4.1 bug: inconsistent item duration

[Madscientist]

https://imgur.com/a/U4P9IBg

 

This is the bubbling charlice. It has a different duration for different characters even though they have the same alchemy skill value.

It may be different because chars have different resolve value, but I am not sure.

All characters are level 20.

Most potions show the same value for duration or healing when they have the same alchemy skill. It never shows a red number and the value is never below base value. ( If they do not have an effect that reduces healing, I have not tested it with effects that could reduce healing or duration)

 

expected behaviour:

- The tooltip for potions ( or other things that are influenced by alchemy) should show "alchemy" as reason for the increased effect, not "level".

- If the effect or duration of an item or skill is influenced by resolve it should be shown in the tooltip.

- Resolve should not lower the duration of beneficial effects ( as it is for most potions with duration)

- Only hit points, acuracy and defenses should be influenced by level. Abilities can be influenced by power level, which is something different than level. A tooltip should not show "level" when it is not influenced by level.

- If something is influenced by several factors, the tooltip should show them as separate things, not combine them and call it level ( In my example the duration is influenced by alchemy and something else, maybe resolve but I am not sure.

 

I have not tested this for most items and I am also not sure what to expect if an item/ability has both positive and negative effects or if an item/ability can have effects on allies and enemies.

[thelee]

A long long time ago, various consumables had different "inherent ability level" much in the same way abilities have an inherent ability level. If you had total PL less than this inherent ability level, you would actually get PL scaling penalties (with inversions) instead of PL bonuses. With like patch 2.0 or something, they were supposed to have rebalanced all consumabesl to have an inherent ability level of 0, so you could only get upside scaling from PL.

 

It looks like the bubbling chalice might have a high inherent ability level, and that's why you are seeing negative scaling attributed to "level" ("level" in tooltips encompasses power level scaling [which includes scaling from skill points like alchemy] and character level). Other effect you talk about (bonus or penalty to healing) would not be attributed to "level." Similarly, negative or positive effects from resolve never show up in tooltips, they only show up in combat log implicitly (when the actual duraiton for an effect diverges from the hover-over duration, you can impute the difference due to resolve).

 

I do not know why it would vary from character to character if they are all level 20 and they all have the same alchemy skill. Do they have other PL bonuses? Are some multiclass vs single-class? -13% due to "level" is exactly what you would expect if your total PL was 3 less than the inherent ability level (1-1/1.15)... just as a theory, for example, a multiclass character caps out at exactly 3 less PL than a single-class character with Prestige.

 

Either way, at the very least having a high inherent ability level for a consumable is buggy - it should be tweaked so that internally it is AL0.

Edited January 30, 2019 by thelee

[Madscientist]

In my party there is a different duration for Eder (lv20 fighter/rogue) and Pallegina (lv20 paladin/fighter), both have zero alchemy.

Eder: 37.5sec (-17%)

Pallegina: 40.9sec (-9%)

 

I think it did not change when equipping int or res items ( I am not 100% sure)

None of them uses equipment that reduces duration of things.

 

Sorry, I do not know why things are like this or how it should be for this item.

 

This is an item from SSS, so it came after version 2.0. It should be there since 3.0 I guess.

[thelee]

In my party there is a different duration for Eder (lv20 fighter/rogue) and Pallegina (lv20 paladin/fighter), both have zero alchemy.

Eder: 37.5sec (-17%)

Pallegina: 40.9sec (-9%)

 

I think it did not change when equipping int or res items ( I am not 100% sure)

None of them uses equipment that reduces duration of things.

 

Sorry, I do not know why things are like this or how it should be for this item.

 

This is an item from SSS, so it came after version 2.0. It should be there since 3.0 I guess.

 

Int should have 0 effect on a consumable.

 

The only clues here: -17% is exactly equivalent to a -4 PL deficit and -9% is exactly equivalent to a -2 PL deficit. So it definitely seems like we're looking at something related to PL scaling and an inherent ability level.

 

If you take off everything from each character, do you still get the variations? What passives do they have? Do they have other skills (in case bubbling chalice is looking at something else other than alchemy)? Importantly we'd be looking for something that is different between Eder and Pallegina by two in some way (it could also be a multiple of two) and which Pallegina has more of.

 

edit: also, who was holding it when you took the screenshot for the -13% ?

Edited January 30, 2019 by thelee

[Madscientist]

https://imgur.com/a/zWNCisv

 

OK, I found some answers.

Pallegina had Magrans Favor equipped, an axe that gives +2 power levels for fire abilities.

When I unequip it she has the same duration as Eder (-17%).

The char with -13% is a mage/assassin with 1 point of alchemy.

Xoti (single class priest with 12 alchemy) has +45% duration.

Aloth (single class mage with zero alchemy) has -13%, equipping the firethrowers gloves (+1 evocation) gives -9%

Both Aloth and Xoti have the prestigue talent (+1 power level)

 

The tooltip of the damage shows the same % numbers as duration.

 

expected behaviour:

- Usable items should not have a duration/damage/other effect below the base value.

[thelee]

https://imgur.com/a/zWNCisv

 

OK, I found some answers.

Pallegina had Magrans Favor equipped, an axe that gives +2 power levels for fire abilities.

When I unequip it she has the same duration as Eder (-17%).

The char with -13% is a mage/assassin with 1 point of alchemy.

Xoti (single class priest with 12 alchemy) has +45% duration.

Aloth (single class mage with zero alchemy) has -13%, equipping the firethrowers gloves (+1 evocation) gives -9%

Both Aloth and Xoti have the prestigue talent (+1 power level)

 

The tooltip of the damage shows the same % numbers as duration.

 

expected behaviour:

- Usable items should not have a duration/damage/other effect below the base value.

 

I played a little bit with my own Bubbling Chalice last night as well.

 

I think by default Bubbling Chalice has an inherent AL of 13. It uses the buggy consumable scaling (also applies to Monastic Unarmed Order) of always using single-class PL scaling, even if multi-classed. Because the ability is keyworded like the wizard flame shield spell, it benefits both from generic PL scaling, alchemy scaling as well as fire and evocation PL boosts.

 

I had a character with an alchemy of 13 as well as prestige and they had +50% on the duration, which aligns with my above theory and the numbers you are getting.

 

So with all our sleuthing, the solution should be: re-balance the bubbling chalice to have an AL of 0.