Good cipher dps spells / builds

[Elric Galad]

3 hours ago, SenSx said:

I really don't know Elric, I  haven't tested it much.

I think they probbly justify the weaker effect with a lower focus cost and a boss killer indeed.

Yup, and it also has stacking with everything. At least a decent spell to spam with Soulblade (cheaper) or Psion (cheap cost matters, might be one of most impactful cheap spamming spell when Whispers can'be used) 

I'll pass on modding this one. 

Really the only frustrating thing is the DoT and Soul Annhilation not benefitting, but this can't be easily corrected.

[Bosmer]

4 hours ago, SenSx said:

I really don't know Elric, I  haven't tested it much.

I think they probbly justify the weaker effect with a lower focus cost and a boss killer indeed.

I don‘t know if it should work with Dots, but it should at least work with Soul annihilation (I didn’t even know that it didn’t work with SA because I seldomly use it). Almost seems like an oversight.

Elrics proposal would allow more potential build synergy. I don’t think that the effect would be generally stronger. It would be stronger for dot damage, but weaker for direct damage, especially for martial attacks  (albeit contributing to focus generation).
 

Would it stack with the Paladin debuff?

[Elric Galad]

17 minutes ago, Bosmer said:

I don‘t know if it should work with Dots, but it should at least work with Soul annihilation (I didn’t even know that it didn’t work with SA because I seldomly use it). Almost seems like an oversight.

I should check properly, but as far as I get, only attack damages benefit from it. SA damages actually come from a status, like DoT.

17 minutes ago, Bosmer said:

Elrics proposal would allow more potential build synergy. I don’t think that the effect would be generally stronger. It would be stronger for dot damage, but weaker for direct damage, especially for martial attacks  (albeit contributing to focus generation).
 

Not stronger but less unique, that's the main concern.

+30-40% weapon damages is significantly less than 30% raw lash. Current version is optimal want you wanna weapon gang against 1 hardy foe (and work also with instant and even pulsating spell) 

17 minutes ago, Bosmer said:

Would it stack with the Paladin debuff?

No. Same debuff don't stack. That also a reason not to tweak it. But it is also a reason why a tweak won't be gamebreaking, as it only does an existing debuff. 

[Bosmer]

I understand your point and I’m quite unsure about this myself. I just notice that at least in my playthroughs I tend to take the ability but never use it, maybe on large bosses, if I remember it. And since applying debuffs and dots on bosses is more important it sits in very niche spot, although being a cool ability on paper. 
 

I would consider not stacking with the paladin ability a plus. At least they would differ in the AoE / Single target dimension. 

[Elric Galad]

5 hours ago, Bosmer said:

I understand your point and I’m quite unsure about this myself. I just notice that at least in my playthroughs I tend to take the ability but never use it, maybe on large bosses, if I remember it. And since applying debuffs and dots on bosses is more important it sits in very niche spot, although being a cool ability on paper. 
 

I would consider not stacking with the paladin ability a plus. At least they would differ in the AoE / Single target dimension. 

Mwahahahaha

Just remembered the Cleansing Flame doubling tick rate forgotten in the base game but re-added by Community Patch.
Tested it and it basically multiplies by 2 the number of ticks, basically doubling any DoT damages (including itself) bar initial tick. It doubles tick but does not halve duration.

 

Basically I can add a similar effect (multiply factor only 1.3) to Recall Agony to buff all DoT damages with the same magnitude as other damages. Won't stack with Cleasing Flame but will stack with everything else.

 

Also CP Cleansing Flame might be a bit too powerful after CP change. This thing is a much faster disintigrate (208 base damages) that also bounces, target deflection, double other DoT damages (well it doubles itself, but I already counted it) and reduces beneficial effects. 

Edited August 19 by Elric Galad

[Bosmer]

23 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Mwahahahaha

Just remembered the Cleansing Flame doubling tick rate forgotten in the base game but re-added by Community Patch.
Tested it and it basically multiplies by 2 the number of ticks, basically doubling any DoT damages (including itself) bar initial tick. It doubles tick but does not halve duration.

 

Basically I can add a similar effect (multiply factor only 1.3) to Recall Agony to buff all DoT damages with the same magnitude as other damages. Won't stack with Cleasing Flame but will stack with everything else.

Thats such a cool finding! Any chance for a similar workaround for SA?

Edited August 20 by Bosmer

[Elric Galad]

27 minutes ago, Bosmer said:

Thats such a cool finding! Any chance for a similar workaround for SA?

Most likely not, but who can say no ?

[SenSx]

What is the most effective weapon for building focus for a pure cipher ?

I'm trying to figure out what weapon to give Ydwin.

Some of you mentionned Blunderbuss ?

Is it better one handed or dual wanded blunderbuss ?

 

Thanks

[Boeroer]

Frostseeker. It's both good against single enemies and mobs alike and its AoE generates focus.

Use Borrowed Instinct (more crits), Time Parasite and pick the Shared Nightmare passive. Frostseeker's AoE on crit will grow with Shared Nightmare, so Shared Nightmares makes the AoE bigger with more focus - which generates more focus because you reach more enemies - which makes the AoE bigger... and so on.

Serafen's mortars are good against mobs as well and will profit from Shared Nightmare, but less good against single enemies.
Kitchen Stove is very good because of Tunderous Report (high dmg AoE cone 1/encounter). It generates a ton of focus if used against numerous foes and is great to fill your focus up asap 1/encounter. After that it's  just a regular blunderbuss though with its rel. low PEN pierce-only damage. 

Waterhaper's Focus (enchanted with Ondra' Wrath) is very good against mobs - but really bad against single enemies.  

Hunting Bow + modal is a good option. Essence Interrupter and Aamiina's Legacy are both great. Only useable against single targets though.

That's why all in all I'd pick Frostseeker.   

 

Edited August 30 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

My own personal choices would be Amira's Wing or Rod of the Deep Hunt. I do find non watershaper focus rods underrated.

Rod modal is crazy vs crowd, esp with Shared Nightmare (same as mortars and watershaper focus). The big difference is that non-watershaper focus rods are good enough vs single target. Nothing shiny but still way better than Watershaper focus/mortars which basically requiring weapon swapping vs single target, instead of just modal toggling. They feel super flexible and have decent enchant. Ciphers do get decent accuracy to use frostseeker, but it requires setup (Borrowed Instinct, Psychovampiric Shield, some flanking). I don't find it reactive enough for most fights.

 

Amira's Wing also has spell like abilities which benefit from weapon quality (+60% damages for legendary, not even counting PL scaling). Sure it's 1 per rest, contrary to Kitchen Stove but Horrid Writting with +60% bonus damages and Shared Nightmare is... Horrid ? And it will most likely replenish full focus.

I also love Rod the Deep Hunt. Sure you don't have all of Amira's Wing spells but the minus deflection  and recovery time is exactly what you want vs bosses (and is decent vs crowd), when rod modal becomes suboptimal. Again nothing shiny but the whole party will benefit from your boss debuffing (-5 Deflection +15% recovery isn't a bad passive debuff vs a strong single target). 

 

Second slot : A few bosses are very resistant to slash AND pierce damages and REQUIRE essence interrupter. Which is also quite good vs single target because of Hunting bows modal. It's a close to necessary secondary slot. Sometimes Redhand is nice for the single target burst/focus gain.

Edited August 30 by Elric Galad

[SenSx]

Ok thanks a lot I will study all of that.

The only weapon modal I've been using so far was with wand, that -10 accuracy is really good untill you get another spell that overrides it, and dagger in off hand for all my range characters.

I've been avoiding Essence Interrupter as I've heard it can make loot disapear if the target is killed with it...

 

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, SenSx said:

I've been avoiding Essence Interrupter as I've heard it can make loot disapear if the target is killed with it...

That was fixed with a patch. I haven't had that problem in years. 

[SenSx]

On 9/1/2024 at 10:57 AM, Boeroer said:

That was fixed with a patch. I haven't had that problem in years. 

Ok thanks, I'll grab this one.