EnderAndrew Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Buddhism is based on four truths (or one truth see in four steps depending on how you see it). Suffering is caused by desire. Yet, the goal is Buddhism is to change. Isn't the desire to change a desire in and of itself? Hmmm.... "I'm questioning my education Rewinding, what does it show? Could be, the truth, it becomes you I'm a seed wondering why i'm grown." -- Eddie Vedder of Pearl Jam, Education Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Surlent Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 I'd guess they define the word desire differently..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightblade Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Do you brush your teeth because you desire white beautiful teeth? Most people do it because it's a necessity. After you've practiced zazen for a few years, you do it without much desire. You do your daily mental "cleaning" because it helps you maintain a certain clarity. When zen becomes a daily practice, and you see how hard it is to change, the desire for bliss or enlightenment slowy diappears, and you're left with a stable and down-to-earth everyday activity. People who desire bliss or enlightenment misunderstand. What they really desire is an end to their problems and mental blocks, which can lead to greater openess and a more fulfilling life. What really drives a zen-buddhist is great doubt and great determination. These qualities aren't born from desire, they're a curse that you're either born with, or develop during life. If you're into zen b/c you desire change/bliss/enlightenment, you'd better change your routines instead. Zazen isn't going to make you happier. Actually it's mostly the other way around. You become more depressed when you start seeing how wrong you were, and how miserable your really are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderAndrew Posted June 8, 2004 Author Share Posted June 8, 2004 Buddhism has many sects and off-shoots. Thusly I try not to get too specific when discussing Buddhism. At the moment, I'm in the middle of The Dhammapada. However when I discuss Buddhism, I try to stick close to the basic tenets of Buddhism that seem relatively universal to the varying sects. This particular thought, that the desire to change was a desire in and of itself just happened to pop into my head while listening to Pearl Jam's Lost Dogs album. (A great buy BTW). If you're happy with Zen-Buddhism, great. If it isn't desire that motivates you, then why do you get up each day? Why do you believe the things you believe? Why do you adhere to certain tenets and practices? What do you strive for? Why do you strive for it? I believe all humans have goals and objectives while they may be so simple that we overlook them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roshan Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Another thing that I find very strange is that Buddhists believe in reincarnation but reject the idea of a soul. According to Buddhism its just your karma which goes to another individual. So what then is the purpose of finding enlightenment? Whether you get to enlightenment or not, your just going to end up being dead and disappearing anyway. So theres no point seeking enlightenment? You might as well just live a normal life and enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderAndrew Posted June 8, 2004 Author Share Posted June 8, 2004 My intepretation is that Buddhism doesn't reject the concept of a soul, so much as the soul's individuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roshan Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 My intepretation is that Buddhism doesn't reject the concept of a soul, so much as the soul's individuality. I dont know. From my discussions with Buddhists it seems that they flat out reject the soul and believe that the karmas just go to another random person after your death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightblade Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 If you're happy with Zen-Buddhism, great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderAndrew Posted June 8, 2004 Author Share Posted June 8, 2004 Though I don't see it emphasized in every sect or text, there are places where Buddhism states that you don't exist. How can you see yourself clearly if you don't exist? Am I supposed to be a piece of a larger puzzle realizing my role to bring knowledge back to the larger self? If that is so, then wouldn't karma be a silly system under the common context that going good things reaps good karma? If we don't really exist in the big picture as individuals, then personal karma would seem to be a lie. There are Chinese thinkers who have suggested that the concepts of good and evil are meaningless. If you follow your dharma, to whatever end that entails, you receive positive karma. What is your take on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightblade Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Though I don't see it emphasized in every sect or text, there are places where Buddhism states that you don't exist. How can you see yourself clearly if you don't exist? Am I supposed to be a piece of a larger puzzle realizing my role to bring knowledge back to the larger self? If that is so, then wouldn't karma be a silly system under the common context that going good things reaps good karma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderAndrew Posted June 9, 2004 Author Share Posted June 9, 2004 Hmmm.... Where was it that I read that Buddha taught that selfishness was silly since the self doesn't exist? I've been really sleep deprived this week. But I know at least one sect had this take that the self was a lie. It really turned me off. Supposedly it was rooted directly in Buddha's teachings. I'm no expert on Buddhism. I try to study a little bit of all religions. Confucianism comes across as a crock to me. Sure the guy was smart. However, like much of the Hindu system, it appears to be a belief set created by those in control who wish to remain in control. I'm not a big fan of theocracies. And I'm not looking for definitive answers on Buddhism. There are far too many different sects and takes on Buddhism. I'm curious what your takes are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Child of Flame Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Confucius says: The man with nothing to lose, is the fiercest enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderAndrew Posted June 9, 2004 Author Share Posted June 9, 2004 Confucius say: Virgin like balloon. One prick, all gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Child of Flame Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Confucius say: Virgin like balloon. One prick, all gone. Man, that's deep. I'd better watch out for needles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightblade Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 But I know at least one sect had this take that the self was a lie. It really turned me off. Supposedly it was rooted directly in Buddha's teachings. And I'm not looking for definitive answers on Buddhism. There are far too many different sects and takes on Buddhism. I'm curious what your takes are. 'A lie' is a bit simple. From what I understand, we're all a result of hundreds of years of cultivation and breeding, trained in different ways, to see society and our own place in society in a special context. All our 'significant others' tell us who we are, teachers, parents and people with authority. All this did something to our minds, and led us to a point where we are trained to perceive the world in a certain way. According to the teacher I like to listen to, this is not the natural way. It's something artificial. The purpose of the Buddhist practice, is as I see it, to dissolve this artificiality in behaviour and perception. The end-result is a clear mind, where you see everything without distortion. I wouldn't say that any of this is a 'lie'. It has lead to the idea of an 'I', which is a very real mental-concept for most people. But according to those who no longer cling to the idea of an 'I', it's a concept you can do without, as it leads to nothing but trouble and suffering. Some call this 'concept' an 'illusion', a 'lie' etc. As for my take on it. I read and put together ideas from different traditions, and then create my own world-view. Then I discard it the next week, when I read something else. I've been going on like this for the last decade. It's fun to be an amateur-philosopher, but it's not very good zen-practice. Clinging to any mental-concept is a 'no-no' for those who wants to see their own true nature directly, at least when you practice. One places ones 'I' in this world-view that one develops, which makes the concept of 'I' even more complicated and complex. The best practice is just to be completely quiet, and pay attention to the breath, and your surroundings.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightblade Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Confucius say: Virgin like balloon. One prick, all gone. Man, that's deep. I'd better watch out for needles. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderAndrew Posted June 12, 2004 Author Share Posted June 12, 2004 I need to have Ender's Philosophy Hour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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