Brawling/Bashing Shield question

[Gurusto]

Hi. Tried searching the forums and internet in general but couldn't find an answer and figured this place seems to have the highest concentration of knowledgeable people compared to other options, so I went ahead and made an account for this question:

 

In PoE1 there was an issue where using a Bashing shield would actually decrease your dps compared to a regular shield due to the weaker bashing attacks effectively replacing half your main-hand attacks.

 

Was this actually fixed in Deadfire? The Magran's Blessing shield looks interesting with it's dual damage types and fire shield, but it'd be nice to know if it's actually a gain or loss in terms of damage compared to just regular weapon + shield. Has anyone tested this?

[MountainTiger]

Bashing shields now count as off-hand weapons, so you get the action speed bonus for dual wielding and can get the benefits from two weapon style; this at least partially solves the attack speed problem. But most of them still suffer from not scaling like weapon enchantments. Tuotilo's Palm is an exception: it scales with Transcendent Suffering, so you get plenty of accuracy and penetration, though damage still sucks because the base damage is very low.

[Jayd]

Bashing shields now count as off-hand weapons, so you get the action speed bonus for dual wielding and can get the benefits from two weapon style; this at least partially solves the attack speed problem. But most of them still suffer from not scaling like weapon enchantments. Tuotilo's Palm is an exception: it scales with Transcendent Suffering, so you get plenty of accuracy and penetration, though damage still sucks because the base damage is very low.

Do they benefit from both two weapon and weapon and shield style simultaneously?

[Boeroer]

Yes. You have to pick both of course in order to profit from the abilities ("styles").

Edited February 25, 2019 by Boeroer

[Ensign]

Early in the game they are attractive due to being able to benefit from both style traits, but with the exception of Tuotilo's Palm they fall off dramatically. The lack of accuracy, damage, and crucially penetration bonuses cause them to fall behind regular weapon and shield once you get superior weapons or so.

[Boeroer]

Depends:

 

1. They are pretty handy for ranged casters who only want to use a ranged weapon occasionally but at the same time don't want to get toasted by ranged enemies and thus want more deflection. You'll get higher attack speed and recovery (also good to be able to react more quickly) and higher defelction and reflex.
2. They count as melee weapons and thus unlock tha usage of some melee-only abilites like Clear Out, Hunter's Claw, Whirling Strikes and so on with ranged weapons in the main had. Example Clear Out + Hand Mortar or Blunderbuss + Hunter's Claw (+8 ACC per shot due to 4 pellets). This also works with any other melee weapon instead of a bashing shield, but since those abilites don't use the offhand anyway you can as well go for the added deflection & reflex.

But generally I agree.

[Ensign]

Good point, they should work well in ranged weapon + shield combos where you get the two weapon style speed but never actually swing the shield as a weapon. As long as you avoid actually getting into and using it as a weapon in melee it could be pretty good.

 

Kinda a pet peeve since after the complaints about bashing shields lowering DPS in pillars 1 I had hoped they had a solution for deadfire...but no.

[Boeroer]

I think they are ok now. Making them as good as a normal shield in terms of defense AND giving the same advantages as a melee weapon would be too good.

But the quality scaling should be done properly for the bashing stats (PEN, DMG bonus, ACC) as well not only for the defensive ones.

Edited March 1, 2019 by Boeroer

[Ensign]

I don't know that they need full stat scaling. Getting unarmed scaling would be fine in my book, forcing another trait choice to let them continue scaling into the late game.

 

As is yes, I think they're a fun and useful tool early in the game but once you pick up exceptional+ gear the lack of scaling mods is very apparent, and it doesn't take long for them to fall behind plain shields from a damage perspective (barring ranged + shield shenanigans).