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Questions about how changing attributes affects ongoing abilities


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#1
Jayd

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I'm playing an Ascetic right now and the build is starting to shape up nicely. But I had some questions about how abilities scale when your attributes shift while they are ongoing (Duality of Mortal Presence (DoMP), Helwalker Might). Hopefully one of you guys knows so that I don't have to test.

 

Let's say I cast Moonwell with 4 wounds (+4 Might); the healing effect gets applied with that bonus. Now a little while later I have 10 wounds (+10 Might) and the spell reapplies its effect (from my understanding, Moonwell applies its effect to everyone standing on it every 3 seconds) - will this application benefit from +4 MIG or +10?

 

I'm pretty sure that the Moonwell won't grow as my INT increases due to DoMP, right? That would be weird and noticeable. But what about Relentless Storm or Nature's Terror? Rather than an affect "attached" to the ground, they are applied to the character itself. Does their damage and radius increase/decrease as MIG and INT increase/decrease? Or are the set in stone at the time of casting?

 

I'm quite confident that spells like Plague of Insects and The Moon's Light, which just apply their affects to the target, won't scale to changing attributes. The question is whether this is different when a spell is self-targeted or persistent on the map.

 

What about passive abilities like chants and Paladin auras? Surely they must scale as your attributes change. I'm pretty sure giving an INT inspiration to a Chanter makes the chant radius grow, correct? But do they interact differently to active, self-targeted aura spells like Relentless Storm?

 

I'd appreciate any help.



#2
thelee

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I did some testing a while ago and I'm pretty sure might adjustments are dynamic to basically everything that is affected by might.

 

Intellect is a harder pickle and one I haven't tested thoroughly. I believe durations and aoe are set in stone at cast-resolution-time for persistent hazards and most other effects.

 

Paladin auras do dynamically adjust to intellect. Do note that they are not technically "passive," they are active. Call them persistent or something if you will, but active vs passive has specific meaning w.r.t to stacking rules and they are all definitely active for that purpose.

 

The remaining slice that I'm unsure about are the chant and aura-equivalents (e.g. Spark the Souls of the Righteous, Nature's Terror) as you mention. I'm 90% sure that their AoEs are set-in-stone at cast time so later intellect adjustments will do nothing. I'm 90% sure that chant aoes are set-in-stone at chant time. Testing with chant would be easy - have an ally stand right outside the chant radius, then buff the chanter with an intellect inspiration and see if the party member gets the chant immediately or upon the next song - I'm fairly positive you have to wait for the next song. I vaguely suspect that effects like Spark the Souls, Nature's Terror, and Relentless Storm are similar in that they are set at cast-time, even though they follow you around. In this respect I think auras are "special" in having their radius checked repeatedly.



#3
Jayd

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I did some testing a while ago and I'm pretty sure might adjustments are dynamic to basically everything that is affected by might.

 

Does that include effects that only exist on other targets after being cast? Like Plague of Insects will start doing more damage if I get more might afterwards?

 

 

Paladin auras do dynamically adjust to intellect. Do note that they are not technically "passive," they are active. Call them persistent or something if you will, but active vs passive has specific meaning w.r.t to stacking rules and they are all definitely active for that purpose.

OK, good to know. Does that mean that the armor bonus from Paladin aura doesn't stack with active armor buffs? Iron Wheel, Robust/Hardy, Nor Flame, etc? Presumably it stacks with the Paladin's own Stoic Steel and Inspired Triumph.



#4
Boeroer

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Pulsing and jumping spells like Walls, Beams, Chillfog, Consecrated Ground, Slicken, Jolting Touch, Eld Nary and so on (even Rolling Flame and such) will adjust their values after cast if something changes - be it ACC, MIG, Power Level, PEN and so on (also see answer to the question "Why does the Bellower's PL bonus for invocations have a duration?").

 

If I remember correctly the power of Moon's Light/Moonwell's/Garden of Life healing ticks (healing over time) drop on a Lifegiver once you re-shift and suffer the -5 PL debuff. So that would mean that healing over time also adjusts its ticks based on current caster values. Like pulsing/jumping spells do.

 

If damage over time works anything like healing over time (in that regard) that would mean that Plague of Insects' ticks should also drop if you lose MIG, Power Level and so on. But I'm not really sure. Would need to test that. 

 

So don't pin me down on this (until I did some tests or somebody else verifies). :)

 

Edit: Paladin's auras don't stack with other actives, correct. Zealous Endurance's +1 AR will not stack with Gilded Enmity, Iron Wheel and such. Sotic Steel etc., are passives (right side of the ability tree) and thus stack with everything. Generally it's: Left side - actives (don't stack) / Right side: passives (do stack), but there are exceptions (Chanter phrases are on the right side but sometimes don't stack, Devotions is on the left side but stacks with Zealous Focus because ZF is universal ACC but Devotions is melee/ranged only ACC, Vigorous Defense does universal defense buff is left side but stacks with active Deflection only buffs and so on).


Edited by Boeroer, 08 April 2019 - 10:30 PM.

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#5
Jayd

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Oh shoot; I didn't even think about PL changes. My current shtick is to use Spine of Thicket Green to cast really strong beast/plant spells and then shapeshift for melee. But when I shift the staff disappears, so it might mean that the spells lose power. It should be pretty easy to check at least for some spells by just looking at the duration. I'll report back.



#6
Boeroer

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Indeed.

 

I don't know if durations will change - those may be set in stone once cast - like AoE size. But you could watch the damage of ticks from Plague of Insects. That should give you an answer.



#7
Jayd

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You were absolutely right. Nothing changes duration once it has been set, but damage changes according to both Might and Power Level. Insect Swarm (don't have Plague yet) went from ticks of 14 to ticks of 12 when I shifted (Might staying the same). It also scales with Might.


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#8
Boeroer

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Cool. I mean that you tested it. :) Thanks for that!  


Edited by Boeroer, 09 April 2019 - 02:14 AM.


#9
Enoch

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Thanks to all of you. 

 

This has been an informative thread-- it gave me some answers to questions that I'd previously wondered about, but never put the effort into testing or asking. 


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