I want to play a berserker shifter for roleplaying reasons, but can't justify taking berserker over assassin. Am I wrong in my assessment that shifter/assassin is better in every way?

[Ouroboros226]

Not as a tank but as an off-tank and damage melee dps, I wanted to play a berserker shifter for RP purposes.

However I'm having a hard time deciding because the theorycrafter and min-maxer in me can't see assassin/shifter as anything other than a straight up upgrade. Against bosses as assassin/shifter, you can immediately land a dot that will last the entire fight. So that the boss is on a doom clock if you survive long enough. Against encounters, an assassin/shifter can straight up delete the highest threat target immediately with double damage assassinate, then you can smoke and basically insta-gib 1-3 more targets. Giving you a rather immediate advantage in every fight. 

Even when out of guile to assassinate targets, deep wounds with say - boar form for even more dots - can deal tremendous sustained damage against bosses or single targets. Can riposte and gain huge bonuses from sneak attack.

So berserker/shifter - the class I actually WANT to play... you get powerful stat bonuses (damage, speed, pen, crit, armor) so it has way better "core" stats. However due to the passive to get action speed on kill, you are actually encouraged to go for the WEAKEST targets first for the power boost, then you become even more of a murder machine. The overall passive bonuses to berserker is also great. However the berserker don't have +acc on their main damage attack, the brutal attack. I feel like you are forced to max PER on barb to counter this weakness. 

So assassin shifter you can go 10/10/medium/medium/max/10. But as a berserker shifter I think you'd need to go more like 10/12+/13-16/max/max/10. Berserker is more dependent on stats. I really wanted to play a bloodthirsty shapeshifter. A death godlike w/o weapons that shifts into an unstoppable monster that rips limbs off and charges in like an unstoppable killing machine. However... it seems to me that assassin is better for high health / strong single targets, bosses, prolonged fights. The berserker is only better against encounters with many medium/weaker mobs and adds. In other words, berserker/shifter is good where it matters least. Assassin/shifter is good where it matters most.  

  

Can you veterans here give me some feedback on my analysis of these two? Can you convince me / sell me, on a shifter/berserker which is the class I actually WANT to play? I just can't seem to justify the pick, because I'm also a min/maxing theorycrafting enthusiast, not just a roleplayer So both have to make the fit. 

[Exanos]

Well, you are not wrong, assassin/shifter will do more damage against boss. It will also help land some hard cc. But do you really need it? In group fight, high prioritie are usually caster, berseker/shifter will kill them nearly as quickly than assassin anyway. You will burn guile at fast speed with assassin if you want to go invisible often leaving you with slower aa. Berseker can get some rage back if they time their bash when ennemy is near death. 

On boss fight, boar dot alone melt them anyway. And how many " hard boss" fight vs group fight? 

For RP (the most important for me), assassin/shifter is like a shadow beast killing slowly when no one is looking like in theses horror movie, while berseker/shifter is this mad bloodied beast rampaging the battle field at insane speed, leaping from one group to another and howling, leaving enemy in terror, unable to do anything. 

One is a chirurgical beast, the other an atomic one who is not that far behind in 1v1, thanks boar form...

 

[Boeroer]

You are focusing on the initial strike. Sure, that's nice, especially bc. of the higher accuracy. Gouging Strike is good against big bosses, no doubt (but you can always do the same with Lover's Embrace and Leap and a potion of invisibility). Also with a well-placed CC from stealth or invisibility you can have a big impact. 

But against mobs the Berserker/Shifter will have a clear "fun" advantage due to Carnage and attack speed - and at least once you get Blood Thirsty and combine it with a well placed Plague of Insects + Infestation of Maggots (or Nature's Terror + Relentless Storm to use the Tenacious PEN) before shifting you will see what I mean.  

It also depends on solo vs. party. Solo I would prefer Assassin no doubt. 

 

[Ouroboros226]

Thanks for sharing Exanos. Shadow wolf or blood wolf - aaah! I can't decide I feel like no matter which I pick I'd want to play the other.   

Edit: And to you Boeroer. Hmm... it's so haaard. Both picks are so cool thematically. 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Ouroboros226

[Exanos]

4 minutes ago, Ouroboros226 said:

Thanks for sharing Exanos. Shadow wolf or blood wolf - aaah! I can't decide I feel like no matter which I pick I'd want to play the other. 

Welcome to my life, i have a save for nearly every shifter multi combination and can't decide wich one i want to play. I keep swapping... they are just all that fun!

[Boeroer]

If you have a Chanter in the party then Berserker/Shifter will be a lot better (in most encounters) because his confused Carnage will kill weak summons like the skeletons from "Many Lives Pass By" which will trigger Bloodlust and Blood Thirst as well as healing from a pet (there are some which heal on kill) which makes him attack and cast so quickly it's mind-blowing. Also prolongs Blood Storm. 

Confused Berserker using AoE healing and stuff like Relentless Storm is super tricky though! Prepare to use Svef to end confusion or use Devil of Caroc Breastplate or Modwyr to end the confusion when shifting back (or prevent confusion in the first place by casting Frenzy before shifting).

Vid (spoiler tags to allow browsing the forum without having to load the vid every time):

 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Boeroer

[Ouroboros226]

15 minutes ago, Exanos said:

Welcome to my life, i have a save for nearly every shifter multi combination and can't decide wich one i want to play. I keep swapping... they are just all that fun!

And now I noticed that inspiring triumph as a fanatic would mean 2x on kill effects, + paladin removing confuse at PL4. So now I want to play that...  

I'll never complete this game. I think I've played 10 characters to Neketaka so far. I just can't stick with one character... heeeeeeeeeeeelp

[Exanos]

4 minutes ago, Ouroboros226 said:

And now I noticed that inspiring triumph as a fanatic would mean 2x on kill effects, + paladin removing confuse at PL4. So now I want to play that...  

I'll never complete this game. I think I've played 10 characters to Neketaka so far. I just can't stick with one character... heeeeeeeeeeeelp

I hear you . I have the same issue. Things that can help : focusing on RP ( a good portrait help), playing with recruited goon (you can leave story companion at home or bring just one or two).

[Boeroer]

Roleplaying, giving your char a unique face and mentally investing in the (back)story does indeed help a lot. Even if you're doing your umpteenth playthrough.  

Berserker/Paladin is indeed a nice combo.
And there also is the Goldpact/Shifter who can achieve enormous AR with 0 recovery penatly which makes him sturdy af but at the same time a good damage dealer.

Err... I guess I'm not helping...  

Edited August 28, 2021 by Boeroer

[Exanos]

2 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Err... I guess I'm not helping...  

Well, you didn't tell him about pala/shifter stacking sacred immolation and nature terror, or beastmaster and his pet holding the line all day long or even hellwalker/shifter insta  cc/killing ennemy group with spells or high priority target with  flagellant path, and god forbid speaking about thundercat... 

...

...oh wait...

...

 

[dgray62]

7 hours ago, Ouroboros226 said:

Thanks for sharing Exanos. Shadow wolf or blood wolf - aaah! I can't decide I feel like no matter which I pick I'd want to play the other.   

Edit: And to you Boeroer. Hmm... it's so haaard. Both picks are so cool thematically. 

Why don't you try one as an MC, and bring along the other as a custom hireling for your party? If you realize that the hireling's build is better you can always restart. It never hurts to have two shifters in a party IMO.