SC (single class) Fighter worth it? (Damage dealer, Devoted, Sanguine greatsword)

[Moritsuna]

I've been searching for any posts on pure fighter and not coming up with much - Of course, with a berserker MC, you get way more crit chance which also stacks with stuff like devil of caroc breastplate for health, and more damage with crit in general. 

Still, stuff like inspired strikes, (lvl 9 fighter), being empowered, plus using a legendary sanguine greatsword sounds really tasty on paper. At least for that one super powerful attack, (Ofc, berserker would have higher DPS in the fight).

I guess my question is, outside of that one uber empowered strike for the lulz, does SC fighter offer something I'm missing in comparison to SC or MC berserker? 

[Elric Galad]

I would say it is rarely worth it.

Inspired strike is overcosted, does not work with AoE weapon, and Empowering it would burn so much ressources that you will fill naked for middle to long duration battles.

Sundering blow is great though, especially with AoE weapons such as mortars or rods. Clear Out upgrades are nice, but Clear Out on its own is good enough and can benefit from MC talents. Black Jacket + varied weapon + Clear Out upgrades can be fun, but that's not what you intend to play.

[Boeroer]

I find it hard to justify picking a SC Fighter. The highest power level abilities are just not good enough. Clean Sweep/Clear the Path are great - but as Eric already said:

Clear Out is sufficient and available for multiclasses. The rest is just... boring and a little weak, too.

[Haplok]

IMO a pure Fighter will never be even a half-decent damage dealer. Tank, sure. Battlefield controller, yes. But a damage dealer? Nah.

You have fighter multiclasses with rogue, monk or barbarian for that.

[Boeroer]

I wouldn't say "never". If you have some means of regaining Discipline (for example by being a Tactician or having a Cipher or whatever) then Clear the Path with Cleaving Stance can be very potent (especially with weapons that have or can trigger a AoE component) while its broad + very long AoE is not reliant on INT (unlike Clear Out). But getting there is harder as a SC Fighter - and quite frankly it's also rel. boring to get there. The fighter tree has it's most exiting active and pasive abilites pre PL 8 imo and works better as MC than as SC. 

But being able to use Clear the Path often is def. decent damage potential (and also impactful CC on top). Cean Sweep, too (needs high INT to be great though). I just wish it could be combined with some other cool PL8/9 stuff from the Fighter tree. Like... Chopping Wood doesn't even work properly with Clear Out + upgrades.  

Compare that with a combo of Barb or Monk with Fighter and how fun it can be to combine all those passives and actives. *sigh*   

 

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by Boeroer

[thelee]

possibly there's some party synergy to be had with toughened fury, and if so, then a SC fighter also has the advantage of upgrading a few abilities (and also sundering blow or take the hit). SC fighter is probably just way under-explored honestly.

 

though i actually think having clear the path as an upgrade is worlds better than just vanilla clear out and worth SC on its own, if that's the angle you're going for. i did it once in an aborted run, and had a lot of fun with it, sheer mayhem.

Edited September 9, 2021 by thelee

[Boeroer]

Yes, Clear the Path is pretty cool. Sundering Blow also isn't bad (but maybe a bit too weak or PL9).

The rest of the lot is way too expensive. Especially because you can't get Discipline back easily (except Tactician maybe).

I tried to make Take the Hit (with Furrante's Breastplate, Voidward, Cadhu Scalth, Death's Maw and all shenanigans) and Toughened Fury (with deliberately lowered deflection via low RED, Cap of the Laughingstock, Sandals of the Water Lily etc.) work though - and still they are not worth going SC imo. If Toughened Fury gave you Discipline for every - or every second - crit you receive: maybe. Take the Hit: if the damage received would be a bit lower than which is done to allies it would be worth it maybe. And the AoE needs to be way bigger to be useful. I understand that it sounds a bit weird to "take a hit" for somebody who's meters away from you - but hey: it's some sort of essence-induced fighter magic so let's just roll with it.

For Chopping Wood to be good it needed a duration or a counter. For example: after empowering an ability your attacks will have the effects for the next 15 secs or whatnot. 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

11 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

The rest of the lot is way too expensive. Especially because you can't get Discipline back easily (except Tactician maybe).

I tried to make Take the Hit (with Furrante's Breastplate, Voidward, Cadhu Scalth, Death's Maw and all shenanigans) and Toughened Fury (with deliberately lowered deflection via low RED, Cap of the Laughingstock, Sandals of the Water Lily etc.) work though - and still they are not worth going SC imo. If Toughened Fury gave you Discipline for every - or every second - crit you receive: maybe. Take the Hit

Sundering Blow feels balanced to me. It is one of the rare SC Fighter abilities I didn't buff with my mod and I was still using it very often. Targeting Def, done through an attack, rod/WotEP abuses make it superior to Rust which is already Tier 7.

Toughened fury is counter intuitive for a class with so high defense. I've set it to 8% on damaged and it still doesn't provide that much ressources. 

Take The Hit shouldn't take any time. Spending a standard attack action time just to transfer damages isn't worth it. I also deleted the cost since Tier 9 abilities shall be worth it and Discipline is scarce.  Upgrading AoE wouldn't be a real buff : you need to control a bit how many allies you get damages from. If all summons are affected, good luck surviving the next fireball ! If Take the Hit transferred attacks and not damages, it would be better with fighter defenses. As it is I see it only as a barely convenient damages management tool.

11 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

 

For Chopping Wood to be good it needed a duration or a counter. For example: after empowering an ability your attacks will have the effects for the next 15 secs or whatnot. 

It is close to the usual treatment I gave to all Empower Passives : 20% of chopping wood last for the rest of battle after having be used once for Empower.

[thelee]

8 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Toughened Fury (with deliberately lowered deflection via low RED, Cap of the Laughingstock, Sandals of the Water Lily etc.) work though

i was thinking along the lines of -- low reflex and having tanglefoot or something like that. would that also trigger toughened fury?

 

i guess the proc rate is extremely low either way...

[thelee]

7 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

I also deleted the cost since Tier 9 abilities shall be worth it and Discipline is scarce.

yeah, i think if the designers had more time, they should've done a cost-pass on martial abilities.

fighter in particular suffers from the fact that knock down/mule kick are eternally useful abilities and suffer particularly from "would i rather do X ability once, or mule kick Y times?"  I occasionally do power/inspired strike when there's lots of concentration or immunity to interrupts at play, but most of the time, I'd rather just do Mule Kick 4 times.

[Elric Galad]

7 minutes ago, thelee said:

yeah, i think if the designers had more time, they should've done a cost-pass on martial abilities.

fighter in particular suffers from the fact that knock down/mule kick are eternally useful abilities and suffer particularly from "would i rather do X ability once, or mule kick Y times?"  I occasionally do power/inspired strike when there's lots of concentration or immunity to interrupts at play, but most of the time, I'd rather just do Mule Kick 4 times.

I think it's true for other martials :

- Spamming FoD/LoH/Sworn ennemies work better than basically any higher level paladin abilities

- Spamming Crippling Strike often works better than higher tier attacks (but Gouging Strike is cool, as well as SC Rogue's Gambit and Vanishing Strike). Invisibility stuff is too costly. You're better spamming more crippling strikes. 

- Barbarian can basically spam only Spirit Tornado and (for SC) Driving Roar/Dazing Shout and still be fine. You can even say they are optimal this way.

- Accurate Wounding Shot basically does as much damages as Twin Shots which is twice the price (so you'll be only using the later for 2 handers procs Shenanigans)

- Monks... well Monks are fine, as always.

 

The fact that SC get less total ressources than MC make it worse.

Edited September 10, 2021 by Elric Galad