Making Aloth a skilled Rapier user

[Caran of Varn]

Looking at the forums, Aloth is typically built as pure Wizard. But what if you wanted to make him really good with a single rapier - would Battlemage or Spellblade suit him better then? I imagine the first one would make him able to wade into melee, while the other would focus more on the backstabs? I'd rather make him a Battlemage, but I'm curious what Deadfire veterans have to say about it

[Boeroer]

The unique Rapier Squid's Grasp has a nice enchantment that prevents getting flanked. Combined with Vigorous Defense and Wizard's buffs you can become very tanky. Becoming very tanky allows you to get threatened by multiple enemies without folding over which makes the other enchantment of Squid's Grasp accessible a lot more often: the 20% speed bonus (which stacks with stuff like Deleterious Alacrity etc.). Combined with Armored Grace and a pet like Abraham you can achieve good Rapier dps while being very sturdy. But you'll need some alternative weapon (or use spells) against pierce resistant/immune foes. 

So Battlemage would be my way to go - with Squid's Grasp at least.

If you are aiming for Rännig's Wrath it depends on the enchantments. For a Spellblade I would prefer the flanking DMG bonus + the PEN bonus on crit while for a Battlemage I would pick the 10% chance to skip recovery after getting missed (which works well with the small shield modal by the way).

For late(ish) game the Battlemage has better synergy since stuff like Vigorous Defense and Unbending can be prologed with Wall of Draining which will make you unkillable for a long time. 

 

[Caran of Varn]

Thank you! I was indeed aiming for Rännig's Wrath, maybe with a buckler, like you suggest.

[thelee]

For late game, wizards get a soulbound rapier in SSS. teh big thing is that it does stacking raw damage DoT, and it gives some extra mobility as well. Might also be worth looking at.

[Caran of Varn]

On 6/23/2021 at 3:28 PM, Boeroer said:

The unique Rapier Squid's Grasp has a nice enchantment that prevents getting flanked. Combined with Vigorous Defense and Wizard's buffs you can become very tanky. Becoming very tanky allows you to get threatened by multiple enemies without folding over which makes the other enchantment of Squid's Grasp accessible a lot more often: the 20% speed bonus (which stacks with stuff like Deleterious Alacrity etc.). Combined with Armored Grace and a pet like Abraham you can achieve good Rapier dps while being very sturdy. But you'll need some alternative weapon (or use spells) against pierce resistant/immune foes. 

So Battlemage would be my way to go - with Squid's Grasp at least.

If you are aiming for Rännig's Wrath it depends on the enchantments. For a Spellblade I would prefer the flanking DMG bonus + the PEN bonus on crit while for a Battlemage I would pick the 10% chance to skip recovery after getting missed (which works well with the small shield modal by the way).

For late(ish) game the Battlemage has better synergy since stuff like Vigorous Defense and Unbending can be prologed with Wall of Draining which will make you unkillable for a long time. 

 

With the help of the console I've tried to create a build for Battlemage Aloth, here's how it looks like after your suggestions:

Aloth will use a rapier and a mace as a secondary weapon and stacking crit passives (hence the One-Handed Style).

I. WIZARD

ACTIVES

1. Minoletta's Minor Missles

2. Fleet Feet

3. Spirit Shield

4. Arcane Veil

5. Infuse with Vital Essence

6. Llengrath's Displaced Image

7. Flame Shield

8. Ironskin

9. Ryngrim's Enervating Terror

10. Blast of Frost

11. Llengrath's Safeguard

12. Minoletta's Precisely Piercing Burst

13. Chain Lightning

14. Citizal's Martial Power

15. Wall of Draining

PASSIVES

None

II. FIGHTER

ACTIVES

1. Disciplined Barrage (Tactical Barrage)

2. Penetrating Strike

3. Vigorous Defense (Refreshing Defense)

PASSIVES

1. One-Handed Style

2. Weapon Specialization

3. Uncanny Luck

4. Improved Critical

 

How does that look? My worry is that I neglected offensive spells here...

[thelee]

No deleterious alacrity?

 

i personally think some mobility will help, dependin gyour difficulty (enemies may make it hard to get into position for some of your offensive spells). bounding boots, the 4th tier teleportation spell [can't remember name], or charge for fighter would help.

there's also a unique spell in zandethus's spellbook (spindle man in delver's row has it) that's worth keeping an eye on for a melee build, because it provides two different 15% lashes and terrifies enemies that hit you.

[Boeroer]

Since you wanted to build a good Rapier user in the first place I wouldn't spend many points on spells. Instead I would make a collection of useful grimoires so that I can cast most spells I want from those books and only pick a few spells that aren't covered by the grimoires - or which I want to always have access to. Then I'd put most points into passives and some fighter actives. 

If you wanted to stack crit chances you missed Disciplined Strikes' 25% hit to crit conversion (you took Tactical Barrage). DS would stack with Merciless Gaze and One-Handed Style (not additively but still very nice) and you can get Smart by using Infuse with Vital Essence instead (no +1 PL from Acute though). 

I personally would def. go with a small shield and pick weapon & shield style. The good thing about Battlemage is the ability to stack very high deflection numbers and since deflection has increasing returns you should substitute that with a shield. Also kind of stacks with the "no flanking malus" from Squid's Grasp.

The +12 ACC from one handed usage and -style are nice - but later in the game not as impactful as the added deflection. And you'll have plenty of conversion from Disciplined Strikes and Merciless Gaze anyway. 

Good fighter abilites that I would never skip as a Battlemage are Armored Grace (with Devil of Caroc Breastplate and a pet like Abraham you'll kind of have no recovery penalty but good AR and also +2 Discipline. Also looks rad on a fencer imo), Unbending, Refreshing Defense (it stacks with most of the Wizard's deflection buffs except Llengrath's Safeguard), Superior Deflection (if going for high deflection to start with) and such. 

Especially with Wall of Draining having Refreshing Defense and Unbending makes you almost unkillable (except one-shots) which is very powerful.

 

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Boeroer

[Caran of Varn]

56 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Since you wanted to build a good Rapier user in the first place I wouldn't spend many points on spells. Instead I would make a collection of useful grimoires so that I can cast most spells I want from those books and only pick a few spells that aren't covered by the grimoires - or which I want to always have access to. Then I'd put most points into passives and some fighter actives. 

If you wanted to stack crit chances you missed Disciplined Strikes' 25% hit to crit conversion (you took Tactical Barrage). DS would stack with Merciless Gaze and One-Handed Style (not additively but still very nice) and you can get Smart by using Infuse with Vital Essence instead (no +1 PL from Acute though). 

I personally would def. go with a small shield and pick weapon & shield style. The good thing about Battlemage is the ability to stack very high deflection numbers and since deflection has increasing returns you should substitute that with a shield. Also kind of stacks with the "no flanking malus" from Squid's Grasp.

The +12 ACC from one handed usage and -style are nice - but later in the game not as impactful as the added deflection. And you'll have plenty of conversion from Disciplined Strikes and Merciless Gaze anyway. 

Good fighter abilites that I would never skip as a Battlemage are Armored Grace (with Devil of Caroc Breastplate and a pet like Abraham you'll kind of have no recovery penalty but good AR and also +2 Discipline. Also looks rad on a fencer imo), Unbending, Refreshing Defense (it stacks with most of the Wizard's deflection buffs except Llengrath's Safeguard), Superior Deflection (if going for high deflection to start with) and such. 

Especially with Wall of Draining having Refreshing Defense and Unbending makes you almost unkillable (except one-shots) which is very powerful.

 

 

Thank you! I've made the following changes:

I. WIZARD

ACTIVES

1. Minoletta's Minor Missles

2. Wizard's Double

3. Spirit Shield

4. Arcane Veil

5. Merciless Gaze

6. Llengrath's Displaced Image

7. Deletrious Alacrity of Motion

8. Ironskin

9. Ryngrim's Enervating Terror

10. Wall of Draining

PASSIVES

None

II. FIGHTER

ACTIVES

1. Disciplined Barrage (Disciplined Strikes)

2. Penetrating Strike

3. Charge

4. Vigorous Defense (Refreshing Defense)

5. Unbending

6. Clear Out

7. Power Strike

PASSIVES

1. Weapon and Shield Style

2. Confident Aim

3. Superior Deflection

4. Uncanny Luck

5. Armored Grace

6. Improved Critical

7. Weapon Specialization (Weapon Mastery)

Does that look better?

1 hour ago, thelee said:

No deleterious alacrity?

 

i personally think some mobility will help, dependin gyour difficulty (enemies may make it hard to get into position for some of your offensive spells). bounding boots, the 4th tier teleportation spell [can't remember name], or charge for fighter would help.

there's also a unique spell in zandethus's spellbook (spindle man in delver's row has it) that's worth keeping an eye on for a melee build, because it provides two different 15% lashes and terrifies enemies that hit you.

Added in mobility - charge and Deletrious Alacrity, thanks I'll keep an eye out for that Grimoire for sure!

[Boeroer]

2 hours ago, Caran of Varn said:

Does that look better?

To me: yes.   

[thelee]

4 hours ago, Caran of Varn said:

Added in mobility - charge and Deletrious Alacrity, thanks I'll keep an eye out for that Grimoire for sure!

just in case it wasn't on top of mind (didn't see it mentioned here) - deleterious alacrity is an insane survival spell for wizards if you can micromanage. sure it gives you action speed which is nice, but swift = doubled movement and can't be engaged (even if the game erroneously shows a red line indicating you are engaged, there's no consequence ot you moving out of melee range).

if you manage to step away from a melee enemy just as they are winding up an attack (e.g. their action circle is filling up, they're not in recovery), you can make their attack miss (in combat log it is "(out of range)"), and then you can just step back in for your own attack. because you can't be engaged there's no way for enemies to punish you for doing this. if you have gear/abilities with riposte functionality, this is also a easy way to proc riposte a lot. (rannig's wrath doesn't have a riposte, but has a very similar effect that you could trigger like this). edit - forcing a melee enemy to miss like this may even trigger the small shield's binding block modal!

Edited June 25, 2021 by thelee

[Caran of Varn]

Thank you both! I think I'll try making a Pallegina healer build next

[Boeroer]

Go with Herald, Lay on Hands, Ancient Memory, Mercy and Kindness and Exalteded Endurance, Lethandria's Devotion, Sasha's Singing Scimitar, Physiker's Belt, Practiced Healer.

[Caran of Varn]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

Go with Herald, Lay on Hands, Ancient Memory, Mercy and Kindness and Exalteded Endurance, Lethandria's Devotion, Sasha's Singing Scimitar, Physiker's Belt, Practiced Healer.

I'll try to work something out, I did plan to use an Estoc though, just for style points Maybe a bit of a hybrid striker/healer And afflictions, as she'll go with my Nalpazca/Steel Garrote - but I'll make a separate thread for that one!

Edited June 26, 2021 by Caran of Varn