Build ideas in 2022

[SilverArrowsMP]

Not sure how many people are still active around here since the game is getting on in years now, but I personally am finally just getting around to playing it.

This is a pure opinion question... no need for "facts" here. I have scoured all the build guides I can find, tested a few for a bit. I am looking to do solo runs, starting on Normal just to get my feet wet. I have done solo runs in POE1, so it's not like I am unfamiliar with the series/those types of runs. I know a lot of people will probably say "Normal can be done with just about anything," but I would like to be able to progress to harder difficulties in the future.

Builds I have toyed with from guides or YouTube vids: Herald, Warcaller, SC Priest (Magran), Thaumaturge (Bloodmage), SC Wizard (No sub), Holy Slayer (GP/SF), SC Monk (Druggie boy... can never remember how to spell it), Swashbuckler (Devoted/SF I believe)

Liked: Builds with Cipher or Chanter that had "resource gen." I really like Cipher conceptually, but it seems like a lot of people are saying it's not on par with POE1 Cipher in terms of damage.
           Builds where I have reliable heals and not chugging potions.

Disliked: Builds that required "Bloodied" for some beneficial effects. I get nervous as a noob in that situation.
               Drug flavor Monk.
               Bloodmage. Again, they whole "hurt yourself as a benefit" is just not my style.
               Anything that is overly micro-managey. I need to learn to crawl before I can walk/run

Also, for the record, I would like to avoid "cheese" as far as things like the Strand spam. If it's movement/stealth "cheese" I am fine with that.

Anyway... the heart of the matter: What are your personal fav builds around Cipher or Chanter? SC or multi, doesn't matter. Doesn't have to be God-tier, just get me through Normal relatively pain free so I can learn stuff to move on to higher difficulties. Herald is probably my go to at this moment, but curious to hear from better builders than me.

Edited September 3, 2022 by SilverArrowsMP
Somehow I managed to post before I was actually finished typing lol

[Boeroer]

You should like Psion/Troubadour. It's one of the most versatile combos, both classes have "automatic" resource regain (only time has to pass), it has healing, summons, mind control and CC and damage. Another plus for solo: It was one of the builds that completed the Ultimate Challenge - so you know it's 100% valid for solo runs.
For me it also was one of the most enjoyable mluticlasses to play.

Imo players almost always initially underestimate Psion because they think the focus generation is slow. It it not because it a) scales with Power Level and b) it always works, even while you cast, attack, recover or are even unable to act (like when withdrawn). The only thing that stops it is getting damaged - but with a combo such as Troubadour that's rel. easy to avoid because of all the summons and charm/dominate.

[SilverArrowsMP]

58 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

You should like Psion/Troubadour. It's one of the most versatile combos, both classes have "automatic" resource regain (only time has to pass), it has healing, summons, mind control and CC and damage. Another plus for solo: It was one of the builds that completed the Ultimate Challenge - so you know it's 100% valid for solo runs.
For me it also was one of the most enjoyable mluticlasses to play.

Imo players almost always initially underestimate Psion because they think the focus generation is slow. It it not because it a) scales with Power Level and b) it always works, even while you cast, attack, recover or are even unable to act (like when withdrawn). The only thing that stops it is getting damaged - but with a combo such as Troubadour that's rel. easy to avoid because of all the summons and charm/dominate.

Sounds fun! Did a bit of searching and found a YT channel of someone that did The Ultimate with this spec, so I am just going to follow along with that.

[Vasvary5050]

@BoeroerI'm currently experimenting with different hired adventurers in my party on POTD upscaled. I've found a Psion to be great for certain long difficult fights (most notably against packs of ironclad constructs and steelclad prototypes where the Psion could just spam soul shock all fight long). As it happens I was also thinking about what might MC well with a Psion. How do you feel a Psion/Troubadour compares to a SC Psion? Obviously the Psion/Troubadour is more versatile but it has slower focus generation, slower access to higher tier abilities and a lower PL. I do love chanters and my current main character is already a Paladin/Troubadour, and yet 2 chanters would be nice. Is there anything else you would combine with a Psion (I would imagine druid or wizard would be the next best synergies after chanter)?

Edited September 3, 2022 by Vasvary5050

[abot]

Maybe a priest if you don't have one already, so they can give each other brilliant and the priest can cast salvation of time

[Boeroer]

14 hours ago, Vasvary5050 said:

How do you feel a Psion/Troubadour compares to a SC Psion? 

I played both SC Psion and Psion/Troubadour. The slower focus gain (it's not THAT much slower though) gets balanced out by the fact that the Troubadour generates 1 phrase very 3 secs. You can alternate invocation and cipher spell with almost no waiting time for new resources. Also the combination of multiple summons (and in case of Many Lives Pass By they don't even need any action time or recovery) with charm and dominate is incredibly powerful. Often there's only one enemy left who's not controlled - and that single enemy faces an army of summons and turned foes that make short work of him.

The most notable advantage of the SC Psion was (for me) that he reached Puppet Master a lot earlier.

14 hours ago, Vasvary5050 said:

Is there anything else you would combine with a Psion (I would imagine druid or wizard would be the next best synergies after chanter)?

Casters are good picks. I'd say Bloodmage would be nice because unlimited spells.

I can also see a nice synergy with Monk (Helwalker or Nalpasca). Monks have a good summoning ability, Duality of Mortal Presence:INT works very well for Cipher spells and so does Thunderous Blows. Dance of Death (and drugs for a Nalpasca) let you gain resources without doing anything (just avoiding getting hit - like with Soul Mind). If you use Xoti's Lantern you can gain 1 wound and 1 mortification from killing an enemy (or ally - like a dominated enemy), too. Mortification can be used for Enduring Dance of Death and Swift Strikes, wounds for summons, Thundering Blows and Duality. 

Psion/Ancient could be nice, too. Again good summons.

As @abotsaid: Psion/Priest would work. You can even gain focus while withdrawn.

I didn't play it, but Furyshaper/Psion might be a nice fit. Terrifying wards in combination with Secret Horrors, Mind Control and so on sound fun. 

A Ranger/Psion could gain great accuracy for single target CC (charm/dominate) and stuff like Disintegrate. Disintegrate works beautifully with Takedown Combo (all ticks get +100% dmg while Takedown Combo lasts - if you don't remove it by hitting the victim with an actual attack).

Edited September 4, 2022 by Boeroer

[Vasvary5050]

Thanks @Boeroer, this is really helpful information. I'm now very tempted to try a Psion/Chanter!

[SilverArrowsMP]

Abot's Ultimate run is the one I am actually watching/using as a template. I am tweaking it a bit for being on a lower difficulty.

So far, not bad. The only issue is interrupts/cast speed atm (haven't made it to Rapid Casting yet). First drake island, those Xaurip skimishers just interrupted me quite frequently. Like I would stealth, cast Psychovampiric Shield of the drake to start rolling my chants, then immediately backpedal as far as I could and those Xaurips still caught up to me before I could get a Wyrm cast off. Ended up having to use the leap boots ability to get away faster. And I did this at like, level 8 or 9 I think.

The thug fight on Dunnage... used the cameo thing, but once again had to use leap boots just to not be killed in the first 5 seconds of the encounter.

Other than that, nothing has been TOO difficult! And I am sure some of it is just me needing to learn better tactics. All in time!

[Boeroer]

When fights are difficult you can start them with a trap and then summon from stealth.

Not in the fight against "Eamund the Fox" in that Dunnage alley though. 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Boeroer

[SilverArrowsMP]

Quick question: is there objectively a best summon? Or is it more personal preference? I started with Skellies then took Wyrms, forgetting that when you respec you can't get back your choices made at character creation. So now I almost feel like I wasted a point(s) by having 2 different summons.

[Kaylon]

Best summon are by far the animated weapons because they're very sturdy, their accuracy/pen/damage scales and have also useful abilities. And if you're using summons often then the Animancer's cat is nice to have.

[Boeroer]

Imo the skeletons aren't such a waste of an ability point because they have engagement. That means they will always stop enemies' movement, which can be a useful "CC effect" in all stages of the game - even if their weapons don't scale at all and thus they will provide 0 offense at some point (worms, too by the way).

Also there are numerous tricks the party can use if you have skeleton summons available (see Grave Calling's Chilling Grave enchantment or a confused Berserker with Blood Thirst who's attacking the same target as the skeleton, killing some with Carnage - or even a single class Paladin with Devine Retribution who gets 2 Zeal for every skeleton that dies).

But the objectively best Chanter summons are indeed the Ancient Instruments of Death, especially the upgraded ones (because more).

Note that a Beckoner does not get (2*3)+1 = 7 weapons with the upgraded invocation but indeed 2*(3+1) = 8. They have less health and don't last as long, but the offensive output of 8 animated weapons is quite overwhelming. 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Boeroer

[abot]

> best summon
the animated weapons. until that...
level 1-2: the skeletons are good e.g. if you want to clear the 1st cave on POTD/solo from pesky acid bats without being their target. But never get the skeletons as your 1st invocation, you don't want to keep them forever but to respec as soon as you have the wurms. if you need some vessel cannon fodder at higher level for grave calling/engoliero fun, you will use the superior skellies chant anyway in the end.
asap: the Wurms: cheap/fast cast, fast, even on water, even if enemy frontliners manage to block them fast they can still target ranged enemies/pesky sigils from the distance while skellies/ogres would be not useful.
In my experience having summons with engagement (e.g. the ogres, not the low level skellies that suck after level 2) is rarely needed, the only melee enemies that change target to look for something else are usually nearly dead rogues and if you are ready for that you can paralyze/stun/charm them in time, so 3 wurms are usually more than enough to absorb most enemies attacks and still hit things at a distance easily.
Decent fire damage, decent health but not super sturdy so they still give back good damage when pain-linked and hit by a disengage attack, they are the perfect kamikaze to use with pain link disengage dance against a tough boss (e.g. fire dragon - you can damage her safely from distance this way while you recharge to try next disintegration/eld nary attack that you can manage to chant more easily  as the wurms are a cheaper summon compared to the ogres)
Ogres: good when fire damage does not work well or you really need engaging, crush damage is one of the best and they have also nice area attack + robust. Alternate with the wurms until you get the animated weapons. But often 3 wurms are better than 2 ogres.
The animated weapons are almost always better after you have them, except maybe the rare cases when you need more crush/fire damage or to spare some chant point for e.g. eld nary

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by abot

[dgray62]

@abot, do you recommend the PL 4 upgrade to the wurms?

[abot]

> do you recommend the PL 4 upgrade to the wurms?
Like the low level skeletons, it depends on your level. If/when you have enough INT/Power level to be able to keep PL 2 wurms (always) up + get enough phrases back to cast some Eld Nary/Seven Nights it is probably not worth. So I'd say at level 15/16 better to have them PL2 and spare the phrases to invoke something else too (e.g. Eld Nary/Seven Nights, I like Eld Nary more mostly because it is easier to target from a distance).
E.g. fighting the fire dragon at level 15 lately I have used  pain linked wurms + some eld nary + borrowed instinct/secret horrors/disintegration from safe distance

Edited September 6, 2022 by abot

[dgray62]

Thanks! I see that with pain link the upgrade really isn't necessary.

[DarleneKarcher]

Thanks all for the suggestions. I am new here and I recently started playing this game. That is why I don't have enough information and came here to get some help and buid ideas is one of them.