Anime - Do you Understannnnnnndu?

[Bartimaeus]

Mm, while the themes of it appeal to me, I don't think the film itself will. You never know, it's possible it might work better actually seeing it, but... *removes bookmark*

Ah, Nanami's Egg, the episode that made me bring up this stupid show in this thread way back when and post that hilarious clip of it. I feel like Ikuhara should just stick to making surrealist...not comedy, but definitely comedic something, and not something like this that's instead all serious themes except for when it's not, which, by the way, is a terrible marriage for a show.

[majestic]

9 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

Ah, Nanami's Egg, the episode that made me bring up this stupid show in this thread way back when and post that hilarious clip of it. I feel like Ikuhara should just stick to making surrealist...not comedy, but definitely comedic something, and not something like this that's instead all serious themes except for when it's not, which, by the way, is a terrible marriage for a show.

Yeah, the bowling ball clip.

I'm getting the feeling that Chu-Chu is some sort of cosmic evil mastermind creature. He either was playing that prank on Nanami or he actually transformed into an egg and only, uhm, hatched near the end there.

Maybe he is a space alien?

10 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

Mm, while the themes of it appeal to me, I don't think the film itself will. You never know, it's possible it might work better actually seeing it, but... *removes bookmark*

I think so too. Feel free to bookmark the post and blame me later if you ever happen to see it and actually like it.

[Bartimaeus]

We thought he died and reincarnated somehow or something, .

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

9 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

We thought he died and reincarnated somehow or something, .

Anime in a nutshell tbh

[majestic]

2 minutes ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

Anime in a nutshell tbh

Utena is worse than that.

12 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

We thought he died and reincarnated somehow or something,

That's certainly possible. Who knows, between the cows, chickens, kangaroos, loose horses and whatever else is going on. Right, I forgot the Shadow Aliens.

[Bartimaeus]

Yeah, Utena doesn't even tell you what happened...a series of extremely ambiguous and seemingly mostly unrelated events occur, and it leaves you to try to figure out what the heck happened. If it straight up told us it was reincarnation, that would at least be a clear answer to what happened - instead it's just unexplained nonsense just like everything else.

[majestic]

I tried to binge myself through, but ended up playing Master of Orion 3 and a mobile game instead. Yeah, I don't think that's a good sign, is it?

edit:

Jury is kind of the only character I actually care about in the sense that I do mind when bad things happen to her, and the episode I'm watching now is essentially Jury torture porn. Great. What a mess.

I wonder about which blade they were talking about when Shiori mentioned polishing Ruka's sword every day. Was that intentionally vague or did that crop up in translation? Is that even an idiom like that in Japanese?

edit:

Look at that, Jury giving up after Utena cuts her locket off instead of her rose is something that's meaningful, profound and understandable. Even the Shadows have something useful to contribute.

Why isn't every episode like that?

edit:

Is there anyone on this show Akio isn't, uhm, sleeping with? Like anyone at all?

Edited July 24, 2021 by majestic

[majestic]

Why is Nanami so put out by Anthy being as much into her brother as she is into hers? Except they aren't related.

Also:

And... what's with Anthy's hair in that scene?

[Bartimaeus]

7 hours ago, majestic said:

Also:

Yeah.

9 hours ago, majestic said:

Is there anyone on this show Akio isn't, uhm, sleeping with? Like anyone at all?

Chu-Chu, probably. Probably.

9 hours ago, majestic said:

Jury is kind of the only character I actually care about in the sense that I do mind when bad things happen to her, and the episode I'm watching now is essentially Jury torture porn. Great. What a mess.

I wonder about which blade they were talking about when Shiori mentioned polishing Ruka's sword every day. Was that intentionally vague or did that crop up in translation? Is that even an idiom like that in Japanese?

edit:

Look at that, Jury giving up after Utena cuts her locket off instead of her rose is something that's meaningful, profound and understandable. Even the Shadows have something useful to contribute.

Why isn't every episode like that?

Because who cares about characters making sense when you can a mercurial plot instead?

[majestic]

I'm not sure yet and there's one more episode in the Othori arc, but it kind of looks like this round of duels really is an attempt by the characters to free themselves of their defining... problems and desires, in one way or the other. Maybe that's also why Toga is always saying his line about the soul not having given up yet.

Who knows for sure though. For all I know the next episode might just throw it all over.

There is Saionji who fights for Anthy one last time (presumably), and only creates a stronger bond between Anthy and Utena in the process, but also is now free of being entangled in the studen council and Toga's aspirations, realizing that he never was a friend to him.

Miki and Kozue get to resolve part of their problems trying to recapture the past and getting away from it respectively. With their father remarrying, they're prodded into action, but Miki still seems to want Anthy. Kozue at least seems to have dealt with her issues of abandonment (induced by their partens divorce). Saves a few birds in the process too.

Ruko, Shiori and Jury, well, I have no real idea what Ruko's deal was. He left as quickly as he showed up, but there's a case to be made that his actions freed Jury and Shiori of their unhealthy obsession with each other, and surpassing the other in the case of Shiori. Jury gets bonus points for freeing herself, more or less, by stopping the duel on her own free will, instead of being forced to.

Toga and Nanami have a manipulated falling out, and Nanami realizes that she doesn't want Toga like that. Also... barf. What a set of episodes. She needs to come to terms with not being special, but she's free of her Toga obsession. She fights the duel to prove that she's nothing like Anthy. Doesn't win, but also not necessary. The win was the realization in itself.

The question that remains is whether or not they'll make something off their freedom. Jury probably does, Kozue was never really part of it anyway, as was Shiori or Ruko. I'm guessing Nanami is done too. Not so sure about Miki and Saionji. Saionji has been curiously absent since the first episode of the arc, however that doesn't mean much. He repeatedly said he has no life outside of the Othori Academy.

That leaves Utena, obviously. That'll be something for her when she realizes that Akio is her prince (at this point, who else could it be) and that he's reaaaaaaaaaaaally into his sister. If that really is his sister, only Ikuhara knows what Anthy is really supposed to be. Hmmm.

Next up is apparently a Shadowplay clip show. Yay!

edit:

I'll just leave all the spoilers unmarked, it's not like anyone else is watching this AND it doesn't matter. Nothing of what I wrote there is actually in the show itself, that's just impressions you get from it. Or not, depending. Might as well be something else entirely for someone else. It's baffling.

Edited July 25, 2021 by majestic

[Bartimaeus]

Bizarrely, there's been a few times that after Utena has won a duel that the episode is ending and Utena sees whatever character(s) dueled her and is like "well, seems like they've worked it out" or "looks like they're feeling much better today" and then Anthy will contrarily state something like, "No, they're exactly the same as before." What's up with that?

Edited July 25, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[majestic]

6 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

Bizarrely, there's been a few times that after Utena has won a duel that the episode is ending and Utena sees whatever character(s) dueled her and is like "well, seems like they've worked it out" or "looks like they're feeling much better today" and then Anthy will contrarily state something like, "No, they're exactly the same as before." What's up with that?

Beats me too. I don't remember flying as blind as this in any TV show before.

[majestic]

Utena talks for what feels like minutes about making luch, and wonders if she could combine salmon, asparagus and some eggs with mayonnaise to make a sandwich, and I'm sitting here wondering if that's supposed to mean something.

Yeah, @Bartimaeus was right. It's about time this ends.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

16 minutes ago, majestic said:

Utena talks for what feels like minutes about making luch, and wonders if she could combine salmon, asparagus and some eggs with mayonnaise to make a sandwich, and I'm sitting here wondering if that's supposed to mean something.

That her taste belongs in the trash?

[Bartimaeus]

17 minutes ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

That her taste belongs in the trash?

In her defense... ACTUAL SPOILER:

Spoiler

She was just raped(?*) and consequently mentally spiralling and trying to understand why their food situation, which she and her betrothed Anthy normally manage so well, wasn't what it was supposed to be. It was a deliberately unpleasant scene to show that something was very wrong with her, that she was malfunctioning. It was probably one of the best-written and worst-feeling moments in the show.

*I'm not a hundred percent sure of this, like everything else in this show, but that seems to have been the implication.

 

Edited July 25, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[majestic]

19 minutes ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

That her taste belongs in the trash?

 

Spoiler

It's a bit more complicated than that, she does that after sleeping with her fiancee's brother, who is enganged to someone else, but also boffs his sister (as in, the girl who is her fiancee). Plus she's only enganged to Anthy because she won her in a duel with her former fiancee, Saionji (who is a friend of Feminist!Dio).

 

8 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

Spoiler

She was just raped(?*) and consequently mentally spiralling and trying to understand why their food situation, which she and her betrothed Anthy normally manage so well, wasn't what it was supposed to be. It was a deliberately unpleasant scene to show that something was very wrong with her.

*I'm not a hundred percent sure of this, like everything else in this show, but that seems to have been the implication.

 

 

Spoiler

Huh, look at that, I hadn't considered if that was consentual. Utena is in love with Akio, after all, so I presumed it was, but with Akio you never really know. Maybe the amusement park they went to was an allegory for something else, like drugs, alcoohl or whatever. Date rape? But she did wish Anthy would have come with*, perhaps she thought it would not have happened then? 

She did say she had fun though. Erm...

I was more like wondering if Utena wonders about her relationship with Anthy (whatever that is exactly, aside from owning her as the Rose Bride) in the form of a weird sandwich.

*Or you could follow this down a really creepy path and imagine that Utena might have wanted to include Anthy in, uhm, her affair. That would require her realizing what Nanami meant when she implied that. Which she didn't seem to. Oh, and be cool with that crap.

I wonder if she left the bread out.

Edited July 25, 2021 by majestic

[Bartimaeus]

Spoiler

If it was consensual, nothing about that scene makes any kind of sense - she is clearly mentally spiralling/malfunctioning because of it. I wouldn't put it past Ikuhara to make some sort of twisted point about someone you love/have a crush on still being perfectly capable of violating you.

 

Edited July 25, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Bartimaeus]

Spoiler

Also, note that when Utena was talking about how that day went, she only kept mentioning the other stuff that they did, not that. Not that she would anyways because this was a show made for TV that is clearly treading the line, but... She seemed very withdrawn and mentally unwell on the whole to me - I am choosing to interpret it that way, especially because...uh, somehow, that actually makes it less gross than if it wasn't. Somehow - I guess because Utena choosing to do it would be...an even greater ick. Akio is one of the biggest creeps I've ever seen in a show, and he does it all with that gentle smile of his, which puts him way above (well, below) other comically horrific creeps - in a way, he somehow feels more realistic and insidious than your average portrayal of a rapist.

 

Edited July 25, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[majestic]

10 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

  Hide contents

If it was consensual, nothing about that scene makes any kind of sense - she is clearly mentally spiralling/malfunctioning because of it. I wouldn't put it past Ikuhara to make some sort of twisted point about someone you love still being able to violate you.

 

 

Spoiler

Rape isn't exactly required to make Utena blue screen after essentially violating everything she wanted to be. She just did something that violates her morals, Akio's engagement, potentially destroyed her friendship and weird sort-of-whatever engagement with Anthy AND her feelings for someone she barely remembers. Even if that was fully consensual and a in the spur of the moment act, it goes against everything that she is, wants and strives to be.

That said, with the way this anime goes, I wouldn't put it past Akio to have helped things along. It would certainly be perfectly in-character for him.

As ridiculous as that may sound, she might end up blaming herself less for what happened if it actually happened without consent.

 

  

3 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

  Hide contents

Also, note that when Utena was talking about how that day went, she only kept mentioning the other stuff that they did, not that. Not that she would anyways because this was a show made for TV, but... She seemed very withdrawn and mentally unwell on the whole to me - I am choosing to interpret it that way, especially because...uh, somehow, that actually makes it less gross than if it wasn't. Somehow. Akio is one of the biggest creeps I've ever seen in a show, and he does it all with that gentle smile of his, which puts him way above (well, below) other comically disgusting creeps.

 

Perfectly possible, yes. It's so open to interpretation that there's no real clear cut answer.

edit:

I also haven't seen all of the anime yet, so maybe something later clears it up. I don't think there will be something that clears it up, but eh, sure.

Edited July 25, 2021 by majestic

[Bartimaeus]

That's definitely another way to interpret it, but for Utena's sake (as I outlined in the double post above the one you just made), I gotta interpret it my way for the sake of my own sanity.

Spoiler

Plus, Akio has already proven to be a rapist - I have no reason to give him any kind of benefit of the doubt when I could instead give it to Utena. Plus, your interpretation actually thematically works in addition to what I said even if it HAD been non-consensual.

 

Edited July 25, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[majestic]

2 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

That's definitely another way to interpret it, but for Utena's sake (as I outlined in the double post above the one you just made), I gotta interpret it my way for the sake of my own sanity.

  Hide contents

Plus, Akio has already proven to be a rapist - I have no reason to give him any kind of benefit of the doubt when I could instead give it to Utena. Plus, your interpretation actually thematically works in addition to what I said even if it HAD been non-consensual.

 

Works perfectly well indeed, just substitue not blaming herself for it with blaming herself for it because she might have done something to invite it happening, or couldn't resist. That sadly happens enough in real life too.

Spoiler

The absolute worst part of it was the talk on the phone between Anthy and Akio, that strongly implied Anthy even set that up in the first place. Ugh. Did you get the midnight roses?

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Violet Evergarden 3-5

Violet learns more about emotions by going to school, partying with a co-worker, and helping a princess.

I think the one-off characters are well developed, often more than much of Violet's co-workers at Lt. Col DIO's postal company. It makes sense given the premise of the show and isn't a bad thing, but right now I feel like I know less about that blonde dude who delivers letters than I do Violet's friend from school whose brother is a drunk. Overall it's been good to watch and I'd recommend it if you're looking for an anime that isn't about fighting and can deal with a very alienated teenage girl stumble through social interactions.

[Bartimaeus]

I finished Neon Genesis Utena.

Spoiler

That's an insult to Neon Genesis Evangelion's "CONGRATULATIONS!": this was much worse.

(E): OH CRAP THERE'S A MOVIE

Edited July 25, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

8 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

I finished Neon Genesis Utena.

  Reveal hidden contents

That's an insult to Neon Genesis Evangelion's "CONGRATULATIONS!": this was much worse.

(E): OH CRAP THERE'S A MOVIE

CONGRATULATIONS!

[majestic]

39 minutes ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

Violet Evergarden 3-5

Violet learns more about emotions by going to school, partying with a co-worker, and helping a princess.

No mention of a songstress means you forgot the first OVA, right?

41 minutes ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

I think the one-off characters are well developed, often more than much of Violet's co-workers at Lt. Col DIO's postal company.

Except Iris, of course... but you'll get bits and pieces of them through Violet working, but they do provide a stable backdrop for her to come back to. They're also mostly characters developed purely for the anime, the company was expanded a good deal to provide a backdrop for the first episodes that weren't adaptations from the light novel but almost entirely original content. Getting to know them takes a while - more than her clients, because they're co-workes, not people Violet interacts with for longer stretches of time during her visits with clients.

45 minutes ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

It makes sense given the premise of the show and isn't a bad thing, but right now I feel like I know less about that blonde dude who delivers letters than I do Violet's friend from school whose brother is a drunk.

Luculia has the best name Engrish in the history of Japanese. Rukuria Mōrubara is a far cry from Luculia Marlborough after all.

Spoiler

I thought the resolution to the third episode was incredible. Violet might not know much about writing letters yet (well, dealing with emotions), but that one was short and perfectly on point. That was pretty much the episode that sold me on the whole premise after wondering where this will be going in the first two.

 

1 hour ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

Overall it's been good to watch and I'd recommend it if you're looking for an anime that isn't about fighting and can deal with a very alienated teenage girl stumble through social interactions.

Hey, you're forgetting all those war flashback scenes that show how much of an awesome badass Violet was...

Spoiler

...except of course they're dark, uncomfortable, eerily resemble actual World War 1 footage and aren't meant to show how great fighting is.

 

25 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

I finished Neon Genesis Utena.

  Reveal hidden contents

That's an insult to Neon Genesis Evangelion's "CONGRATULATIONS!": this was much worse.