Party build advice for Pillars 1 POTD run

[Vasvary5050]

Hi folks. I'm thinking of stating a new Pillars of Eternity 1 run on POTD. I've completed Deadfire (with all 3 DLCs) a few times, including on POTD both with and without upscaling, but I've only played Pillars 1 the once, and I think that was just on normal or hard difficulty. It was also a long time ago and so I won't be going into the run with a lot of meta-knowledge. I've read that Deadfire is a lot easier than Pillars 1 so I'm not sure what to expect from POTD on Pillars 1. Is it much harder than Deadfire's POTD (with level upscaling)?

For my POTD run on Pillars 1 I'm thinking of going with the following:

Fighter (Eder) - either as main tank or off-tank

Chanter (Kana Rua) - either as off-tank or main tank

Priest (Durance) - mainly for buffs, but hopefully also contributing decently as damage dealer

Cipher - custom - damage dealer and control

Bleak Walker Paladin - custom - damage dealer

Kind Wayfarer Paladin - custom - damage dealer and healing 

Does this sound like a viable party? Anything you would change or advise with this set-up?

[Chaospread]

Hi, PoE1 dragons is harder than boss in Deadfire but not so much. On the other side equip is stronger in Poe1, so this balance out difficulty.
You can beat the game on PotD SOLO with every class, so a full party is good in any combination, more or less.

I'd switch a paladin of your party with another class: maybe druid (trade of all jacks, and also a good healer if you wanna keep such role without a paladin), wizard (AoE damage and control, or a melee wizard build, and he can achieve heal with scrolls) or a damage dealer (rogue, melee or ranged, or ranger, ranged indeed).

If you wish a great damage dealer a monk is actually strong, and a barb is fun and good for groups of foes.

It is only to have variety in your party, you can stick to your party composition and you'll have no many troubles with a chanter, a priest and a cipher.

[Boeroer]

Imo it's not harder. The per-rest mechanic of casters makes it so that you can spam a lot of (more) impactful spells (faster) in tough encounters. Most spells in PoE are more powerful than in Deadfire because they are per-rest. But that also means if you can spam them in tough fights (b cause you didn't use them in easy fights) the fight will be so much easier. 

Also the Priest's buffs are more potent in PoE1. You have Inspired Radiance + Devotions which is a direct, stackable +30 acc buff for the whole party. Also Prayers  counter most disabling attacks of enemies - which are usually the things that make fights extra difficult.

Any party is viable. You can play 6 Rogues and be fine if you know what you are doing. Two Paladins and no casters (besides Priest) will make the tough fights even harder because Paladins don't have the tools to crack those fights - unless you give them both a marking weapon + Coordinated Attacks which let's each of them buff any near party member's accuracy with all-stackable +20 points which is extremely potent in the toughest fights. For example Blade of the Endless Paths/Spectacular Spetum for the Bleak Walker and Shame or Glory + whatever other sword for the Kind Wayfarer. 

Lay on Hands and the Kind Wayfarer's healing are great to survive fights, but because of the endurance/health mechanic of PoE1, healing is not the impactful "remedy" to lacking defenses it is in Deadfire. If you try to outheal everything you will have to rest a lot bc. of low health. Even if only one party member has low health you have to rest. It won't help if 5 out of 6 have still nice health bars.

But you have a Priest - and that's the biggest plus you can have in PoE. 

In general - for an easier playthrough - I would recommend 3 front liners with one dedicated tank who can block chokepoints (like Edér) and two offtanks who catch the occasional rusher for your backline. In my current run I'm using Hiravias with dual hatchets and Kana Rua with a single hatchet (yes, Hiravias is more than capable to fulfill that role). More front liners lead to a positioning mess very often. The pathfinding is not as good as in Deadfire and you might end up with some Benny-Hill-esque sequences where enemies and party members run around each other in circles, block each other and all other sorts of weird things.

Three backline characters. As above I'd say the more casters the more easy the fights at the higher levels will become. But any ranged character will work. 

It's beneficial to not build utter glass cannons for the backline. If you have very potent damage dealers but they have low endurance, DR and deflection they will attract certain enemies' attention. Rogues, Barbs and Rangers are primarily looking for soft targets. If you then have front liners who cannot punish disengagement, you will end up with lots of enemies just rushing by your front line, eating disengagement attacks and attacking your squishies.

You can counter that with tactics (don't un-stealth the backline until the front line is firmly engaged by enemies, use choke points and corners, use a lot of disables, summons and mind control) and/or by simply giving your backline a bit more deflection and DR (via items and buffs) so that they become less attractive targets. Even the highest DPS drops to 0 if your damage dealers get knocked out.

TL;dr: I'd say your party composition is suboptimal but it's totally doable. You have a Priest - which is a big step towards easier fights. And if you had no issues in Deadfire I'm very sure you will not have issues with PoE - after a short acclimatization phase. 

 

[Vasvary5050]

Thanks Chaosspread and Boeroer for this guidance.

I'll change the line up to include 2 casters rather than just 1. My original thinking was to minimise casters to just 1 because unlike Deadfire the spells are per rest rather than per encounter, and I didn't realise that the spells were that much stronger in Pillars 1 to compensate for that. And yeah, I'll avoid making the backline glass canons as I know the AI often prioritising squishy targets (running by the "tanks") or shooting past them. Out of interest, would 2 priests be over-egging the priestly pie, or are they so good that 2 would be great?

Quick question for Chaosspread. You suggested replacing one of the Paladins with druid, wizard or damage dealer (rogue or ranger). I take it then that a Bleak Walker's potential for damage dealing is weak compared to rogue and hunter? (Never tried a BW in either Pillars game and was curious as to how it would do in a damage dealing role)?

Edited May 2 by Vasvary5050

[Boeroer]

51 minutes ago, Vasvary5050 said:

Thanks Chaosspread and Boeroer for this guidance.

I'll change the line up to include 2 casters rather than just 1. My original thinking was to minimise casters to just 1 because unlike Deadfire the spells are per rest rather than per encounter, and I didn't realise that the spells were that much stronger in Pillars 1 to compensate for that.

In PoE all per-rest casters also have at least one thing they can do per encounter: Priest gets Holy Radiance (which is very good when paired with Inspiring Radiance) and can also pick Interdiction (whichalso can get boosted furhter with talents), Wizards get Arcane Assault 2 times per encounter and Druids get Spiritshift (which is extremely good when build for, especially when used with the Wildstrike Belt).
So those three "per rest" casters are not useless in easier fights even if you want to spare per-rest spells as much as possible. Priests can even be brought up to Fighter's weapon prowess with the fitting talent (for example Durance can be pretty good with an arquebus).

Once they get spell mastery (a select tier 1, 2, 3 and 4 spell per encountner on top of their usual per-rest spells) they even outshine most other classes even in those "easy" mob fights. In addition to that you can also pick a cross-class talent such as Aspirant's Mark - which also are 1/encounter. And you can also pick talents that grant bonus per-rest spell uses. Priest (1) and Wizards (2) can also get rings which give multiple bonus per-rest spell uses. After some levels there's no shortage of spells uses at all imo.  

If I had to pick between Wizard or Druid I would pick Druid I think - but both are great.

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, Vasvary5050 said:

I take it then that a Bleak Walker's potential for damage dealing is weak compared to rogue and hunter? 

I wasn't adressed, but yes, Bleak Walker's damage output isn't great besides the 2 FoD strikes - and later once Sacred Immolation is accessible.

In general a Paladin's potential for weapon damage is weak compared not only to a Rogue or Ranger but also to a Spiritshift Druid (which do incredible melee damage while shifted AND can cast great spells on top of that). 

[Vasvary5050]

Any build tips for a druid build? I'm not entirely sure how best to build a druid companion so that it can be decent at spell casting but also shapeshift and participate in the melee in between contributing with spells.

POTD in Pillars at low level (early game) is no joke (at least for little ole me).

[Vasvary5050]

So I did Temple of Eothas last night on POTD. I might have been hitting it too early, still at level 3 with crappy gear (a few fine weapons)i, and I had a hard time with it. The shadows + shades were the main pain, proving really difficult to hit and damage.

So my question is, is there anything else I can be doing at this early stage of the game to improve my accuracy. Here is a quick summary of my party:

In the end I went with the following line up: Eder (tank), MC (Kind Wayfarer off-tank), Durance (buffs and heals), Aloth (DD), Kana (summons), Hired Cipher (DD / CC). I messed around with a hired druid instead of Aloth, but it was a level behind everyone because not hired right at the beginning of run (so level 2), and it wasn't contributing much so I went back to Aloth. The Cipher hit level 3 before going into the second level of the Temple and was overall the top damage dealer.

My problem is accuracy. To give a few examples, even with Durance's Inspiring Radiance up, my accuracy was as follows:

MC: 59 (+25 Paladin, + 8 Perception [Per 18], +6 Level, +10 Holy Radiance, +6 Zealous Focus, +4 Fine Weapons)

Cipher: 58 (+25 Cipher, + 11 Perception [Per 21], +6 Level, +10 Holy Radiance, +6 Zealous Focus)

Aloth: 44 (+20 Wizard, + 2 Perception [Per 12], +6 Level, +10 Holy Radiance, +6 Zealous Focus)

Eder: 54/50/46 depending on which sized shield used (+30 Fighter + 2 Perception [Per 12], +6 Level, +10 Holy Radiance, +6 Zealous Focus, -0/4/8 for shield)

(I was also using Durance's blessing until I realised the accuracy part doesn't stack with Zealous Focus).

I think the Shade's Deflection was in the high 70s with 16 DR (though only 8 to fire, so Aloth's fire spells came in handy, though hampered by his crappy accuracy)

I did get through the Temple, but people got knocked unconscious a fair bit (sometimes because of shadows and shades teleporting into the squishies, but even Eder went down at one point, and I had to rest 3 times).

My question is, what can I do to improve my accuracy for the early game (or is the early game just a bit rough until you get some decent builds and gear rolling)?

Edited May 3 by Vasvary5050

[Boeroer]

Inspiring Radiance (Priest talent for Holy Radiances) is a very impactful +10 accuracy boost because it stacks with everything, is a fast cast and achievable early. So well done.

Also: Survival at 4 (or even 8 if you can manage early) and picking the according acc bonus against enemies ahead when resting. Stacks with everything as well.

That's great for all debuffing and damaging spells and of course weapon attacks, too.

Then pick a fitting Weapon Focus as early as possible and use a single one handed weapon if you still have problems (+12 accuracy is a HUGE bonus early in the game - later not so much).

Then look at the enemies' defenses: if they have high Fortitude then don't use debuffs/disables that roll against fortitude much for example.

In general use debuffs that target low defenses in order to bring down defenses even further. You can use Knockdown against low fortitude enemies with high deflection for example. Those are often spirits. Prone targets suffer deflection penalties.

Use flanking, too. 

Having said that: lvl 3 in the Temple of Eothas is too early. The first floor is doable, but the underlying ones are way too hard then. 

Edited May 3 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

14 hours ago, Vasvary5050 said:

Any build tips for a druid build? I'm not entirely sure how best to build a druid companion so that it can be decent at spell casting but also shapeshift and participate in the melee in between contributing with spells.

Ah sorry didn't read that in time. 

It's easy: just pick Wildstrike and Greater Wildstrike and Weapon Focus Peasant as well as Two Weapon Style and equip the Wildstrike Belt. Attributes can be balanced, you don't need to min-max for weapon dmaage. The natural weapons' base damage scale in base damage AND quality, making them very powerful in any case. You are now an excellent melee damage dealer and can still cast great spells.

If you want you can also pick one of the elemental boost talents (Scion of Flame etc.) - preferably the element you picked for Wildstrike and which you use often with your spells - for me that's shock most of times. So Heart of the Storm in that case.

It boosts your spell damage but also the lashes your melee attacks gain while shifted (including the bonus lash from the Wikdstrike Belt).

Hiravias is a great Druid, you could simply copy his attributes and pick cat form and you'd be all set.

I also made a more sturdy variant with the boar form here:

Just for inspiration...

[Vasvary5050]

"Inspiring Radiance ... is a very impactful +10 accuracy boost because it stacks with everything, is a fast cast and achievable early. So well done." Thanks! Yeah, I re-spec'd Durance as early priority to get rid of his starter talent and replace it with Inspiring Radiance (much more useful right out the gate than Bear's Fortitude).

"Having said that: lvl 3 in the Temple of Eothas is too early. The first floor is doable, but the underlying ones are way too hard then." Yeah, I realise now it was too early, and I reckon with everyone at level 4 (and a bit of gear) it would have been much easier, but I did push through (yay me), albeit with a fair amount of swearing at my monitor, and a number of knock outs and rests. I spent a fair bit of coin doing hiring and re-specs (hired cipher, hired druid and then abandoned them so that was wasted coin, re-spec'd Eder to replace rapid recovery with weapon and shield style [not sure if this was best call but I figured getting his deflection higher so he doesn't get hit as much was more important than a bit of extra self-healing], and Durance to get inspired radiance, so perhaps not an optimal start to my run from a cash perspective).

I'll try druid again when I get Hiravias. I think POTD is too difficult in the early game to run a druid at one level behind (I hired the cipher as soon as I got to Gilded Vale so he is not too far behind the xp of my other companions and is currently the same level, albeit everyone else is about to ding level 4, but the druid is still level 2 as I didn't have the coin to hire him straight away).

My challenge now is working out what to do with Kana. I haven't respec'd him and so he still has his started invocations, and summon skeletons was an interesting but brief diversion for the enemies, but enemies ripped through them like they were made of tissue paper, and sometimes they even made things worse with a chaotic benny-hill like muddle. I know he will be a big contributor later (when he hits level 9 I think) with dragon thrashed, but for now he feels like a bit of a liability that I'm carrying.

[Boeroer]

Kana can be very impactful before lvl 9 if you know how to use the White Worms invocation to maximum effect: if you have gib effects (exploding corpses from crit-kills) turned off and fight enemies who leave corpses (basically any enemy except spirits and oozes) you can use chokepoints and pile up corpses there, luring enemies of a map there over and over again and cast White Worms in that pile of corpses while enemies approach. You can reuse those corpses over and over again. They only disappear if you have to reload the map.

This can make Raedric's Castle so much easier to conquer and to get all the loot from all the enemies. 

Edited May 3 by Boeroer

[Vasvary5050]

Thanks Boeroer. I will take white worms and try this

[Vasvary5050]

Happy to report that Eder, Aloth, Durance, Kana, my Paladin and Cipher are making good progress. Compared to the bruising I received at the Temple of Eothas, things have been quite easy in comparison so far. Kana  has been much more useful than I though (basically summoning phantoms, a bit of White Worms as suggested by Boeroer, and off-tanking). Next time I play Pillars 1 on POTD I'll delay doing the temple until a bit later. Those packs of shadows, shades and phantoms are really tough at low level. The 2 Pillars games are so good, and its great that people who know the game so well are still playing it.

[Chaospread]

On 5/2/2025 at 3:26 PM, Vasvary5050 said:

Quick question for Chaosspread. You suggested replacing one of the Paladins with druid, wizard or damage dealer (rogue or ranger). I take it then that a Bleak Walker's potential for damage dealing is weak compared to rogue and hunter? (Never tried a BW in either Pillars game and was curious as to how it would do in a damage dealing role)?

Hi, I've missed many messages but you can have a BW in a whole party even if as Boeroer said other classes achieve the damage dealer role better (rogue, monk etc.). My consideration is mostly because in a party I like to play with different classes thus 2 paladins is a little boring, but a BW full equipped and well builded can deal good damage.
For the druid and wizard, you can take them late game, in the last levels they are very powerful and a lot of fun!

Druid build is quite "easy", pick Relentless Storm, Heart of the Storm, Wildstrike Shock and its upgrade, Outlander's Frenzy, Apprentice's Sneak Attack, Two Weapon Style and other spells you like.
For mastery a good choose is Nature's Mark, Taste of the Hunt, Returning Storm and Moonwell (or Form of the Delemgan).
Cast Nature's mark, the 4th level bonus spell, Rentless Storm (or Returning storm for easier encounter), spiritishift and start to kill enemies

When spiritshift is over, you can use Gyrd Háewanes Sténes to regain spiritshift or you can cast AoE damage spells and/or utility/healing spells. Equip with Wildstrike Belt please!

After Caed Nua, when you arrive in Defiance Bay, the game is easier also for mid level caster, so don't worry and hang in there!

[Vasvary5050]

Any suggestions for best early-game Chanter phrases (Kana is currently level 5)?

In my previous run I think I started using "Sure-Handed Ila Nocked Her Arrows with Speed" at this point but I think I was running more ranged including a gunner that time.

One phrase that I've slept on previously because it didn't previously look sexy, but now is looking rather good, is "Lo, Their Endless Host, the Harbingers Doom". -10 Accuracy (and -2 dex/res) for all enemies in the AoE seems quite awesome when I've doing everything I can to bump up my accuracy and deflection. Worth using until I open up tier 3 phrases?

[Vasvary5050]

Hi Chaospread. Just saw your reply post, which I think you posted just before I posted my update. Thanks for feedback on the BW. I did start run with BW and KW paladins, but re-started my POTD run without the BW (in the end went with Eder, Aloth, Durance, Kana, KW paladin and cipher), and after a rough start in the Temple of Eothas its now going well. Just got to defiance bay and I'm on the second level of the endless path. Thanks for the tips for the druid. I might add a druid back into the mix at higher level (I started with a druid hirling but ended up benching them).

Edited May 5 by Vasvary5050

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, Vasvary5050 said:

One phrase that I've slept on [...] is "Lo, Their Endless Host, the Harbingers Doom". [...] Worth using until I open up tier 3 phrases?

Yes, absolutely. 

[Vasvary5050]

Going down through the levels now in the Endless Path. White Worms was great for dealing with the xurips and wurms on level 2; also, I thought I'd bring Sagani with me as didn't use her before on an earlier run. Her fast little fox is great for scouting and pulling mobs back to the party positioned at choke points with piles of corpses (not bad in combat as well for dashing past the front line once its stabilised a bit and going for the casters at the back).

[Chaospread]

21 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Yes, absolutely. 

Totally agree. The others are occasionally, if you encounter resisting foe and/or you have some ranger characters (or one very strong ranged) the second choice is Sure-Handed Ila Nocked Her Arrows with Speed.
Someone says Rime and Frost Followed the Footfalls of Karth can be good, but it is uncomfortable as it needs some micro etc.

[Vasvary5050]

Hi folks. I could do with re-visiting my POTD party again and hoping to get some more advice please  

My parry is currently level 6, nearly level 7. I'm doing okay but struggling with some encounters (it might be that I'm going to some places too early). For example, I struggled big time at Searing Falls (got overwhelmed by drakes and fire sprites; might have been a bad pull and I might have been able to deal with them in smaller numbers, but I decided that I'd probably arrived here too early), and I also had a rough time at Lle a Rhemen (those Caen Gwla's are a pain with their AoE paralysis). 

My current party is: (Note: I check damage after most fights so I can see how each character is comparing):

Eder (tanking with Hearth Harvest and Larder Door): Has deflection of 90 before any combat buffs. He isn't doing huge damage (more than Kana though), but he is doing his job of engaging multiple enemies and not dying.

Kana (off-tank): He's doing a decent job of off-tanking. However, his damage is usually terrible except on a couple of maps where I managed to create piles of corpses and lure enemies back to those piles, and then used White Worms (e.g. Raedric's Hold, and against the xurips and ogres on the early levels of the endless path). I also don't think I would have survived against the Caen Gwlas and their armies of spectres and shades without Shatter their Shackles to mitigate their insane AOE paralysis, though they did still sometimes fire off their wail before I got Shatter their Shackles in place). That said, I'm thinking of parking him and just bringing him out where his tool kit is particularly useful (and then bringing him back into the main party when he gets Dragon Thrashed)

MC (kind wayfarer, dual wielding): Okay all-rounder though not as great as I hoped if I'm honest. MC is doing more damage than Eder and Kana, providing useful healing in every encounter, and can off-off-tank if there are a lot of enemies pushing or teleporting past Eder and Kana, though doing quite a bit less damage than the Cipher.

Durance: Priest. Indispensable for buffs (and a bit of healing and tickle damage). Has secure place because his buffs and prayers are so good.

Cipher (with Cloud Piercer): Main damage dealer (followed by Sagani) and puppet master.

Sagani (with Persistence): Damage dealer with pet. Sagani is currently doing about 30% less damage than Cipher (though more than anyone else currently in the party), but her pet's damage does not show in the personal records tab as part of "Total Damage Done" so its hard to be sure, and Itumaak feels like its doing a decent job (though it does sometimes get knocked out), so with Itumaak's contribution this may push her beyond Cipher's damage. Not sure how high to estimate her pet's damage TBH.

I think what the party lacks is damage output (in particular burst and aoe damage), and it has too many front-liners (Eder, Kana, MC and Sagani's pet). I think my main problem is not getting wiped in fights (the party has decent healing to keep endurance up during fights), or exhausting Durance's spells, but rather the fights going on for a long time, everyone taking damage, and then having to rest A LOT because everyone's health is low after just a couple of fights. Of course, I can just do that (blasting through camping supplies or running back to an inn a lot), but I'm thinking maybe I need to replace Kana with either a Wizard or Druid so I can burst out more AoE damage. 

The other option is to keep Kana and replace either Cipher or Sagani with Druid or Wizard, but I at least know that Cipher and Sagani are doing dependable damage every encounter.

Any suggestions gratefully received. Is my current party just too heavy with front-liners? Or is Cipher and Ranger a bad damage dealing combination? (Note: I want to push through rather than re-starting so the kind wayfarer is kind of locked in now).

[Boeroer]

Don't have much time atm, but often damage-over-time (Persistence's wounding, Kana's Comes Soft Winds etc.) is also not recorded. That makes it really hard to truly know who does good damage and who's not.

Something like Come Soft Winds doesn't do much damage to individual enemies, but the huge AoE usually means he will hit a lot of foes simultaneously.

Wounding with some Might bonus can also do around 30% more dmg - that would bring Sagani up to your Cipher - plus Animal Companion.

Searing Falls is hard. You shouldn't go there until you have 10 mechanics. Because that's what you need to find Tidefall (in scouting modus) anyway. 

[Vasvary5050]

Thanks Boeroer for these tips. DoTs not being recorded certainly makes it a bit trickier to judge who is contributing what damage. I did start looking more closely at the combat log seeing as Itumaak's damage is not recorded in the character's records, and I was pleasantly surprised to see the little fox does decent damage. Itumaak also makes a decent little scout (can stealth and doesn't trigger traps). Yeah, I didn't realise that Searing Falls was so tough and not really intended for level 6s (I'm too used to the skulls from playing Deadfire to give a bit of advance warning about which areas and enemies are going to be tough to deal with at my level). I'm focusing on finishing Defiance Bay now and will go back to Searing Falls later.