Question about berserker self-inflicted damage

[Ouroboros226]

Hi!

I was wondering about the berserker's self-inflicted damage. I googled a bit and found out that it actually SCALES with your character level?! I want to make a berserker for my main character, and I have googled the solutions to confusion - so that's covered. Health being hidden isn't an issue either.  

That only leaves the self damage and I need some info and advice here. Just how bad does it become as you level up? I mean - if you are not in the frontline but safely in the backline, does it matter much? Does it only deal like 10-20% of your health with say 10 con base? Or are we talking so much damage that in a prolonged fight - if you didn't get a heal you'd actually die from it? 

The issue I'm struggling with is how to best deal with the self damage, and I need to know roughly how bad it gets. I was hoping 1 potion or second wind per fight would be all, but if my health is dropping like crazy constantly - I think the berserker is too much management. Will I hate my character later on for taking berserker?   

  

Edit: Also wondering about the shout ability. Doesn't seem worth it imo, 4.0s recovery time for a shaken debuff only. Seems kinda bad when considering opportunity cost of less brutal attacks?

Edited August 26, 2021 by Ouroboros226

[Boeroer]

The self damage doesn't scale with character level but power level. If you increase your power level (level-ups but also buffs from items, abilities and/or food) you increase your self damage. 

It also gets influenced by your MIG. More MIG = higher dmg. If you pick an Assassin or Helwalkers it gets boosted by those passives, too.

You will die from the self damage if you don't heal. Maybe it's possible to not die If you boost your CON (never tried) but with a high MIG score and only mediocre CON you will die from it. Savage Defiance does help if nobody else can heal you. Also heal-on-kill stuff like Abraham pet (health on kill). Weapons/items that heal (regeneration gear) or heal on crit (see Devil of Caroc Breastplate for example).

The healing on kill or crit also works on friendly targets - for example skeletons from a Chanter. 

Countermeasures besides healing is stuff that reduces incoming dmg. For example the Voidward Ring (helps a lot). There's also food etc. 

You can manage that - but it takes some time to fine-tune it. In the early game encounters are short and the self damage is lower - so it's manageable until you find your right setup. Bit it def. needs more attention than with other barbs.

The shouts are extremely good at power level 9 (single class). Both of them. The Roar is doing tremendous dmg and had a CC component while the Shout has a huge AoE.  

For multiclass Barbs one must decide if they are worth it: besides the shaken affliction the one interrupts and throws down in a line (can be useful if you are playing a disrupter) and the other gives you +3 engagement (can be useful for a frontliner). If you are a damage dealing, multiclassed quarterstaff user for example they might not be worth it.

 

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Boeroer

[Ouroboros226]

Thank you Boeroer! I'm actually considering dropping it. Thing is I'm going to play ranged. Do you think chugging potions for the +2 pen and armor is worth it still? I got obsessed with pen for new characters after doing Arkemyr's mansion. Because I got so mad killing one iron golem took like 10 minutes  Arkemyr's mansion, and other encounters with high armor enemies - are SUCH a slog!!!   

  

If I can get through iron golem+ armor with pen I'll be happy. Maybe if I'm just looking for pen - as ranged - rogue is better since they have 1 resource +2 pen attacks dunno. 

[Not So Clever Hound]

8 minutes ago, Ouroboros226 said:

If I can get through iron golem+ armor with pen I'll be happy.

You can diminish the gap between PEN and AR with other tools and classes than Berserker, which IMO is not super useful if you're doing a ranged weapon char (it's still great for e.g. Bloodmage/Berserker). Devoted/Cipher for example can enjoy +3 PEN with a chosen weapon, then you have the Sharpshooter ring for +1 PEN... the Assassin conditional bonus is of course amazing too. You also have potions, spells/invocations...

The Iron and Steelclad constructs in particular are weak to Shock damage, so you can use Essence Interrupter, Lord Darryn and of course spells like Chain Lightning, invocations like Her Revenge... to your advantage.

[Ouroboros226]

39 minutes ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

You can diminish the gap between PEN and AR with other tools and classes than Berserker, which IMO is not super useful if you're doing a ranged weapon char (it's still great for e.g. Bloodmage/Berserker). Devoted/Cipher for example can enjoy +3 PEN with a chosen weapon, then you have the Sharpshooter ring for +1 PEN... the Assassin conditional bonus is of course amazing too. You also have potions, spells/invocations...

The Iron and Steelclad constructs in particular are weak to Shock damage, so you can use Essence Interrupter, Lord Darryn and of course spells like Chain Lightning, invocations like Her Revenge... to your advantage.

Thank for the advice  I decided to go with rogue, as they have good pen abilities also without a big downside. Invis if they gapclose. So they are weak to shock hmmm... I read expert mode hides weakness stats which is why I couldnt see it I guess. Without spoiling anything - are there high armor mobs even worse than iron golems later on? I havent gotten that far in the game yet. Rerolled like 10 times but only starting island and neketaka, as well as deadlight.

[Elric Galad]

Is there a point to High MIG with Barbarians though ? Unless going for SC abilities, DEX is much better for auto attacking and you'll get +5 MIG from Frenzy anyway. Maybe for Frenzy upgrades damages ?

I won't prioritarize it with a barbarian. Of course it depends on MC etc...

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, Ouroboros226 said:

Thank you Boeroer! I'm actually considering dropping it. Thing is I'm going to play ranged. Do you think chugging potions for the +2 pen and armor is worth it still? I got obsessed with pen for new characters after doing Arkemyr's mansion. Because I got so mad killing one iron golem took like 10 minutes  Arkemyr's mansion, and other encounters with high armor enemies - are SUCH a slog!!!   

  

If I can get through iron golem+ armor with pen I'll be happy. Maybe if I'm just looking for pen - as ranged - rogue is better since they have 1 resource +2 pen attacks dunno. 

Potentially early encountered Iron- and Steelclads are quickly dispatched by either raw dmg DoTs (e.g. Arterial + Gouging Strike + Strike/Ring the Bell) and/or by using Essence Interrupter (shock dmg which Iron-/Steelclads are vulnerable to).

A ranged Berserker is rel. easy to keep alive since the most common source of dmg will be his own. In combination with Blooded it's actually a nice thing to have.

In combination with a Devoted and Penetrating Strike you'll have less risk of dying (Constant Recovery) but you will have amazing +9 PEN without any consumables (+4 Penetrating Strike, +2 Devoted, +2 Tenacious, +1 Ring of the Marksman) and also good attack speed with good accuracy - or even great attack speed with reasonable ACC (Hunting Bow + modal - e.g. Essence Interrupter). The Berserker's crit conversion and Carnage will not work, but imo that's a small price to pay. Later Blood Thirst will be amazing.
I didn't play this though. Besodes a few tests it's theorycrafting.  

You can also combine Berserker with Streetfighter (combins solid PEN and raw DoTs) and use the self damage to reach bloodied (Blooded + Heating Up will kick in). This combo has less PEN (although plenty with Tenacious and Crippling Strike) but insane attack speed with a hunting bow + modal (and isn't devoted to a single weapon proficiency) and incredible dps. It has no build-in healing besides Savage Defiance though. I played it and it's a lot of fun especially in the very early game - despite combining two subclasses that seem to be made for something else. The attack speed is just so high that you can shoot down the entire Gorecci Street in no time - and it doesn't matter much that you will miss a couple of shots due to lowish ACC (from the Hunting Bow modal). It's literally *twang-twang-twang* because you will barely see the recovery bar. 

Kind of in between: Berseker/Sharpshooter. With Driving Flight though you can bring St. Omaku's Mercy or Veilpiercer to their full potential: the 50% recovery skip on crit also works with Driving Flight. And Blood Thirst will add to this skipping later on. I played this for some time. It's very good against mobs and especially low defense enemy casters. Against high defense single targets I then preferred to use a Hunting Bow (speed) or Arbalest (interrupts/prone).

I guess the most hands-off would be Devoted/Berserker. And its PEN comes online very early so it's suited to take on Whateverclads very early, too. The most jawdropping is Berserker/Streetfighter I guess. At least in the early game.  

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Boeroer

[Not So Clever Hound]

19 minutes ago, Ouroboros226 said:

Without spoiling anything - are there high armor mobs even worse than iron golems later on?

There are quite a few high AR mobs besides Ironclad and Steelclad, and you will also meet more of these constructs outside of Arkemyr's mansion. Some enemies also have straight-up immunities to certain damage types (e.g. Ironclads and Steelclads are immune to fire, certain undeads are immune to Pierce). It also depends on the difficulty you play at. Upscaled adds substantial AR scaling to all enemies which makes PEN such a pain.

For a first playthrough, maybe expert mode is a bit harsh .

[Boeroer]

Thare are some that are even worse than XClads. Also some already high AR foes do drop Llengrath's Safeguard which pisses off new players regularly who then come here an complain about it, haha.  

The solution to that can either be to lower the AR/PEN ratio* or raw damage. For example there are two weapons that have raw base dmg (one pistol and one sabre). Or use raw DoTs.

)* meaning: lower AR and/or raise PEN 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

Here's a short vid of a Berserker/Streetfighter who's currently frenzied, has Bloodlust, is Heated up, using the hunting bow modal and only attacks with auto-attacks (no sneak attack or Deathblows unlocked). DEX is 18. The initial 0-recovery is from a kill before (Blood Thirst). This attack speed is nearly the same as a lvl-1 Berserker/Streetfighter because Frenzy + Heating Up and Hunting Bow modal is all lvl1-material. THe rest adds a bit additional attack speed but the main bulk comes from those initial abilities. Auto-attacks' PEN is 13 with a Legendary weapon and Ring of the Marksman. Would be 11 with the initial exceptional Essence Interrupter. You can have three different dmg types with Hunting Bows: pierce/slash/shock. So most of times you'll penetrate well enough. For those encounter where that's not the case use Arteial Strike and Gouging Strike (and Deep Wounds and Blood Storm).  

Edited August 26, 2021 by Boeroer