Need help with cipher/fighter build

[LonelyFatGuy]

Hey guys,

 

Its been ages since i played POE2 and i gotten it again on console.
Wanted to do a cipher build without paladin.

So fighter? ranger? or barbarian?

Choice of weapons either 2 handed (prefere mornignstar) or dualwielding (sword/war hammer ish).

Any build ideas and stat ideas?

 

[Not So Clever Hound]

Oh boy, a morningstar-wielding barbarian... I know where this is going.  it starts with Bo and ends with -er.

Seriously though Barb/Cipher with a certain Morningstar is all-kinds of synergistic and fun to play.

[LonelyFatGuy]

or speer / sword combo

 

but tell me more plz, wich subclass?

[Not So Clever Hound]

Just now, LonelyFatGuy said:

but tell me more plz, wich subclass?

I would say Soulblade + any Barb, maybe Furyshaper for extra synergy around Resolve afflictions. Berserker can be tough to keep alive. You will have lots of synergy around being able to debuff Fortitude into oblivion and target it with Brute Force, for a lot of nice Crits. You will also have great synergies with a certain Morningstar available early that shines with enemies affected by Resolve afflictions, and a cipher/barb excels at that - especially a Soulblade/Furyshapers in my opinion, which also give you a strong one-shot option. Beguiler could be nice too.

[dgray62]

Cipher/ranger is nice too, as you can get the highest possible accuracy without cheese with this combo. Ascendant/ghostheart is great if you want to go ranged and cast tons of spells. Arcana archer is good too if you use a mod to fix the lack of scaling for the subclass' abilities in the vanilla game. But as it seems that you want to go melee, I'd strongly recommend soul blade/stalker with a bear animal companion. The combo's nice since stalker makes you both more sturdy, and you have lots of buffs for your AC.

[yorname]

Cipher fighter is pretty bad because for fighter both their +accuracy stance and all defenses buff (forgot the name) don't stack with borrowed instinct, so you get less value. Far from unviable bad but probably not what you'd expect from a multiclass. Cipher already has accuracy buff so you don't need to worry about it when picking barbarian. Stalker is great because their accuracy stack and really helps your borrowed instinct to land. Monk also works, but mostly because they are just op for anything

[thelee]

i wouldn't say it's bad, but you do need to avoid those traps.

instead of the +acc stance you can do mob stance. meanwhile disciplined barrage line of buffs and confident aim make it a lot easier to generate focus on vanilla ciphers, especially on high difficulty.

open question: does a kill from soulblade's soul annihilation trigger mob stance full attacks? might be a neat interaction for a fighter/cipher.

[LonelyFatGuy]

@yorname So barb or ranger then?

I tried looking on the forum for those multiclasses but only found 1 ranger/cipher build. With more focus on range and Melle.

 

I tend to love melee overal more with some spells/range for use.

Played almost to finish when poe2 came out with a cipher paladin build

Edited January 20, 2023 by LonelyFatGuy

[Boeroer]

Furyshaper/Soulblade or Furyshaper/Beguiler with Morningstar is a really nice combo. I think I'd prefer Beguiler because it's more versatile in terms of focus generation.

Cipher has no summons - so there's no problem with the Furyshaper's wards. Also Iron Will of the Chipher balances out the drawback the Furyshaper has (lowered Will). Secret Horrors (frightens and sickens) in combination with Spirit Frenzy (dazes) lowers Fortitude of enemies by 20 points which stacks with the Morning Star modal (-25 Fortitude) which is great in combination with the Barbarian's ability "Brute Force".

 

 

[yorname]

You can simply make a stalker/soulblade, it doesn't have crazy interactions or hit very hard so just take core stuff from both classes and whatever you like with the rest points.

[yorname]

Discipline Barrage is comparable to a total of 10-15 ACC if you don't have perception inspirations from any other source, Confidant Aim is worth much, much less, so if mob stance works that way it can be a pretty fun and solid build, otherwise what's left from the fighter side is the incredible durability, still not bad but doesn't synergize with cipher really well.

[Boeroer]

Tactical Barrage does synergize with Cipher pretty well imo - esp. since Ciphers have no own reliable way of getting an INT inspiration.

Tactician/Beguiler makes for a nice synergistic combo bc. of Phantom Foes imo. Making it fairly easy to become Brilliant and refresh your Discipline. That can then used for Clear Out which is an awesome focus generator if applied to a bunch of crowed enemies (and higher INT = bigger AoE).
 
Even if the Tactician gets confused (from getting flanked) you can use that to your advantage with the Cipher side - because it allows you to cast certain Cipher powers (see Amplified Thrust and -Wave or Ectopsychic Echo for example) on enemies instead of allies only. In case of Amplified Thrust the enemy target will get hit twice(!) by the thrust, which makes that spell a nice single target damamge tool and really worthwhile all of a sudden.
  
Unfortunately the defense buffs of Borrowed Instincts and Refreshing Defense don't stack - but maybe one should just look at this and see it as two spared ability points (for not needing to take Vigorous + Refreshing Defense).

[LonelyFatGuy]

On 1/21/2023 at 12:51 AM, Boeroer said:

Furyshaper/Soulblade or Furyshaper/Beguiler with Morningstar is a really nice combo. I think I'd prefer Beguiler because it's more versatile in terms of focus generation.

Cipher has no summons - so there's no problem with the Furyshaper's wards. Also Iron Will of the Chipher balances out the drawback the Furyshaper has (lowered Will). Secret Horrors (frightens and sickens) in combination with Spirit Frenzy (dazes) lowers Fortitude of enemies by 20 points which stacks with the Morning Star modal (-25 Fortitude) which is great in combination with the Barbarian's ability "Brute Force".

 

 

Any starting tips for a fury/beguiler?
stat wise? and starting skills?

Or a link to one? havent found anything sadly

The rest ill probebly find out on my own and i can always rerol if it doenst work. just would like a good starting point.

afther the intro and main capitol ill probebly speed zipline to get willbreaker at croockspur
ill probebly start this weekend 
t
And do you prefere realtime or turn based?

 

thanks for the time and effeort by the way.

 

[Not So Clever Hound]

3 hours ago, LonelyFatGuy said:

Any starting tips for a fury/beguiler?
stat wise? and starting skills?

Personally, I would leave MIG, CON and RES at 10 and either put DEX, PER and INT at 16, or if playing POTD maybe max PER, then INT, then whatever left in DEX. Frenzy is most probably your first pick on the barb side, then Whispers of Treason probably - Eyestrike is nice too but it rolls against FORT so it won't land as easily early game even with Body Blows. You can pick later if you wish. Then you can be the Survival and Athletics guy, maybe also invest a bit in a social skill since you're the face of the party - Intimidate or Diplo. You're part Cipher so you can also in Mechanics if you wish, or leave that to a Rogue.

Before The Willbreaker, you can very early pick Saru Sichr in Arkemyr's Manor and it is a sweet sweet morningstar too.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Not So Clever Hound

[Boeroer]

8 hours ago, LonelyFatGuy said:

Any starting tips for a fury/beguiler?
stat wise? and starting skills?

The Fury is a Druid subclass. Based on what we talked about before I assume you mean the Furyshaper (Barbarian subclass).

A few attribute points here and there aren't too important imo and also depend a bit on the player and how he approaches combat and even more on the party composition (like what is the exact role of the character and how does he go about it). But my tipps align pretty much with those of @Not So Clever Hound:

INT:
I personally value INT a lot. Besides that a Furyshaper/Beguiler is - for me - first and foremost a debuffer. Damage dealing is the secondary concern.  So INT is great for that (long durations but also big area of effects - including the Carnage area). Hittig more enemies with Phantom Foes and Secret Horrors means (a lot) more focus generation, too.

PER:
Also nice in this case - because you want to hit enemies reliably with your debuffing tools before finally whacking them. Also, when playing with official companions noe of them has a very high PER score, and since PER is used for searching traps and secrets it's benefical to have a main character with a high PER score who can do that. Once spotted, traps and so on can be dealth with by a different character (the one with the highest mechanics skill). So you can totally split the searching and the disarming between two party members - no problem. 

DEX:
It's always nice to have good DEX, especially when casting/summoning is involved - because it not only shortens your recovery from actions but also the action/animation times as well. And casting spells/summoning wards usually takes much longer than executing a weapon attack. So high DEX not only makes you do stuff faster, it also makes your character more reactive in combat and also more versatile: he can react to unforeseen situations more quickly. This has more impact than it seems at first (imo). It also looks less sluggish (=better).  

MIG:
That wouldn't be very important in this case for me. A mid score is fine. You'll also get +5 from Frenzy. Don't go below 10 though because this leads to a damage malus that is calculated in a way that it hurts more than one would think.

CON:
As a melee guy without stellar defense against weapon attacks I wouldn't drop CON too much. But since it's a Barbarian with access to high base health and Fit from Frenzy (+5 CON) and also some armor abilities I wouldn't raise it high either. Going high CON def. can make the fights for a non-tanky melee guy less stressful, but you will be able to charm/dominate enemies, paralyze them, terrify them and so on so in the long run you shouldn't receive too much punishment on the battlefield. In the early game I would grab an Amulet of Greater Health if I could find it and tha should make things cool . If not needed: even better.

RES can be great - in this case I would either dump it completely or just keep it mid. Furyshapers seem to have anger management issues and this would explain low RES to me, hehe.  

 

I personally would maybe go like this (high doesn't necessarily mean maxed):

MIG: mid (not below 10 bc. damage malus does hurt a lot because it's not additive)
CON: mid (can go below 10 - health malus is additive and not that bad)
PER: high
DEX: high
INT: high
RES: low

For active skills I'd prefer athletics - but I almost never use consumables (which can be very strong). So if you want to use potions and scrolls etc. you should invest in Alchemy or Arcana.
Passive skills I always give a good stretch so that it fits the character. This is best for dialoge options and scripted scenes. There are some items that scale with passive skills (see Giftbearer's Cloth, Captain Samelia's Legacy and more) - if you want to use those it makes sense to max that one particular skill. 

 

8 hours ago, LonelyFatGuy said:

Or a link to one? havent found anything sadly

Sorry, don't have one.  I think there's othing here in this forum that's more than some theorycrafting. I have successfully played such a character but didn't write it down in detail.

Most precious abilities for me would be (Spirit) Frenzy, Fear Ward (automatic pick), Thick Skinned, Barbaric Shout, Brute Force, Blood Thirst, Secret Horrors, Phantom Foes, Whispers of Treason and Puppet Master. Also later Leap (so nice bc. you can use it out of comat from free for some cool movement actions and "sneaking" past guards etc.).

You want some engagement slots (see Barbaric Shout and Thick Skinned) because once enemies become terrified (for example from your Fear Ward) they will often disengage - which will give you free disengagement attacks which really hurt. But in order to get those you have to engage first (there will be a green "arrow-line" to indicate engagement).

Good luck!

PS: sometimes your summoned wards will get targeted by enemies because they have rel. poor defenses and health. When they get destroyed it's quite bad for you. This can become annoying. Best solution imo: a Priest in the party who can cast "Withdraw" (spell lvl 2) on the ward. The ward will become untouchable/invincible - but it will still work just fine like it's supposed to.
Second best option imo is to summon them in a place where enemies won't get to them so quickly. But that's no solution against ranged enemies. There are also other spells that might work (Pain Block or so). 

PPS: charmed enemies normally flip back to enemy status if you hurt them. However, if you only apply a damage over time-effect like Disintegrate or Soul Ignition they do not! Both of those target fortitude - so it's cool to cast Scret Horrors (sicken: -10 fortitude, frighten: -10 will) and then hit with the Morning Star + Spirit Frenzy (another -35 fortitude, +3 Will from Willbreaker), then charm (another -10 Will) and then cast Disintegrate agaisnt the low fortitude. The enemy will stay charmed and fight for you, but it will also die so after the charming it will most likely fall apart. This takes some casting time ad fuss so I wouldn't do it against the easy enemies - but some tough nuts can get cracked pretty nicely that way.
  

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Boeroer

[LonelyFatGuy]

On 1/21/2023 at 12:51 AM, Boeroer said:

Furyshaper/Soulblade or Furyshaper/Beguiler with Morningstar is a really nice combo. I think I'd prefer Beguiler because it's more versatile in terms of focus generation.

Cipher has no summons - so there's no problem with the Furyshaper's wards. Also Iron Will of the Chipher balances out the drawback the Furyshaper has (lowered Will). Secret Horrors (frightens and sickens) in combination with Spirit Frenzy (dazes) lowers Fortitude of enemies by 20 points which stacks with the Morning Star modal (-25 Fortitude) which is great in combination with the Barbarian's ability "Brute Force".

 

 

Damn thanks man !

[Boeroer]

Getting the Fear Ward takes some levels. Same with Spirit Frenzy. Before those the upsides of a Furyshaper aren't that obvious and you might think "well... why did I take a Furyshaper in rhe first place?"

But once all the pieces of the "synergy-puzzle" fall into place I think it is a very rewarding combo. It doesn't take much fiddling to lower enemies' Will and Fortitude completely into the ground and disabling them hard before hitting them - and this is not only making things easy for you but for the whole party, too. 

Imo if one thinks at some point in the early game "well this doesn't feel spectacular" it just needs a few more levels. The Fear Ward, if used right - like... debuffing Will of enemies beforehand with RES-/INT-afflictions, Willbreaker, clubs, spells (Miasma of Dull-Mindedness from a buddy wizard is your very best fried by the way!) is a devastating tool to have combined with all the other goodies. 

Once it works you can (if you want to) also build your party a bit around the effects of the main character - like giving a melee damage dealer more engagments to profit more from the terrified enemies breaking engagement, favoring spells that target Will (see several chanter invocations, priests' offensive spells, Cipher stuff etc.)  and Fortitude (lots of Wizard and Druid spells) and so on. 

Edited January 28, 2023 by Boeroer