Single class start with 1 ability?

[AeonsLegend]

So it's been a while since I picked single class and I don't rightly remember if this was always the case, but it seems kind of odd that a single class starts with 1 ability and multiclass gets to pick 2 (one from each class). Shouldn't single class start with 2 abilities as well??

[XauripMaster]

You get an extra ability point every power level. Multiclasses only get 7 power levels compared to the 9 a pure class gets. So single classed characters actually have one more ability over multis.

[Boeroer]

Single class picks 2 abilities per level up more often afterwards because of higher Power Level.

[AeonsLegend]

Single class picks 2 abilities per level up more often afterwards because of higher Power Level.

You make that sound as if it nullifies the slower start. They get their power levels sooner, not more often. I'm still short 1 ability as opposed to multi class. Makes playing single class cipher real lame at the start of the game.

[Boeroer]

I make it sound like that because it does. They get more Power Levels as well. 9 instead of 7. All in all Multiclass chars will have 27 ability points at lvl 20 and single class will have 28:

 

[AeonsLegend]

I make it sound like that because it does. They get more Power Levels as well. 9 instead of 7. All in all Multiclass chars will have 27 ability points at lvl 20 and single class will have 28:

 

Yes I know all that. I'm talking about the start of the game. Say I start the game as a seer with ghost heart. I basically am 3 times as useful as a single class cipher for a good 4 levels. At level 1 I get a summon that's basically an extra party member, I get an ability from Ranger AND I get one from Cipher. I also get 2 passives. Single class Cipher starts with only 1 ability and 1 passive. Man sometimes I wish they incorporated the D&D style multiclass system that has you choose a class at level up and not just merge two classes as 1.

[Boeroer]

If you know that they get the equal amount of points, why do you complain? Even at the start of the game (the first few levels on the beach + wilderness) the single class gets acces to PL 2 at lvl 3 while the multiclass has to wait for lvl 4. THis is all fairly well balanced. Multiclass chars start a bit better usually because they are front-loaded with lvl-0-passives but the single class catches up pretty soon and then is ahead when it comes to higher lvl abilities and PL scaling but lacks resources. I can't see where this is a problem. Most likely because it isn't.

 

And then we even haven't talked about the higher levels where single classes get access to PL 8 and 9 which are generally better than ,ost stuff multiclasses can unlock at those levels.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Boeroer

[AeonsLegend]

I "complain" because a single class starts the game at a disadvantage and has to play catchup. Also has 20% less hp, so there's that.

[Elric Galad]

Yup, Single Class are strictly worse at level 1.

 

I wish Single Class could receive a bonus of some sort at creation, such as higher ressource pool (and maybe extra PL 1 casts for casters).

[Boeroer]

I "complain" because a single class starts the game at a disadvantage and has to play catchup. Also has 20% less hp, so there's that.

Huh? Why less hp? Afaik the starting health of each multiclass gets added and devided by 2 = multiclass health?

 

If you mix a Barb (higher health) with a Wizard (lower health) you'll have lower health overall than a single class barb - or not?

 

And yes, the single class is a but weaker at the start of the game because of the frontloaded multiclass - but I donÄt see that as a problem since the single class usually is stronger at the higher levels. Multiclass: start strong, flat progression, single class: start weaker, steeper progression. So overall I don't see a fundamental balancing problem. The only thing is that players who dabble into builds and have restarteritis could get the impression that multclass is generally better. Which is not the case if you look at a complete playthrough.

[Elric Galad]

I don't think Single Class are stronger as a general rule.

 

For martial classes (apart monk), the incredibly lower ressource pool compared to multi is a problem IMHO.

(Barbarians have excellent 1 rage shouts, and Paladins get Divine Retribution, so the problem is mostly for Rangers, Rogue, and non-tactician Fighter.)

This is even more true now that long-lasting Megaboss battles have been introduced.

The rest is okay, but not necessarily better than some multi combos, I think.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Elric Galad

[Boeroer]

I don't think Single Class are stronger as a general rule.

I didn't say that. I said they tend to be stronger at higher levels. I mean just because most of the highest PL abilites are very strong.

 

Look at Gamit/Vanishing Strikes/Resonant Touch/Whispers of the Wind/Whirling Strikes/HoF/Driving Roar/Meteor Shower/Maelstrom/Clean Sweep an whatnot. And they have +2 PL in general which means +10% more base damage, longer base durations, higher base ACC with abilites.

On the other hand the multiclasses have more resources, start stronger and can have great synergies. It's not balanced in every case, but all in all I'd say the balance between single class and multiclass is there.

 

I personally find most single classes more useful in a party than multiclasses in general. There are exceptions of course.

But for example it's better in my opinion to bring a Berseker with Grave Calling and a Beckoner than to bring a Berseker/Beckoner. Same functionality but more power levels and way better high level stuff - adn they can act in parallel. You lose a party slot though.

 

By the way single class Rogues and his high level problems (3 attacks: all dead):

 

]

 

 

 

 

I guess most people don't realize how good certain abilites are because they never play single classes till the end. Gambit and esp. Vanishing Strike are very strong (the invisibility doesn't break - no matter what you do).

Edited January 26, 2019 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

Annd by the way my single class dude Serafen (who's nowhere near optimized for this):

 

 

 

 

 

 

Note the beauty of Blood Thirst + Driving Roar combined with Blood Surge (kills set recovery to 0 and give me a 25% chance to get +1). Look at my rage pool...
He's my no-two damage dealer in that party (only second to the Whispers-of-the-Wind Mortar Monk).

Edited January 26, 2019 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

Vanishing Strike is indeed the main reason to go Single Class Rogue, no question about this (I have even made a thread about it https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/107624-would-you-consider-max-int-on-a-single-class-rogue/ ), and I did quote Barbarian Shouts in my previous post.

 

In addition :

 

SC Rangers :

Imbue : Death + bouncing along with AoE Enfeeble is a good reason to go SC Ranger.

On-Hit effect + Twin Arrows and Stunning Shots aren't too bad either.

 

SC Fighters :

Toughened Fury could work for fighter. Clear Out upgrades are good.
I still have to test Take the Hit interaction with Unbending.
Sundering Blow has probably just been inderectly nerfed with the AoE Weapon nerf.

 

SC Paladins :

Divine Retribution is enough to justify it anyway, everything else is just icing.

 

PL is only a multiplicator for abilities. However, Martials also rely on auto-attacking with great passive (which don't scale with PL, except Carnage & Sneak Attack).

 

So yes, SC can work.

Still I find that their "stricly worse start" and ultimate weakness in long fights annoying.

A couple more ressources at start would fix it. No need to give them as much as multi, whose abilities are a bit less strong.

[Boeroer]

Can also show a SC ranger with Whirling Strikes moping the floor with some dummies.

 

SC Fighter: Clean Sweep has an enormous AoE. But unfortunately there's no indicator. But its huge (for a melee attack). Can also post a gif about that. "A gif is worth a thousand words".

 

Besides Devine Retribution I find Paladins to be the only class which hasn't a real killer ability at higher levels. Sacred Immolation + upgrades is just meh. If only Light of pure Zeal wasn't Vessel/Spirit only...

Edited January 26, 2019 by Boeroer

[Nssheepster]

Single Class VS Multi Class seems pretty clear IMO. Multi gets two resource pools, an easier start early on. Single class has less resources and a slower start, but has better PL and the best abilites in the late game, as well as reaching higher level abilites earlier in the game. Multis are good at outlasting with small-medium abilities, Singles are good at nuking with medium-high abilities and then finishing off with small abilities.

[Ensign]

Though counting powers is a reasonable proxy for character effectiveness, and multiclass characters definitely start much stronger in that respect, all powers are far from equal and looking at where characters come online and have power spikes is a bigger deal.

 

A lot of classes have big power spikes at PL 3 and 4, making those single classes come online and do their awesome stuff a lot faster. Yes, you'll be weaker clearing out the dig site (unless you start at level 4 with the blessing), but once you are off Maje isle your single class characters will be meaningfully stronger than a mediocre multiclass character.

[Boeroer]

Exactly my point of view.