Chant & Linger mechanics

[idwk0]

I have been searching and reading posts/threads/videos and I feel that there is potentially quite significant misinformation on Chant and Linger mechanics as what I have understood seemingly doesn't occur in-game.

Some frustrating observations (if true/confirmed):

1) Many chants seem to have a fixed duration of 10 seconds (typically buffs like Ancient Memory, or +defence chants) which completely ignores the phrase and linger mechanics as well as intellect. Debuff chants seem to actually factor intellect in the duration of the effect but still ignore phrase and linger (e.g Long Night Drink and its weakness debuff). Other debuff or damage chants (e.g Come Come Winds of Death) seem to factor phrase duration and linger because unlike point 2) the chant effect applies periodically (every 3 seconds) during the phrase and linger durations. 

2) The vast majority of chants apply the actual chant buff/debuff only once at the start of the chant which causes phrase duration and linger to seemingly be completely useless. Select few chants like Come Come or Dragon Thrashed apply effects periodically and therefore make actual use of phrase and linger duration.

Conclusion (assuming the above is true/confirmed):

1) The value of INT is far more limited than some people seem to think as many chants ignore INT for the purposes of duration. Outside of the select few chants that can scale INT and/or make use of phrase and linger duration, INT only increases AoE size.

2) As many chants only apply the effect once at the start of a chant, moving other members or enemies into the AoE thereafter will not cause a buff/debuff as they missed the initial application. They must wait until the next phrase begins.

3) Reducing phrase duration (e.g Troubadour skill) is the only way to increase the duration of most buff chants to simultaneously maintain greater numbers of different chants. E.g with no phrase duration reduction Ancient Memory and Silver Knights Shield can't both be kept up at all times (both chants have a fixed and flat duration of 10 seconds but it takes 12 seconds to cast these two chants leaving a downtime of 2 seconds), however Troubadour could maintain more than three chants, Ancient Memory, Silver Knights Shield and  Her Courage Thick as Steel as casting all three only takes 9 seconds leaving no downtime.

 

I look forward to hearing what others have to say, but overall it is disappointing how inflexible chants seem to be and how effective/reliant on troubadour I am to reduce phrase duration (and how companions like Tekehu can't be Troubadour).  

Edited February 9, 2020 by idwk0

[omgFIREBALLS]

Only 2) sounds correct to me. What platform are you playing on?

[idwk0]

49 minutes ago, omgFIREBALLS said:

Only 2) sounds correct to me. What platform are you playing on?

I am playing on PC. AoE size is boosted by INT but Ancient Memory and other buff chants are always 10 seconds long regardless of INT or linger. No way to boost duration. Is that right?

Edited February 9, 2020 by idwk0

[omgFIREBALLS]

No, I think you are being misled by faulty tooltips. Chants last 6 sec + 3 sec linger, and that's pretty much universal. Linger can be increased by int and by being a troubadour. I checked just now and nothing seems wrong.

The part in Ancient Memory / Silver Knights tooltip saying they last 10 sec is a lie. You have in the same tooltip saying the duration is 6 sec and also specifying the linger duration. To make it extra clear:

Furthermore, turning on Brisk Recitation will not give you full uptime on three chants. It will just make you spam chants that give 3 second buffs (regardless of int) and take 3 seconds to sing. It's for getting phrases faster, and can only give you full uptime on a single chant.

7 hours ago, idwk0 said:

2) The vast majority of chants apply the actual chant buff/debuff only once at the start of the chant which causes phrase duration and linger to seemingly be completely useless. Select few chants like Come Come or Dragon Thrashed apply effects periodically and therefore make actual use of phrase and linger duration.

They're not useless. The phrase + linger duration is the amount of time they actually buff you (difference being that before the phrase duration has elapsed, your chanter won't move on to the next phrase in the rotation). I don't know that you are correct that the two chants you mentioned apply more often. I don't use offensive chants though, so all I can say is it doesn't sound correct, but it might be

Are you experiencing things contrary to what I'm saying here? Any weird durations? Noting that offensive chants are a bit less predictable since enemy resolve above 10 will lower their duration.

Edit: It actually feels clear now that this fake duration in the tooltip has made you paint an erroneous image of how chants work. As soon as a phrase begins, the chant's buff/debuff is applied to everyone in range, and will last for 6 seconds + linger. After 6 seconds, the next phrase begins, and acts the same way. If Brisk Recitation is on, a chant's effect will only last 3 seconds and have no linger at all, but you will also move on to the next phrase after those 3 seconds, effectively doubling your phrase accumulation rate.

I don't blame you for forming this hypothesis, but hopefully by looking at your buff durations you'll see it works like I described

Edited February 9, 2020 by omgFIREBALLS

[idwk0]

14 hours ago, omgFIREBALLS said:

 

Are you experiencing things contrary to what I'm saying here? Any weird durations? Noting that offensive chants are a bit less predictable since enemy resolve above 10 will lower their duration.

I was being conned by the fakery, it was my mistake. I didn't think I had the INT for the buffs to last 10 seconds yet so I thought the tooltip description was right. 

[thelee]

The subtle reality is that it's not truly a lie; the inner workings is that the chant has a 10 second duration, but is overridden by the chant/linger mechanics.

This matters for exactly one case that I can think of:  the "Many Lives Pass By, Each Leaving Footprints" chant. That chant summons a skeleton, but because it's a summon, can't be affected by the chant/linger override. There it actually does have a summon duration of 10s that is extended by intellect as one would expect. Even with Brisk Recitation on, it doesn't shorten the summon duration (which means troubadours can create a frankly stupid amount of trash summons).

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by thelee