Help needed with Helwalker/Ascendant

[PsyCoil]

I've tried Ascendant and Trickster first but while I really liked the defenses from Trickster I couldn't generate focus fast enough to ascend even with Draining Whip, so fights got drawn out a lot. 

I'm going ranged and Hearth Orlan as a personal choice and due to Helwalker being so squishy.

This is my stats spread:

Might 15 + Living Lands 1 + 2 Berath Blessings

Constitution 5 + 2 Berath Blessing

Dexterity 18 + 2 Berath Blessing

Peception 16 + 2 Hearth Orlan + 2 Berath Blessing

Intellect 16 + 2 Berath Blessing

Resolve 5 + 2 Berath Blessing

 

Is Might a waste on Helwalker? Any pro advice on how to overcome Helwalker squishness, especially early on? Maybe drop some might to Constitution? 

I know that with Duality of Mortal Presence - Mind and Salvation of Time I can really prolong the Ascendant status. Any other tips on how to prolong further? 

How viable is skipping Lesser Wounds with Helwalker until level 9-10?

 

Any input would be much appreciated.

 

 

Edited August 1, 2019 by PsyCoil

[Boeroer]

For an Ascendant/Helwalker MIG ist not a waste because one of your signature spells, Disintegration, profits a lot from him MIG AND high INT. MIG raises the dmg of the ticks and INT gives you more ticks. Together this is a huge dmg improvement for all sorts of DoT effects.

Helwalker is only squishy if you have many wounds. If there are situations where you want to be less squishy: spend wounds. At the same time Turning Wheel and Iron Wheel are not mutially exclusive - you could take both and switch once you think you need additional CON. I personally would just use healing from your buddies though. 

I never take lesser wounds. So it's totally viable. In my opinion it's not worth the ability point. Instead I'd rather use Mortification of the Soul. But that I also don't pick a lot.

If you are at 10 wounds (and started with maxed base INT in the first place) you will have plenty of ascension time. If you can raise this with SoT then even better. I know no practical way to increase that any further. Except more SoT from another priest or the same priest with the brilliant affliction - for example if you have a Tactician/Priest in the party. He could buff you up with endless SoT if the circumstances are right so that you get hours of ascension - but I'm pretty sure you don't want to experience the tedium of that in a normal party playthrough. Maxed INT + Tunrning Wheel (+10 INT) + one or two SoT is plenty, plenty ascension time.

What you can do to press more castings into your ascension time is to become faster (at casting). Not only the duration of your ascension determined how many spells you can cast during that period but also how fast you can cast them. Your first try would have been better as Ascendant/Streetfighter with Blunderbusses (better hand mortars) for example. He cuts his attacking/casting recovery in half which allows to reach ascension superfast and then cast more spells during ascension.

In case of Ascendant/Helwalker you want to have good DEX and raise action speed (see Lightnig Strikes - also raises DEX further and  helps with the focus generation because of the lash). 

Then you're good to go. 

If you are playing a ranged Ascendant/Helwalker I would recommend to use AoE weapons for the initial attack(s). Rods with Blast, cast with high INT on a group of enemies, might already fill up your focus to max. Watershaper's Focus is a superb weapon for the initial strike. If you turn on the Blast modal it will also jump with the projectile (Watersh. Focus has a build- in jump), giving you two AoE attacks with one shot. If you can pull some enemies together with your tank or with the cast of Dazzling Lights (luring enemies from stealth) and then hit them all with that first shot you will most likely start the encounter with ascension already. Also if you utilize hand mortars (Hand Mortar and Fire in the Hole). They have AoE dmg, two different dmg types and Fire in the Hole even jumps one time (including the AoE), giving you additional focus. Also Stunning Surge works wonderfully with them because all the AoE crits also count for the mortification refund. Downside is the limited range.

If you dump RES and CON to 5 you can as well dump it to 3. You won't feel a difference in squishyness but gain 4 points for the other stats that really matter. 

Once you can pick Borrowed Instincts you can lower your PER via retraining. Exept if it's the highest PER in yopur team because then you'd need it for finding traps and stuff.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Boeroer

[PsyCoil]

Right! I forgot about Disintegration, It's been a while since I have played a Cipher character. By the way I'm also playing with the Community Patch, which tempts me to take Biting Whip instead of Draining Whip for the raw damage, it's probably not worth it though.

I thought about Streetfighter but the Distracted -5 Perception and Flanked status (-10 Deflection) sounds way to big for me. With the same stat spread I'll have almost no Deflection early on. Too much babysitting for me to handle. 

Hmm, blunderbuss you say. Personally I thought about the Hunting Now modal which gives -15% Action Speed in exchange for Accuracy and this way I can dish damage a lot faster when Ascended fades. Guns in general feel slow for me because of the reload time (which isn't affected by Action Speed, correct me if I'm wrong).

Quote

Once you can pick Borrowed Instincts you can lower your PER via retraining. Exept if it's the highest PER in yopur team because then you'd need it for finding traps and stuff.

Wait, since when you can Respec base stats in this game? Did I miss something?

Edited August 2, 2019 by PsyCoil

[Boeroer]

Ha sorry. PoE1-induced brainfart with the retraining.  

Action speed modifiers work for reloading weapons as well. So with Swift Strikes you reload faster. Also with Two weapopn Style and dual wielding. Streetfighter's recovery bonus also works for reloading.

What does not work is Barbarian's Blood Thirst. It only removes recovery only, not reload though. But since you don't use a Barbarian... no problem.

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Boeroer

[PsyCoil]

Alright, this is the planned build. I have some doubt over skills. I think that when Ascended I want to spam damage spells and some CC as fast as possible.

Level 1Soul Shock/ Swift Strikes
Level 2 Lingering Echoes ??
Level 3 Two-handed for bow or Two weapon style
Level 4 Draining Whip / Dance of Death
Level 5 Recall Agony 
Level 6 Mental Binding
Level 7 Secret Horrors or Soul Ignition / Swift Flurry
Level 8 Soul Mirror
Level 9 Duality of Mortal Presence
Level 10  Mind Lance / Enduring Dance
Level 11 Thunderous Blows
Level 12 ???
Level 13 Borrowed Instinct / Uncanny Luck
Level 14 Rapid Casting
Level 15 Ringleader
Level 16 Disintegration / The Long Pain ??
Level 17 Amplified Wave
Level 18 The Empty Soul
Level 19 Stasis Shell or Ancestor's Memory / The Pain Persists
Level 20 Echoing Horror

Thoughts?

[Vonbek]

51 minutes ago, PsyCoil said:

Alright, this is the planned build. I have some doubt over skills. I think that when Ascended I want to spam damage spells and some CC as fast as possible.

Level 1Soul Shock/ Swift Strikes
Level 2 Lingering Echoes ??
Level 3 Two-handed for bow or Two weapon style
Level 4 Draining Whip / Dance of Death
Level 5 Recall Agony 
Level 6 Mental Binding
Level 7 Secret Horrors or Soul Ignition / Swift Flurry
Level 8 Soul Mirror
Level 9 Duality of Mortal Presence
Level 10  Mind Lance / Enduring Dance
Level 11 Thunderous Blows
Level 12 ???
Level 13 Borrowed Instinct / Uncanny Luck
Level 14 Rapid Casting
Level 15 Ringleader
Level 16 Disintegration / The Long Pain ??
Level 17 Amplified Wave
Level 18 The Empty Soul
Level 19 Stasis Shell or Ancestor's Memory / The Pain Persists
Level 20 Echoing Horror

Thoughts?

lvl 7 Horrors over Ignition for me every time, I find it just too useful for activating/enhancing my Tank and Melee characters

lvl 8 I'd swap Soul Mirror for something else. I never seem to get much mileage out of it on ranged characters

lvl 12 *cough* Silent Scream *cough*

Lvl 16 and 19 ( disclaimer : not tried a ranged monk yet ) why those on a ranged weapon character? I may be missing something here but surely the whole point of being Ranged is to not need these?

lvl 19 cipher?  I'd always be picking Memory for the Brilliant Inspiration

 

Beyond that looks decent and interesting, and as Boeroer says Blunderbusses is probably the one that will max you out for Ascend fastest.

4 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Helwalker is only squishy if you have many wounds. If there are situations where you want to be less squishy: spend wounds. At the same time Turning Wheel and Iron Wheel are not mutially exclusive - you could take both and switch once you think you need additional CON. I personally would just use healing from your buddies though. 

Boggles in Max Wound HW/Trickster Melee Build

Edited August 2, 2019 by Vonbek
Two/Too mixup

[PsyCoil]

The Long Pain has a pretty big range and it should benefit from Two Weapon Style. Basically you can punch enemies from afar and do it pretty fast, too.

Alright, I will try the blunderbuss first instead of bow.

[Boeroer]

The Long Pain is one of the best ranged (single target) weapons in the game.

[PsyCoil]

So after playing the build for a while and some testing I figure Hunting Bow modal is the way to go. For some reason the modal for the Hunting Bow has -50% Recovery Time with Hunting Bows and only -15 Accuracy penalty which can be easily offset by buffs and enchantments. Is that from the community patch? I searched the notes and didn't find it.

I get Ascended a LOT and very fast, too. 

By the way, does anyone know about this: 

 

It's +1 Dexterity + some great armor. Guns still felt very slow, even with Swift Strikes and 20 Dex. Not sure if reload is affected by Action Speed or not.

Edited August 2, 2019 by PsyCoil

[Boeroer]

It is affected. You can look it up if you watch the tooltips of your equipped weapon during combat.

The Hunting Bow modal wasn't changed by the Community Patch. It was always -50% recovery and -15 ACC. -15 ACC is pretty massive, especially in the earlyish game.

You could get better results with a single pistol + modal I reckon. It's only -3 ACC and also has -50% recovery/reload.

 

[PsyCoil]

On 8/2/2019 at 10:30 PM, Boeroer said:

It is affected. You can look it up if you watch the tooltips of your equipped weapon during combat.

The Hunting Bow modal wasn't changed by the Community Patch. It was always -50% recovery and -15 ACC. -15 ACC is pretty massive, especially in the earlyish game.

You could get better results with a single pistol + modal I reckon. It's only -3 ACC and also has -50% recovery/reload.

 

Played for a while and it does work very well with Scordeo's Trophy recovery time enchantment. It's -15 Accuracy too but I actually gain focus faster because I'm not dual wielding yet.

Keep thinking this would work better as Streetfighter but the blunderbuss has friendly aoe and low range, and I haven't found a way to apply Flanked on myself without going to the front line. 

 

[Boeroer]

Single wielding a pistol gives you +12 ACC. That's with all single handed weapons if you don't use an offhand weapon or a shield: you get +12 ACC even without any style. The modal is -15 ACC. Combined you get -3 ACC only but still -50% reloading time - which is a lot faster than dual wielding + two weapoon style. Generally speaking it's the best dps option when using pistol(s). Of course there might be certain unique items and synergies where you might not single wield a pistol - but in most cases a single pistol (+modal) is better than two. Single Weapon Style can give you +15% hit to crit conversion. This isn't too helpful with crit damage since pistols have reduces crit damage - but it can help with PEN issues as well as with on-crit effects (Stunning Surge for example or as you said Scordeo's Edge - which has enchanced crit modifiers).

Edited August 5, 2019 by Boeroer