Assassin/Skaen vs Assassin/Bleak Walker

[siema87]

I'm torn between those 2 builds. How are those builds through the game? Is the dmg from Bleak Walker subclass significantly better in end game? Also should mention I'm playing Turn Based so only usefull skill to get into stealth is Shadowing Beyond which with Skaen subclass can be used more per fight.

Edited March 10, 2020 by siema87

[Boeroer]

I would say hat while Bleak Walker can do more damage per strike and has better defenses the Priest of Skaen has way more to offer.

However, if you like the supersneaky way (sneak in, kill one opponent, go invisible, retreat - repeat) then Bleak Walker is better since the number of invisibility uses per encounter doesn't matter much (since you'll leave encounter after every kill). You will have Gouging Strike AND Brand Enemy (which last forever, killing one enemy reliably) which speeds up the killing of tough ones considerably and you'll have Bleak Walker's FoD which can one-shot weaker enemies. With a gun like Dragon's Dowry you can reliably do two shots (one FoD from stealth with its 80% recovery bonus and then the other as follow-up e.g. with Finishing Blow) and then immediately use Shadowing Beyond (or Assassin's Boots) in order to retreat.

Also Bleak Walker can use Ring of Focused Flames to boost his FoD Accuracy even higher (+10, +10) with can be combined with the arquebus modal (+20) and Assassinate (+25) for a lot of alpha-crits (without any casting time investment).

 

[siema87]

Thank you! That's the kind of information I was looking for. If I'd like to use 2h weapon though which one would you choose? 

[Boeroer]

Melee weapons have the great disadvantage of recovery time. So after your strike from stealth you can either follow up with a second one but then have to wait for recovery to end before going invisible (might kill you) - or use invisibility right after the stealth attack (but then maybe the enemy isn't dead yet). Arquebus (unfortunately) is the best Assassination weapon.

Supersneaky users with 2H weapons might want one of the two big Battle Axes (Bleeding Cuts DoT lasts a really long time and the two handed axes' base damage is good).

Max alpha strikers should use Chromoprismatic Staff I think. At least when I was testing Assassin/Bleak Walker that was the best two handed weapon for it (if skills were allocated properly). It also has the reach advantage which is kind of handy. You don't have to step on enemies' toes...

A great 1/encounter-assassination weapon is Whispers of the Endless Paths with its "Run Through" ability from enchantment. It has very high base damage and works very well from stealth/invisibility for an Assassin. Maybe the highest melee dmg per strike I know about. But only 1/encounter.  

Edited March 11, 2020 by Boeroer

[Kaylon]

The melee weapon with the highest damage potential is Voidwheel because it has two lashes (10% raw + 10% corrode) and has also 25% chance proc Necrotic Lance which gets all the weapon bonuses. And the class with the highest damage/hit is the assassin/soulblade - with full focus you can deal 600+dmg/hit without counting the dots.

[Boeroer]

5 hours ago, Kaylon said:

The melee weapon with the highest damage potential is Voidwheel because it has two lashes (10% raw + 10% corrode) [...]

Huh? I don't think so. Despite the higher lashes it shouldn't do more damage per hit because of its lower base damage (18) compared to that of a quarterstaff (21) and the dmg bonus of the Chromoprismatic Staff with Metaphysics (not that big but still). My quickly scrawled calculation: 

• Voidwheel with FoD:
  • base dmg of 18 * PL 7 scaling of 1.35 =  24.3 
  • legendary weapon: +60%
  • Might 20: +30%
  • Sneak Attack at PL7: 60%
  • Crit: 25%
  • Overpenetration: +30%
  • Assassinate (crit): +50%
  • Backstab: +100%
  • Deathblows: +50%
  • and 20% lash (disregarding PEN of lashes because of Assassinate- crit with overpenetration)
  • = 24.3 * (1+0.6+0.3+0.6+0.25+0.3+0.5+1+0.5) * 1.2 = 147.26
     
• Chromoprismatic Staff with FoD:
  • base dmg of 21 * PL 7 scaling of 1.35 =  28.35 
  • legendary weapon: +60%
  • Might 20: +30%
  • Soul Charge at Metaphysics 20: +15%
  • Sneak Attack: 60%
  • Crit: 25%
  • Overpenetration: +30%
  • Assassinate (crit): +50%
  • Backstab: +100%
  • Deathblows: +50%
  • and 12% lash
  • = 28.35 * (1+0.6+0.3+0.15+0.6+0.25+0.3+0.5+1+0.5) * 1.2 = 165.11
     

I didn't include PL scaling above PL7 from items or abilities such as Otto Starcat and so on.

Maybe I made a mistake but I can't see it right now. My tests with an Assassin/Bleak Walker some while ago also back these numbers to some extend ( I tried all sorts of weapons that looked promising and made countless attacks from stealth). Chromoprismatic Staff came out on top for dmg per hit (melee). And of course Dragon's Dowry (ranged).

 

[Waski]

2 hours ago, Boeroer said:

base dmg of 21 * PL 7 scaling of 1.35 =  28.35

I just checked and its 18-21 base, like voidwheel

[Kaylon]

2 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Huh? I don't think so. Despite the higher lashes it shouldn't do more damage per hit because of its lower base damage (18) compared to that of a quarterstaff (21) and the dmg bonus of the Chromoprismatic Staff with Metaphysics (not that big but still). 

 

The great sword, the pike and the quarterstaff have all the same base damage 18-24. (WotEP is an exception because of the AoE).

Voidwheel comes with 15%dmg from modal, 20% lash and a powerful proc with 25% chance to trigger.

The Chromoprismatic Quarterstaff has 15% dmg/spd fom enchantment (with 20 metaphysics) and a 12% lash. You could argue that Voidwheel has an accuracy penalty with the modal activated, but even without the modal the damage is superior and most of the time your accuracy is so high that it won't matter. But for normal use the staff is a better weapon because the speed and the damage reduction are both great.

Dragon's Dowry is a great weapon because it has high penetration, a big lash, it's very safe (you shoot from range and you have no recovery with it) and it's probably the best assassin weapon if you don't play a soul blade. The soul blade with Voidwheel backstabs for instant full focus and the next Soul Annihilation hits for 600dmg without counting dots or Necrotic Heart (which can add another 200 dmg when it procs and also instantly replenishes his focus).

[Boeroer]

6 hours ago, Waski said:

 

 

@Kaylon, @Waski: The stupid mistake I made was that I somehow took Voidwheel as an estoc and not a great sword (which it is). Somehow I mixed up Voidwheel and Engoliero in my mind. Sorry,  it was very late... It's always late...

Great Sword has the additional advantage of dual dmg (slash/pierce).

As I said the 25% proc I do not consider because it's not reliable enough for an Assassin. On the plus side (sort of): the self dmg doesn't matter much if you hit and vanish - not even with the +15% self dmg from Assassin passive. 

Soulblade is nice as Backstabber (no matter the weapon - I especially like high ACC weapons in the early game). I didn't mention anything besides Bleak Walker and Skaen though because the OP specifically asked for it. 

Dragon's Dowry for the win!