Party composition and build feedback.

[DecayWolf]

Planning a Melee Cipher for PotD.  Still new to the game, haven't finished a single playthrough yet, hence a few doubts.

Stats: 

MIG 18, CON 8, DEX 16, PER 10, INT 16, RES 10.

ACC debuffs, with psychovampiric Shield at early game, this character is surprisingly very tanky, better than Edér even.  

Also worth to mention, that I have a neck with +15 max endurance, fulvanus +1 CON boots, and there's food that gives +10 Endurance and +2 CON at Gilden Vale inn. So this Cipher is actually the second highest Endurance in the party, at low levels.

 

This character can reach 0 Recovery with Time Parasite or Potion of Deleterious Alacrity of Motion + Gauntlet's of Swift Action + Durganized Weapon/Armor + Weapon Speed Mod. 

At that point, I'd respec dumping DEX (-4) in favor of MIG(+2) and INT(+2), because at that point I'd be hitting once every 1,01s. 

Also, I was thinking about giving him the +4 DEX boots. 

 

I am still unsure how my final stats will look like, I mean, I am trying to figure out what I can dump and what could give a better return. I believe my weapon ACC would allow me to dump PER, but then my spell may not have enough ACC, by dumping PER I could raise either CON or DEX... Or I could dump even more CON or DEX.

I suppose at lv 16, those raw stats would be true.

Weapon ACC: 95 (Legendary/unbuffed) to 115 - 126 buffed. (Priest 5, Paladin 6, Borrowed Instinct 20)

Spell ACC: 80 unbuffed to 111 buffed vs Will. 

Following this table, I'd end with maxed MIG and INT. The remaining is free to relocate for optimization. Generally speaking I don't think I am too far off, of my target goal. 

(More or less MIG 20, CON 8, DEX 16, PER 10, INT 18, RES 10. Before Gear and permanent stat boost.)

 

Gear: 

Since I don't have my party planned, I also don't have things set in stone, except from a few key items.

 

Armor: He Carries Many Scars (maybe?)

Hands: Gauntlets of Swift Action

Boots: Viettro's Formal Footwear

Weapon: Blade of the Endless Paths (Can it become legendary and receive a lash?)

 

So I've been thinking about possible party combinations. 

1. Cipher

2. Pallegina

3. Durance

4. Kana

5. Grieving Mother

6. Devil of Caroc.

 

The reasoning behind this is.

Pally will be my frontline tanker, she has 2 speed modifiers to help build focus to cast Time Parasite, also ACC aura.

Priest gives cool buffs and healing.

I think those 2 are the most important from the build composition, others aren't as essential I think.

 

Kana for more buffs, healing, cc and summons. Also will be essential to help GM build more focus from afar.

Grieving Mother (Whisper of Treason/Ring Leader, Going Between and Phantom Foes)

Going between will make my Cipher immortal against most non boss encounters, Phantom will trigger more damage from survival which means focus, also has synergy with sneak attack ruleset.

Devil of Caroc for Reaping Knives from GM, so she can build focus better.

 

The last 3 could be completely replaced by a different combination the way I see it.

[Desmodeus]

2 hours ago, DecayWolf said:

Priest 5, Paladin 6, Borrowed Instinct 20

You underestimating palladin bonus. Pellagina can also have coordinated attack for additional +10 ACC, then you can give her marking weapon and boost her overall +ACC bonus to +25(+35 if she will dual-wield marking weapons)

Durance can also get inspiring radiance for +10 ACC bonus

2 hours ago, DecayWolf said:

Devil of Caroc for Reaping Knives from GM, so she can build focus better.

I am not big fun of dual-wielding DoC(I prefer her with shield and reposites focus). I think Sagani/Maneha/Zahua/Eder can pull dualwielding mucvh better, especially since they are not stuck in cursed armor of slow. Sagani with +speed rapier and +speed dagger can reach zero recovery with just swift aim modal

2 hours ago, DecayWolf said:

Weapon: Blade of the Endless Paths (Can it become legendary and receive a lash?)

Yes it can. However consider that it has just 1 type of damage so you can meet with annoying cases of immunity. With such high int and might think about getting forgemaster gloves from knights and buying belt of Royal Deadfire Cannonner from Arlong compass. Summoned firebrand will last very long in you hands, it will use any weaspon focus you have and it do pure burn damage. Also it is avaliable much earlier then BoEP

2 hours ago, DecayWolf said:

Kana for more buffs, healing, cc and summons. Also will be essential to help GM build more focus from afar.

Kana can also dfo a ton of damage with Dragon Thrashed xD

[Boeroer]

Active accuracy bonuses won't stack. So Zealous Focus (+6) + Blessing (+5) = still 6. 

Devotions is an exception because it doesn't raise universal ACC but "only" ranged and melee ACC which makes it stack (weird but it's like that).

Coordinated Attacks, Marking, Inspiring Radiance are all considered passive effects and stack. Marking from two chars won't stack on the ally that profits from marking. But dual wielding two marking weapons (Cladhaliath + Shame or Glory) will stack their markings.

Inspiring Liberation (Darcozzi) will also stack with everything.

E.g. a Darcozzi Paladin with Zealous Focus with Cl.+SoG and Coordinated Attacks will provide +46 ACC for the ally who's nearest him and attacks the same target. 40 of those are completely stackable. 

Add Inspiring Radiance and Devotions and you are at +76 ACC. If the nearest ally is a Cipher he can cast Tactical Meld on the Paladin (stacks), get a Coordinating weapon (+5 ACC) and cast Borrowed Instinct (don't recall if that stacks with Devotions, maybe not - it's been some time). You can reach nearly 100 bonus ACC that way (ignoring debuffs like Flanking for now) which makes fights against dragons and other stuff extremely easy, especially if the Cipher uses a weapon with prone on crit (there is no immunity) and/or uses Mind Control and then Disintegration. 

By the way: for Marking/Coordinated Attacks/Tactical Meld/Coordinated on weapon to work you only need to initiate an attack, you don't have to actually run there and hit. You will eventually, but the click on the enemy alone (the command to attack) immediately unlocks those effects for the nearest ally who's also attacking the same target. It works for all sorts of attack the ally will use (spells, weapon attacks etc.).

Edit: Inspiring Radiance even stacks with itself. So basically a party of 6 Priests could all use Inspiring Radiance at the start of battle and would all get +60 ACC. Or for better usage of the ACC use 5 Priests and a Wizard or so. Which is insane given how early you can get that talent.

I never checked if the same works with Inspiring Liberation (like when you cast it on one ally with multiple paladins) but I guess so. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Boeroer

[DecayWolf]

Hmmm, that's very interesting, by the looks of it, I'll be able to dump PER in favor of other stats, when the time comes.

8 hours ago, Desmodeus said:

I am not big fun of dual-wielding DoC(I prefer her with shield and reposites focus). I think Sagani/Maneha/Zahua/Eder can pull dualwielding mucvh better, especially since they are not stuck in cursed armor of slow. Sagani with +speed rapier and +speed dagger can reach zero recovery with just swift aim modal

Do you know if the ripose counter attack will always land a hit or does it rolls a dice of accuracy, of which can miss,graze,hit.crit? That's a really interesting idea, I can even think about gearing her with reflection items, with a maxed deflection build. 

Also, would reflection trigger, if the enemy miss the hit? Or only counts if grazes/hit/crit? 

 

Well, IDK about monk, don't like em astatically.  Swift aim increases melee action speed? Hmmm... 

Yes her armor adds a lot of encumbrance, I've run a speed test. With Two Weapon + durganized weapon/armor + random speed buff talent/party, she can almost reach zero recovery.

With speed mods, she definitely will be able to. 

However, since she'll lose the durganized + speed mods from weapons as soon she gets reaping knives... Well... Yeah... Not ideal.

One thing for sure, if I'd pick a rogue, it has to be a custom adventurer. Generally speaking, I like the full attack, I like the huge damage boost, and I like the over killing damage from finish blow to build focus. So it ain't wasted.

 

Question, does auto-attack AoE damage generate focus, if using reaping knives? Thinking about how good a barb would be. 

 

9 hours ago, Desmodeus said:

Yes it can. However consider that it has just 1 type of damage so you can meet with annoying cases of immunity. With such high int and might think about getting forgemaster gloves from knights and buying belt of Royal Deadfire Cannonner from Arlong compass. Summoned firebrand will last very long in you hands, it will use any weaspon focus you have and it do pure burn damage. Also it is avaliable much earlier then BoEP

Kana can also dfo a ton of damage with Dragon Thrashed xD

 

Good point, I recently did a restart, but I was using this very gloves, and man.. My Cipher was doing tons of damage with a Firebrand! 

At early game for sure, I'd use these gloves, however late game... Here is my argument for not using it. With Gauntlet's of Swiftness I get 0,33s reduction without speed buffs, and 0,13s buffed with time parasite or similar. So it's a quite substantial difference. I do agree completely about pierce immunity however, that's why I am also thinking about my secondary weapon.

Was flirting with Tidefall... I mean, Life drain... Nice! But then, if I do add an barb on the team, (because you have made a very compelling argument) they're probably the best user of Tidefall.

So maybe I could go with 2W Sabers or maybe another 2H or maybe a ranged weapon... I honestly have absolutely no idea of which ranged weapon to choose.

Well, in any case, if I run against immune to pierce, I can rely on magic and the secondary weapon.

 

I torn with this very doubt about giving Deadfire Cannonner to my cipher or not. The reason to not give to him, is that I can achieve the same stat bonuses, while other team members would be lacking in stats. 

For example Maegfolc Skull + Girdle of Eoten Constitution + Talisman of the Unconquerable. To further add into my argument, I am also giving about giving Pallegina Scion of Flames... So...

Bottom line, I know it's very useful to my cipher, but I also can see how useful it would be to other party members. I am torn here.

[DecayWolf]

7 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Active accuracy bonuses won't stack. So Zealous Focus (+6) + Blessing (+5) = still 6. 

Devotions is an exception because it doesn't raise universal ACC but "only" ranged and melee ACC which makes it stack (weird but it's like that).

Coordinated Attacks, Marking, Inspiring Radiance are all considered passive effects and stack. Marking from two chars won't stack on the ally that profits from marking. But dual wielding two marking weapons (Cladhaliath + Shame or Glory) will stack their markings.

Inspiring Liberation (Darcozzi) will also stack with everything.

E.g. a Darcozzi Paladin with Zealous Focus with Cl.+SoG and Coordinated Attacks will provide +46 ACC for the ally who's nearest him and attacks the same target. 40 of those are completely stackable. 

Add Inspiring Radiance and Devotions and you are at +76 ACC. If the nearest ally is a Cipher he can cast Tactical Meld on the Paladin (stacks), get a Coordinating weapon (+5 ACC) and cast Borrowed Instinct (don't recall if that stacks with Devotions, maybe not - it's been some time). You can reach nearly 100 bonus ACC that way (ignoring debuffs like Flanking for now) which makes fights against dragons and other stuff extremely easy, especially if the Cipher uses a weapon with prone on crit (there is no immunity) and/or uses Mind Control and then Disintegration. 

By the way: for Marking/Coordinated Attacks/Tactical Meld/Coordinated on weapon to work you only need to initiate an attack, you don't have to actually run there and hit. You will eventually, but the click on the enemy alone (the command to attack) immediately unlocks those effects for the nearest ally who's also attacking the same target. It works for all sorts of attack the ally will use (spells, weapon attacks etc.).

Edit: Inspiring Radiance even stacks with itself. So basically a party of 6 Priests could all use Inspiring Radiance at the start of battle and would all get +60 ACC. Or for better usage of the ACC use 5 Priests and a Wizard or so. Which is insane given how early you can get that talent.

I never checked if the same works with Inspiring Liberation (like when you cast it on one ally with multiple paladins) but I guess so. 

 

Really interesting stuff. Certainly something to look for.

Well, the main and only problem about  Inspiring Radiance is 1 per encounter + short duration, so in order to get most of it, I think a extremely damage oriented party would be in order.

That's why I didn't even added it to my ACC. 

 

I may be wrong, but my reasoning when it comes to cipher is. Since it gets focus from dealing damage, consequently it grows stronger the longer the battle lasts. 

A paladin, priest and Chanter, while all of those provide amazing support buffs to enhance my cipher thus focus generation, they're all not big hitters. Meaning, the battles will tend to last a bit longer, thus Inspiring Radiance won't that impactful, the way I see it.

 

 

____

 

So guys, before I get into the gear, I need to finish up my party composition. 

1. Cipher.

2. Pallegina

3. Durance.

 

I believe Pallegina and Durance are the most important key choices than the rest, due buffs to damage, acc and action speed, healing and immunities. 

 

Now comes the second half, I may be wrong, but I believe the longer the battle last, the stronger the cipher gets. Likewise that's how the Chanter works in my mind, if the battle ends too quickly they're less useful than in longer battles. Also due buffs, he's a cipher/party enhancer. 

For that reason kana would be a solid addition.

4. Kana

There's just something appealing with 2 cipher party that I want to try on. 

5. Grieving Mother

 

Last member has to have synergy with the rest of the team. The way I see it, Ranged cipher kinda sucks building focus. Reapning Knives would be a solution to that problem.

I am torn between Barb (if his AoE generate focus) or Rogue (adventurer)

 

Also, while on GM, I was thinking about giving her 2 ranged weapon.

1. A Bluderbuss with DR bypass. 

2. A Warbow with speed mod. 

Quick switch talent. 

 

So she can immediately build some focus from the get go, and then keep steady with the bow + Kana's chant and Pallegina's action speed buffs/acc.

 

Once I have this cleared out, I'll start thinking about gear distribution.

[Desmodeus]

As for stats I think they are fine though I do not understand where you got this bonus stats "before gear and permanent stat boosts" You do not get stat points on level after all so you cant go from MIG 18, CON 8, DEX 16, PER 10, INT 16, RES 10 to MIG 20, CON 8, DEX 16, PER 10, INT 18, RES 10 without help of this permanent stat boosts and gear

I'd actually think about boosting Per a bit. With such big int crits on CC will be sweet

[Desmodeus]

1 hour ago, DecayWolf said:

Was flirting with Tidefall... I mean, Life drain... Nice! But then, if I do add an barb on the team, (because you have made a very compelling argument) they're probably the best user of Tidefall.

One problem - Tidefall and BotEP are in different weapon classes. Firebrand is universal so it get ACC bonus from Weapon Focus: Adventurer while Tidefall need Weapon Focus: Soldier. You either want Poleaxe, Firebrand of soulbound twohander as secondary weapon to get max out of your weapon focus

1 hour ago, DecayWolf said:

Do you know if the ripose counter attack will always land a hit or does it rolls a dice of accuracy, of which can miss,graze,hit.crit? That's a really interesting idea, I can even think about gearing her with reflection items, with a maxed deflection build. 

Also, would reflection trigger, if the enemy miss the hit? Or only counts if grazes/hit/crit? 

Reposite is full attack IIRC. Reflection trigger only on graze, hit or crit. Also don't forget about main problematic part of  DoC - she can't eat and drink. Very problematic for serious dragon fights

For range weapon I LOVE blunderbuss from WM2(Silver Flash). I mean, divine mark on hit on crit + cone of blind...

[DecayWolf]

37 minutes ago, Desmodeus said:

As for stats I think they are fine though I do not understand where you got this bonus stats "before gear and permanent stat boosts" You do not get stat points on level after all so you cant go from MIG 18, CON 8, DEX 16, PER 10, INT 16, RES 10 to MIG 20, CON 8, DEX 16, PER 10, INT 18, RES 10 without help of this permanent stat boosts and gear

I'd actually think about boosting Per a bit. With such big int crits on CC will be sweet

Was a typo. I meant MIG 20, CON 8, DEX 12, PER 10, INT 18, RES 10, then I kinda added the +4 from the boots.

Hmmm, critical with spells sounds delicious.  Well I'll more or less each attribute point value, assuming it's a lv 16 character.

1 CON worth about 10.5 endurance. (rounded down)

1 DEX worth about 0,023s at 16 DEX to 0,036s at DEX 7, faster action speed. (the law of diminishing return, also means the lower it gets I get the opposite effect, of higher penalty.)

Generally speaking, the first 4 DEX dump worth about 0,096s. (Time Parasite or Potion, would worth more otherwise)

1 PER worth 1 ACC.

1 RES worth 1 Deflection + 3 Concentration. (I don't want to dump concentration) 

 

I'll try first Boeroer's ideas, then I'll take a look about what I'll do with PER.

 

Quote

One problem - Tidefall and BotEP are in different weapon classes. Firebrand is universal so it get ACC bonus from Weapon Focus: Adventurer while Tidefall need Weapon Focus: Soldier. You either want Poleaxe, Firebrand of soulbound twohander as secondary weapon to get max out of your weapon focus

 

Does the +6 ACC makes such a big difference by late game? Sure early game +6 ACC is amazing, but when you're lv 16... Also my goal would be to abuse the team ACC support bonuses. Besides, it's only weapon ACC, not spell ACC.

Was thinking. 

2. Greater Focus

4. Biting Whip

6. Draining Whip

8. Outlander's Frenzy (Can respec later, but early game +3 MIG, 2 CON and 25% action speed before time parasite, that's cool)

10. Two-Handed Style

12. Savage Attack

14. Apprentice's Sneak Attack

16. Psychic Backlash (maybe?) or Scion of Flames instead.

 

I think you get the idea where I am going with this build.

Quote

Reposite is full attack IIRC. Reflection trigger only on graze, hit or crit. Also don't forget about main problematic part of  DoC - she can't eat and drink. Very problematic for serious dragon fights

Oh yeah, I'll not be taking her at all, if I chose a rogue as the last party member. Not worthy it. 

Quote

For range weapon I LOVE blunderbuss from WM2(Silver Flash). I mean, divine mark on hit on crit + cone of blind...

Ain't that a nasty little thing? Loved it as well. Does the cone damage build focus per hit?

Edited February 18, 2021 by DecayWolf
New feedback to quote.

[DecayWolf]

I've edited my post to cover your last post. 

But just out of curiosity, say I give the Royal Dead Fire Cannonner to my Cipher which WILL be great, then for one I'd need to give him Scion of Flames, no problem.

But then, what about the unused stats? Maegfolc Skull sounds really, really strong. And I was thinking about Ring of Thorns or the boots. 

So I'd be kinda wasting 3 MIG and 3 DEX... Still Firebrand is awesome. Unless I gave the namely items to other party members, then the question is, is this belt > than Ring of Thorns + Maegfolc Skull?

[Boeroer]

Tidefall's wounding scales with MIG. It's the weapon with the highest potential dps in the game.

Inspiring Radiance should be used at the start of the encounter in order to more reliably land an impactful CC/debuffing spell. Afflictions in PoE are very potent - and often making sure to land those right at the start of battle can already decide it. 

[DecayWolf]

5 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Tidefall's wounding scales with MIG. It's the weapon with the highest potential dps in the game.

Inspiring Radiance should be used at the start of the encounter in order to more reliably land an impactful CC/debuffing spell. Afflictions in PoE are very potent - and often making sure to land those right at the start of battle can already decide it. 

Very good point.

As for Tidefall, can it become legendary and receive a lash? It doesn't have speed mod (no 0 recovery). It certainly can be the best DPS melee weapon, especially for barb the way I see it. But it's not the best for generating focus. Tidefall was my first choice of weapon, but then I decided to go for Blade of the Endless Paths for these reasons.

[Desmodeus]

It can however IIRC you get just barely enough resources to boost 1 weapon to legendary. So Either BotEP or Tidefall as legendary. I would probably stick with Tidefall. Dual weapon damage is great thing

[Boeroer]

That's why I said potential.

You can reach 0 recovery with Tidefall if you have >= 13 DEX, Durgan Steel and use a potion of Deleterious Alacrity of Motion (or are a Wizard) and Gauntlets of Swift Action. This leaves a recovery of 0.7 frames which will get skipped (iirc everything below 0.8 gets skipped). 

Reaching 0 recovery is nice and all - but usually you only achieve it late in the game (if not dual wielding + speed weapons). It's more important what happens before. And over the course of a whole playthrough Tidefall is one of the best weapons imo (Full Attacks aside). Early to get, comes with high quality and very good enchantments. 

BotEP is also very nice but the pierce-only dmg sometimes stinks. Also comes rather late(ish). I like it on a marking Paladin. It can be substituted with the Half-Mast pollaxe until you get it. The pollaxe is also a backup against pierce immune enemies. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Boeroer

[Desmodeus]

Also make sure to get two handed hammer from White March 2.  That thing is ridiculously good stat stick

[DecayWolf]

34 minutes ago, Desmodeus said:

It can however IIRC you get just barely enough resources to boost 1 weapon to legendary. So Either BotEP or Tidefall as legendary. I would probably stick with Tidefall. Dual weapon damage is great thing

With lash?

 

29 minutes ago, Desmodeus said:

Also make sure to get two handed hammer from White March 2.  That thing is ridiculously good stat stick

You mean the warhammer? Does it works even if on my secondary weapon slot, without using it?

 

33 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

You can reach 0 recovery with Tidefall if you have >= 13 DEX, Durgan Steel and use a potion of Deleterious Alacrity of Motion (or are a Wizard) and Gauntlets of Swift Action. This leaves a recovery of 0.7 frames which will get skipped (iirc everything below 0.8 gets skipped). 

Really? Nice!

 

14 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Reaching 0 recovery is nice and all - but usually you only achieve it late in the game (if not dual wielding + speed weapons). It's more important what happens before. And over the course of a whole playthrough Tidefall is one of the best weapons imo (Full Attacks aside). Early to get, comes with high quality and very good enchantments. 

BotEP is also very nice but the pierce-only dmg sometimes stinks. Also comes rather late(ish). I like it on a marking Paladin. It can be substituted with the Half-Mast pollaxe until you get it. The pollaxe is also a backup against pierce immune enemies. 

I'd be 100% using Tidefall until I put my hands on BotEP. I was just planning this sword as my end game.

 

Here is what I've been thinking. 

Focus generation. 1 + (0.25+0.25+0.2+0.33) Base, Talisman of the Unconquerable, Garow Galon, Draining Whip. = 2.03

Action speed. 0,97 - 1,08ish 

Damage 1 + (0.55+0.2+0.2+0.15+0.15+0.85) Legendary, Biting Whip, Savage Attack, Two-Handed Style, Apprentice's Sneak Attack, MIG (can actually be more with buffs) = 3.10

I don't know how Lash and Elemental talent works yet, oh also Aefyllath Ues Mith Fyr. Then + Crit (The Merciless Hand and such.)

 

The idea is to build focus  quickly. 

Generally speaking I think Tidefall is a better weapon and I'd be using it, but just curious to see a focus oriented build in action. 

[Desmodeus]

9 minutes ago, DecayWolf said:

With lash?

Greatsword do best out of Slash or Pierce  base damage. That means it isn't useless when you meet pierce or slash immune enemies

10 minutes ago, DecayWolf said:

You mean the warhammer? Does it works even if on my secondary weapon slot, without using it?

No, no you have to have it equiped. However you can switch to it before casting soul shock or something. Just sayin'

[Boeroer]

By the way: the wounding DoT-lash of Tidefall doesn't generate focus like other lashes do.

[DecayWolf]

18 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

By the way: the wounding DoT-lash of Tidefall doesn't generate focus like other lashes do.

Right, so the wounding is a lash. Does that means I can replace it?

[Boeroer]

No. It's a unique enchantment that works like a lash (in this case meaning it's a multiplicative dmg bonus). But you can add an elemental lash to the sword like to every other weapon. Those elemental lashes do generate focus. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Boeroer

[Sterces48]

I feel like high PER is important for a Cipher. Missing attacks don’t generate focus and missing spells wastes focus. I think you feel the sting more than most classes.

[DecayWolf]

Also have been looking, BotEP cannot become legendary and receive a lash, but Tidefall can... Since speed mod ain't necessary that changes everything. I mean focus building wise Tidefall > BotEP.

Btw, how can I know if a weapon can receive a secondary lash? For instance, Justice already has a crush lash, if I could add a second lash there, it would be one of the best focus generating weapons for a cipher ever.

 

I've selected a few weapons, that can become legendary and receive a lash. Here is the list.

The Hours of St. Rumbalt.

Tidefall. 

Tall Grass.

Jêna's Lance.

 

There others too, but they don't add anything to dps directly, only indirectly due utility/prone.

Half-Mast. Of which can actually be better than the spears, due dual damage.

 

There's also The Rose of Salthollow, which is pretty much like Tidefall . The only downside is that I believe I won't be able to put a burn lash... Beyond that, golden.

 

Anyways, I'll make some builds later and post here.

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by DecayWolf

[Boeroer]

Actually Justice has two lashes: one "mini" lash that is listed right beside its physical dmg (10% I believe) and the 25% crushing lash. That one is like an elemental lash and you can't add another one. 

Still it's a good weapon for focus generation because two lashes. Just know that every lash is applied separately (they don't get added to a bigger single one internally) and every lash (except raw ones) have to overcome 1/4th of enemies DR. No matter how low the lash is: it's always 1/4 DR. Lashes don't profit from DR bypass (like Vulnerable Attack) and that means that a 10% lash will often not be able to penetrate and thus won't do any damage. It's very beneficial to lower enemies' DR in those cases and ramp up your dmg per hit. 

Same is true for two unique flails. i think it's Starcaller and Unforgiven iirc. Both have a mini-lash + normal lash. But since their dmg per hit is lower than that of a two hander the mini-lash struggles even more to overcome DR. In that regard Justice has an advantage. 

Hours of St. Rumbalt will give you more focus than Tidefall on average (if fully enchanted) because the Annihilation (double crit dmg) will generate more focus while wouning (while being the better dps enchantment) will not. 

Firebrand is an awesome tool to get focus - especially with a lot of dmg bonuses (Two Handed Style, Soul Whip, Might etc) and Time Parasite. Its base damage is way higher than that of a normal great sword. Higher base dmg is also multiplicative but even better than a lash because it doesn't have to overcome DR separately. It can't be enchanted with Durgan Steel etc. but on the other hand it spares you all the enchantment resources since it scales automatically. Leaving you more stuff for your other party members. 

[DecayWolf]

Still working on the party build, still something that I think I have missed. 

I cannot reach 0,7f with plate, only with robe... I am missing something?

 

Anyways, I am doing some math about a few things, just started on the swords. 

Here is BotEP vs Firebrand, no critical. (If critical Firebrand has a 0.2 advantage on the final damage)

 

BotEP (Superb + Burning Lash + Aefyllath Ues Mith Fyr, 27 MIG, 15 DEX, Time Parasite, Scion of Flame)

Focus per second 0 DR  / 15 DEX	67,2	96
Focus per second 10 DR / 15 DEX	51,2	80
Focus per second 20 DR / 15 DEX	35,2	64
Focus per second 30 DR / 15 DEX	19,2	48

Focus per second 0 DR  / 15 DEX	67,2	96,0
Focus per second 10 DR / 15 DEX	56,2	88,0
Focus per second 20 DR / 15 DEX	43,2	72,0
Focus per second 30 DR / 15 DEX	27,2	56,0

Corrected. 

 

Firebrand (With Aefyllath Ues Mith Fyr, 26 MIG, 15 DEX, Time Parasite, Scion of Flame)

Focus per second 0 DR  / 15 DEX 42,6 63,9 Focus per second 10 DR / 15 DEX 35,7 57,0 Focus per second 20 DR / 15 DEX 28,8 50,1 Focus per second 30 DR / 15 DEX 21,9 43,2

 

Firebrand hits harder, but it's almost 1s slower... That's why the lower focus per second. Also Lash adds up.

Oh, also both has the gloves, I mean they're as fast as possible. Also taking added all focus generation sources (base,neck,food,talent)

 

EDIT

HoSR (Superb + Burning Lash + Aefyllath Ues Mith Fyr, 27 MIG, 15 DEX, Time Parasite, Scion of Flame)

Focus per second 0 DR  / 15 DEX	44,4	63,4
Focus per second 10 DR / 15 DEX	33,8	52,8
Focus per second 20 DR / 15 DEX	23,2	42,3
Focus per second 30 DR / 15 DEX	12,7	31,7

 

Reason it's lower it's because I cannot reach 0 recovery without speed. Otherwise it supposed to be the same as BotEP, because I forgot to add the 5 armor penetration.

That is without critical.

 

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by DecayWolf

[Boeroer]

28 minutes ago, DecayWolf said:

Still working on the party build, still something that I think I have missed. 

I cannot reach 0,7f with plate, only with robe... I am missing something?

That's correct. Plate will slow you down. You can test attack speed with this tool: https://naijaro.github.io/poe-speed-calculator/

Fortunately the more you advance in the game the less impact thick armor has - so you might as well run around in cloth, one of the Deadfire Pack's uniforms or robes. 

 

37 minutes ago, DecayWolf said:

Anyways, I am doing some math about a few things, just started on the swords. 

What math?

 

[DecayWolf]

4 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

That's correct. Plate will slow you down. You can test attack speed with this tool: https://naijaro.github.io/poe-speed-calculator/

Fortunately the more you advance in the game the less impact thick armor has - so you might as well run around in cloth, one of the Deadfire Pack's uniforms or robes. 

 

What math?

 

 

Some silly stuff, to see which talent is better than what, and the optimal order to get. Also taking in consideration of other party members spells/skills and such. 

Between that I also started checking Focus per second.