Mira the Bounty Hunter

[Judge Hades]

But there aren't because Jedi are too powerful. They are for the munchkins of gamers and no one else and I for one am not a munchkin gamer.

[Shdy314]

But there aren't because Jedi are too powerful. They are for the munchkins of gamers and no one else and I for one am not a munchkin gamer.

jedi arent munchkin. they are meant to be super powerful. If they were just as powerful as a scroundrel the SW universe would make no sense. All that KOTOR2 needs is to present proper challenges for Jedi PCs. Hopefully they will.

 

Nothing worse than the self righteous RPers talking about how this or that is munchkin blah blah.

[Judge Hades]

Thing is I want to play a scoundrel in a jedi universe so that there just might be a challenge to the game.

[GhostofAnakin]

But there aren't because Jedi are too powerful. They are for the munchkins of gamers and no one else and I for one am not a munchkin gamer.

As opposed to being a "Bounty Hunter" class, with supposedly decked out armor and rocket launcher/blasters coming out your wazoo? It's pretty much the same thing. Regardless of what these "top level classes" are named, whether "Jedi", "Bounty Hunter", etc., eventually the character will max out and be pretty much unstoppable.

 

If you don't want it to be a cake walk, don't level up past a certain point. But to blame playing as a Jedi as why it's too easy is just plain misguided.

[Shdy314]

Thing is I want to play a scoundrel in a jedi universe so that there just might be a challenge to the game.

A scoundrel level 8 with 12 levels of Jedi in a level 20 Jedi universe SHOULD be a challenge. Its a game design flaw. Not a character flaw.

[Judge Hades]

I play the game as it is presented and if the developers cannot make the game right they need to find different work. Until I see it without a shadow of a doubt fact that it is a design flaw of the game and not the munchkin nature of the Jedi class I shall remain in having this opinion. Unfortuantely we can't test a 20th level scoundrel in a 20th level Jedi universe.

[GhostofAnakin]

I play the game as it is presented and if the developers cannot make the game right they need to find different work. Until I see it without a shadow of a doubt fact that it is a design flaw of the game and not the munchkin nature of the Jedi class I shall remain in having this opinion. Unfortuantely we can't test a 20th level scoundrel in a 20th level Jedi universe.

Isn't it rather arrogant of you to say the game isn't "right" just because YOU feel it isn't?

 

The problem with your arguement is that it would take a game that matches YOUR specifications 100%, otherwise the game will be "faulty". That will never be the case.

[Quiquag]

Dammit all to Slahether!  I want to play a non-jedi prestige class.  If they are going to give it to the PCs I want my character to be able to go for it. 

WHY OBSIDIAN WHY MUST I BE A STUPID FREAKING JEDI!!!!

Because the game is called KNIGHTS of the Old Republic perhaps? Being a Jedi is the entire reason for the game. Otherwise, there's a game out there called Bounty Hunter, if that's more your thing

Its kind of stupid how some people don't want to be Jedi. With out lightsabers, the force, and robes its not really Star Wars....Why would you want to play a Star Wars game called Knights of the Old Republic when your character is a bounty hunter? If you just want a bounty hunter game go buy a FPS, or STAR WARS BOUNTY HUNTER!!!

[Judge Hades]

Not really for there are quite a number of games that got it right without my need for it to be 100%. To name a few...

 

Fallout 1

Fallout 2

Baldur's Gate 1

Baldur's Gate 2

Icewind Dale

Icewind Dale 2

NWN

Arcanum

Might and Magic series

Ultima series (except U8 and U9)

The DnD Gold Box games

Wasteland

Bard's Tale 1

Bard's Tale 2

Bard's Tale 3

Deathlord

and so forth and so on...

[Judge Hades]

Its kind of stupid how some people don't want to be Jedi. With out lightsabers, the force, and robes its not really Star Wars....Why would you want to play a Star Wars game called Knights of the Old Republic when your character is a bounty hunter? If you just want a bounty hunter game go buy a FPS, or STAR WARS BOUNTY HUNTER!!!

Because I play role playing games and not FPS games.

[Quiquag]

Also this game isn't using the D20 system. The developers are either going to make the level cap much higher then 20 or not place one at all. The prestige classes have not been confirmed as of yet for non jedi classes, however bounty hunter sounds like a good one if they do exist.

[Shdy314]

I play the game as it is presented and if the developers cannot make the game right they need to find different work.  Until I see it without a shadow of a doubt fact that it is a design flaw of the game and not the munchkin nature of the Jedi class I shall remain in having this opinion.  Unfortuantely we can't test a 20th level scoundrel in a 20th level Jedi universe.

Uh but we can play D20 which does present challenges to Jedi PCs. So there is your evidence its a design flaw. As for bashing the developers you try making a game that satisfies 100% of players in every possible way.

 

Oh and enough with calling it munchkin. It isn't munchkin to have a world with powerful people. Are gods in DnD munchkin? Oh wait to self righteous Rpers they probably are.

[Judge Hades]

Have you even played d20 System Star Wars? The flaw is not with the system but the whole concept of the Jedi. They have no place n a balanced role playing game. They are good in movies, books, and FPS and fighting games but they are way too powerful to be let loose in an RPG, PnP, Computer, or otherwise.

 

Um, gods aren't PCs.

[Shdy314]

Have you even played d20 System Star Wars?

[Judge Hades]

PCs who become gods are regulated to NPC status and retired from play. At least thats how it goes in my campaigns.

 

Sorry, but I just don't believe you. It is in my experience that Jedis are way too overpowered and are for munchkin gamers. I have played Star Wars and role played a Jedi type and everything was practically a cake walk for me and I just don't want that sort of ease in my CRPGs. I play CRPGs for the sotry and for fun and if its a cake walk then its no fun.

[Shdy314]

PCs who become gods are regulated to NPC status and retired from play. At least thats how it goes in my campaigns.

 

Sorry, but I just don't believe you. It is in my experience that Jedis are way too overpowered and are for munchkin gamers. I have played Star Wars and role played a Jedi type and everything was practically a cake walk for me and I just don't want that sort of ease in my CRPGs. I play CRPGs for the sotry and for fun and if its a cake walk then its no fun.

I imagine the PCs a few levels before reaching godhood must have been pretty powerful yes? I imagine you still managed to find challenges for them until they reached godhood yes? At least I hope so. Not sure why you can't find challenges for a Jedi. Even GL can do it. We all know combat was way too easy in KOTOR but it was easy the whole time. Even when you are just a soldier/scoundrel/scout on Taris. So saying Jedi are overpowered because KOTOR is so easy is fallacious logic.

[Judge Hades]

In all my campaigns not a single character elevated to godhood. At least not in actual gameplay, but in the epilogue one or two did in that Planescape campaign I had going. I usually end a campaign story arc after 12 to 18 months of gaming (once a week averaging 6 hours a session) with the charactrs reaching 15th to 18th level. Still relatively managable.

 

Actually I had uite a number of challenging combats on Taris. Bendak most notably not a push over for my soldier character. That rancor beastie was nasty for my scoundrel as well as the Gamoreans. Once I became a Jedi with a light saber, didn't matter which Jedi class I took, the game got significantly easier.

[Quiquag]

I think some people here are taking the concept of a Jedi way to serious. The concept that a Jedi is more powerful then any bounty hunter or smuggler is well established. However people play RPGs for their escape factor from reality...A lot of people want to be Jedi, and such a game delivers this fantasy. Perhaps Jedis are powerful, but thats part of the fun of the game. Don't argue about how "realistic" it is to have a Jedi PC....its a game, and Jedi arent real. The whole point of the game is just to have fun and escape reality once in a while.

[Shdy314]

In all my campaigns not a single character elevated to godhood. At least not in actual gameplay, but in the epilogue one or two did in that Planescape campaign I had going. I usually end a campaign story arc after 12 to 18 months of gaming (once a week averaging 6 hours a session) with the charactrs reaching 15th to 18th level. Still relatively managable.

 

Actually I had uite a number of challenging combats on Taris. Bendak most notably not a push over for my soldier character. That rancor beastie was nasty for my scoundrel as well as the Gamoreans. Once I became a Jedi with a light saber, didn't matter which Jedi class I took, the game got significantly easier.

HA! Bendak can be killed by a level 2 scoundrel. Some challenge. The rancor? Uh just put some bait and a grenade and voila he's dead.

 

As for characters reaching 15-18 those are damn high levels man. A party of adventurers at that level would cut a swath through MOST enemies. I imagine though you didnt have them taking on kobolds. Same go for Jedi. Jedi should fight Sith and certain beasts and LARGE groups of soldiers etc.

[Judge Hades]

Actually in that party, back when they were around 8th level, they were fleeing kobolds. Heck one of them killed the paladin of the group and trapped the mad wizard of the group under water with electric current ripping into her.

 

At 15th to 18th level I had them facing an an ogre and his minions that were busy ressurecting the dead god Orcus.

 

I never used the "bait" against the rancor. I did use mines but the bait I used was Carth.

[Shdy314]

Actually in that party, back when they were around 8th level, they were fleeing kobolds. Heck one of them killed the paladin of the group and trapped the mad wizard of the group under water with electric current ripping into her.

 

At 15th to 18th level I had them facing an an ogre and his minions that were busy ressurecting the dead god Orcus.

You know what I meant. Heck you can make kobolds be a danger even to characters at level 12 especially if you are in a really low magic setting. My point was whatever horrors you were inflicting on your fellow DnDers you were providing them with a challenge. Despite the fact such levels are very high in DnD and many people whine that PCs at this level are too powerful.

[jaguars4ever]

I did use mines but the bait I used was Carth.

^_^

[GhostofAnakin]

PCs who become gods are regulated to NPC status and retired from play. At least thats how it goes in my campaigns.

 

Sorry, but I just don't believe you. It is in my experience that Jedis are way too overpowered and are for munchkin gamers. I have played Star Wars and role played a Jedi type and everything was practically a cake walk for me and I just don't want that sort of ease in my CRPGs. I play CRPGs for the sotry and for fun and if its a cake walk then its no fun.

If that's how you feel, then you miss the entire point of the Star Wars universe. A game without Jedi just isn't a true Star Wars game (unless you include a "fighter pilot" style game like X-Wing series).

 

Perhaps the difficulty needed tweaking, but that's not a fault of the Jedi class, that's the fault of the game not being super difficult. You make it sound like Jedi are invincible god-like characters, when in fact they DO have equals; Sith/Dark Jedi.

[Judge Hades]

Dark Jedi were a pushover in KotOR when my trio of jedi went into the Star Forge.

 

 

I just think if they allowed the player to play a non Force user it would give players like myself to play the game as he or she sees fit. On their own terms instead of the developers. Keep the Jedi as an option for the PC, but also have non-Jedi classes available as well.

[GhostofAnakin]

Dark Jedi were a pushover in KotOR when my trio of jedi went into the Star Forge.

 

 

I just think if they allowed the player to play a non Force user it would give players like myself to play the game as he or she sees fit. On their own terms instead of the developers. Keep the Jedi as an option for the PC, but also have non-Jedi classes available as well.

I don't understand your problem with it then. You didn't HAVE to use the Jedi skills. You could have just armed your PC with a blaster and armor instead, and disregarded his/her Force ability. The game didn't FORCE (pardon the pun) you to use the Force, or stack up your Jedi abilities. You could have easily played through the entire game as a regular person. In essense, KOTOR DID give you the option. You chose to use the Jedi skills.