 

You didn't mention whether Catepillar is a publicly-traded company or not. If it is, then it is stockholders, thousands of 'em, who have the ultimate say in how much return on their investment they consider to be enough. If they aren't happy with their profit, they'll pull their money out and invest it somewhere else. Then stock prices plummet, and eventually the company goes out of business. That doesn't help those now-permanently-unemployed workers, does it?

 

Sometimes we have to stop envying what others have, and turn our sights to living life the best we can.

[Dakoth]

Well let me get this straight while I can not say that 2billion is net profit is it safe to say half that is? Is one billion enough to expand any buisness globally if need be? Public traded company means nothing while yes people can pull their money out they rarely do it if the biusness is a money maker. Even if 1 or 2 do there is usually someone to take their place. Micrsoft ring any bells?

 

Here is an example of what I am saying if Microsoft filed for bankruptcy protection they would need to make sweeping changes to show they are trying to get back to positive income. While this will mean massive layoffs for employees it very rarely translates to any pay cuts for the top teir of execuatives. If a CEO, CFO, and vice presidents would take a fraction of what they earned while in the black it could save many production level jobs. This being said it rarely ever happens.

[Dakoth]

I guess my big question is when is there enough money, and what is considered proper in getting it.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

I find them as offensive as swastika vests.

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And why is that? <_<