Building a full-AI party for PotD

[srulz]

I'm currently deep in my 1st playthrough, and while not playing I'm currently brainstorming a build for my 2nd one. Basically I want to create a hands-off party, meaning every battle I leave everything to the AI - complete automation. Difficulty is PotD, non-upscaled though because I hate level scaling in general, but I will be playing with companions instead of full custom party. So my current considerations for main character:

 

1. Devoted/Berserker using Amra axe for mobs, and Oathbreaker for bosses:

-> From my testing, it seems that Amra does hit the same target twice (with 2nd damage almost equivalent to a Carnage). The main star of the show, however, is the 50hp auto-kill upgrade, which will just blow up mobs in combination with Mob Stance & Blood Thirst & Carnage & Barbaric Blow & Blood Lust & Clear Out. Against single target, raw damages from Oathbreaker + Blood Frenzy + axe modal stacks to just shred bosses. Also very tanky with Unbending & Refreshing Defenses, and uses DoC Breastplate to counter the Confusion. Will take the Unarmed talent as a backup vs slash immune, because it's equivalent to a multiclass monk's fist at level 19+.

 

OR

 

2. Soul Blade/Trickster using Sun and Moon Flail in mainhand, and Tuotilo’s palm in offhand:

-> While not as flashy or as explosive as above, spamming Soul Annihilation (2nd free hit generates focus) does result in a ridiculously high single-target DPS, and the Trickster side provides even more DPS and a whole lot of survivability. It also doesn't depend on Flanked/Distracted buffs like a Streetfighter, and since you don't use your Guile for your main attacks, you can just use them all to make sure you survive. Also, Borrowed Instinct is just crazy.

 

So basically high AOE DPS vs really high single-target DPS.

 

For my other companions, I would probably use the following party:

 

1. Maia - Gunhawk/Rogue

-> single-target ranged DPS, spamming The Red Hand.

 

2. Mirke - Monk/Streetfighter

-> AOE ranged DPS, spamming Hand Mortar/Fire in the Hole to get perma-Streetfighter buff.

 

3. Xoti - Monk

-> AOE melee DPS, spamming Whisper of the Wind infinitely thanks to the subclass's bonus & Dance of Death.

 

4. Pallegina - Paladin/Chanter

-> Tank/Healer, +fire & +reload chants, Exalted Focus aura, using Shared Flames once every ~8 seconds, spamming AOE Paralyze, healing with Lay on Hands as needed.

 

So opinions are appreciated. I'm currently leaning towards the Devoted/Berserker mainly due to the coolness and flashiness factor, however I'm still open to other suggestions. Remember, it needs to be a low-micro build which can be completely automated.

[Nssheepster]

I can't comment on the second idea, but... I have tried to automate the Brute Mob Slayer kind of build, and I always seem to run into the same issue... The AI changes targets for no apparent reason, no matter what I tell it to target. On top of that, even if my AI is set to not allow disengagement, the character will disengage regardless. Maybe I'm missing something in the AI, but the Berskerer/Mob Stance trick only really works if you focus on ONE member of the mob, kill it, and trigger, trigger, trigger. If you can get the AI to sort out, maybe by using that More AI Mod I've heard about, then that'll be pretty good.

 

Also worth nothing... If you go with the Brute, you don't need Xoti as a second AOE melee DPS. You've already got one, and AOE ranged DPS. Brutes should easily end up with enough Reflex to ignore the AOE out of Mirke. Set Xoti up with Lightning Strikes and the Magran's Blessing shield, from Sacred Stair. Get her doing Crush Shock Fire at the same time, give her a swap to The Best Defense shield later on to work Pierce into her setup, or the armor from SSS, Kahako Nihi for the Pierce from that. You can get a nice spread of damage on monks and use a generic penetration increase, like Hot Razor Skewers, to get at least some damage in against most anything.

[Sanctuary]

Until they fix the issues with cooldown timers simply being ignored, and the AI just chain casting the same buffs, fully automatic is going to be problematic unless you simply decide to not use any buffs at all.  These have been problematic since launch though, so I doubt it's going to get fixed.

Edited January 19, 2019 by Sanctuary

[Frog Man]

Until they fix the issues with cooldown timers simply being ignored, and the AI just chain casting the same buffs, fully automatic is going to be problematic unless you simply decide to not use any buffs at all. These have been problematic since launch though, so I doubt it's going to get fixed.

Pretty sure you just don’t know how to use the system Dude. This never happens to me. Hasn’t since my first playthrough. Watch a YouTube video or something.

[TheMetaphysician]

This is a cool idea. A couple of ideas:

 

- This seems tailor-made for playing with Magran's Challenge enabled, which disables pause. It seems like the key to beating Magran's Challenge is writing good AI routines.

 

- I highly recommend installing the "more AI" stuff mod that's available on Nexus. It gives you a lot more options for AI, and some are pretty important.

[Nssheepster]

Until they fix the issues with cooldown timers simply being ignored, and the AI just chain casting the same buffs, fully automatic is going to be problematic unless you simply decide to not use any buffs at all.  These have been problematic since launch though, so I doubt it's going to get fixed.

That's a bug? I assumed that I was getting hit by an affliction. I have that issue with all my Barbarians. I set them to Self:Constitution Inspiration, Not, cast Frenzy, and every now and again I get the Barb just casting Frenzy over and over.

[Frak]

The AI sucks at placing AOE's effectively. For instance you cannot default - I know nothing of mods - program a healing AOE-spell to both "hit most teammates" and "include teammate with lowest health", so I would definitely spec Pallegina to do as much healing as possible, also through chants.

[Sanctuary]

 

Until they fix the issues with cooldown timers simply being ignored, and the AI just chain casting the same buffs, fully automatic is going to be problematic unless you simply decide to not use any buffs at all. These have been problematic since launch though, so I doubt it's going to get fixed.

Pretty sure you just don’t know how to use the system Dude. This never happens to me. Hasn’t since my first playthrough. Watch a YouTube video or something.

 

 

Seriously?  I've been playing off and on since launch (200+ hours at launch), and I've set up plenty of fully automated fights that work pretty well.  The problem--that has been here since launch--is that certain buffs ignore that they are already applied, especially those that don't have the "has inspiration XXX" with the "not" checked.  For example, Disciplined Barrage used to cast, and then the AI would not recast it if you put a cooldown on it.  Then it randomly started ignoring that, and you had to add the "not" requirement.  Circle of Protection RANDOMLY follows the logic set for it as well as the cooldown, and other times it simply casts one directly after the other. 

 

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/103335-bug-102-ai-action-set-cooldown-dosent-work/

 

Good luck ever getting Spirit Shield to work correctly at the start of a fight if you happened to take the Combat Focus skill too.  The only way I have managed to get this to NOT spam cast (it completely ignores the cooldown timer) is with the "not" concentration option, and not have Combat Focus.

 

Most of the buffs can be set up to work correctly, but not all of them.

 

It gets even worse when you encounter any Arcane Dampener caster, and PotD is plagued with them.  Theirs works 100% of the time too unless you're a gimmick build that gouges Will, yet yours works on almost nothing that really needs it.  Besides that, there's no accounting for being hit with it via AI.  You have to simply set the characters to attack only if they are hit with it.

 

Then there's the problem where sometimes your characters just get stuck permanently trying to cast something, because the game acts like there's some random targeting issues, even when it's an ability that targets the caster.  You then have to move them, even if it's just a pixel and then force cast it again to get it to actually cast.

Edited January 19, 2019 by Sanctuary

[XauripMaster]

 

Then there's the problem where sometimes your characters just get stuck permanently trying to cast something, because the game acts like there's some random targeting issues, even when it's an ability that targets the caster.  You then have to move them, even if it's just a pixel and then force cast it again to get it to actually cast.

 

 

You don't have to move. You can just force that character to stop and then cast the spell again, even while paused.

[Frog Man]

Well then apologies for two things 1) reread my comment and I sounded like a jerk, not my intention! And 2) not being aware that that was an issue. Hadn’t seen it except for when I didn’t know how to use the system. But obviously I believe your extensive play testing.

[srulz]

@Nssheepster:

 

1. I'm currently using the non-modded AI, and I haven't encountered this issue. I did use Nearest Target as my priority target though, and on the very bottom I put a generic Always True -> Attack -> Nearest Target, and on the AI choice I put List Order even when there's only 1 AI, because I heard if it's Random sometimes it will choose the nonexistent AI instead, which will do random things. So far from my testing, if I put Target Health = Near Death -> Barbaric Smash -> Lowest Health, the barb does prioritize accordingly.

 

2. There are hardly any Crush Immunes right? Xoti does have a double duty of stacking Resonant Touches on bosses. I'm not sure yet how to set up the trigger though, probably need to use the Time Elapsed condition in the More AI mod.

 

@Sanctuary:

 

1. TBH in the latest patch I've found no issues whatsoever with the cooldown timer being ignored. I do recall there's 1 patch note which mentioned that. I'm currently using Aloth as a Battlemage, and there's no spamming of Spirit Shield etc being done. Thankfully in the more AI mod the conditions are a lot more robust, so this shouldn't be an issue.

 

2. Yes, Arcane Dampener is a problem. So the more conditions in the mod should counter this issue somewhat. That's also the reason why I don't use Aloth as well, since he's too dependent on his buffs to do much of anything.

 

3. So far I haven't encountered this AI bugging out issue too frequently, except in the case in which AI cannot properly pathfind (eg. In ship battles, when going up the nearest stair even when the other stair id available). I did use movement stuff like Charge a lot though (with timers), so this issue does get mitigated somewhat.

 

@TheMetaphysician:

 

1. Indeed, it's great fun when everything runs like a clockwork. In my current party Eder immediately Charge to enemy squishes with Aloth a second later after buffing, while Xoti holds the frontline with her 2 clones, while my main char (Streetfighter/Bleakwalker) proceeds to demolish everything from afar with Maia. Ship battles are even better with all the benchwarmers fighting as well. Mirke especially has been overperforming even when equipped with only an Exceptional Robe.

 

3. While Magran's Challenge made sense, I'm mainly afraid of the bugs, like the one with Infamous Captain. There are hardly anyone playing them, so bugs would go unnoticed. I don't think there any rewards/achievements with them right?

 

@Frak: Yes, that's why I would set earlier conditions and/or mainly using targeted heals.

[Nssheepster]

I haven't seen a ton of crush immunes. More about crush resistance. Since monks aren't reasonably going to 'swap' to a different pair of fists, getting a good spread of damage on their fists can be good. Xoti does have that scythe and lantern.... But I've honestly never found either of them more valuable than just using her fists, even after the lantern upgrade. You certainly don't have to do it, it's just something I find useful. Just don't really need her on AOE duty if you're going to have a hyper-AOE focused melee DPS already.

 

As for Barbaric Blow... I'm just telling the AI to auto attack, not use an ability. Perhaps that's why? Not sure. I do have it set to list order though. It's sadly not a consistent issue, so I can't really narrow down what specifically is causing it in a specific instance, or I'd have bug reported it by now. Just, every so often, my auto attackers will swap targets for no apparent reason. I tried Nearest Target, it caused even more swapping whenever an enemy shifted things. I tried Current Engager, but if there's multiple, it swaps. I tried Highest/Lowest Health, Threat levels.... Just nada. The closest I've gotten to it being safe to ignore is Nearest Target, but it's sadly not consistent. In that instance, at least, I can tell what's messing things up, it's the pack shifting around my character causing the 'Nearest' to change.

[Sanctuary]

 

 

Then there's the problem where sometimes your characters just get stuck permanently trying to cast something, because the game acts like there's some random targeting issues, even when it's an ability that targets the caster.  You then have to move them, even if it's just a pixel and then force cast it again to get it to actually cast.

 

 

You don't have to move. You can just force that character to stop and then cast the spell again, even while paused.

 

 

Unless you literally mean hitting the stop button, for certain spells (especially personal AoE spells like Returning or Relentless Storm), simply trying to recast doesn't work.  But if hitting stop allows them to actually cast when you try it again, why was this an issue in the first place?  There wasn't even really a target, since it's just a radius around the caster anyway.  I've had this also happen with stuff like Arcane Veil and a few other buffs.  It's pretty rare for this to happen, but really annoying when it does regardless.

 

@Srulz: My current party all have some kind of caster component, and three out of five of them load up on buffs every encounter.  I've seen the issues with the AI consistently throughout my current playthrough, and it does, in fact completely ignore cooldown timers with some buffs.  Doesn't matter what qualifier is used either unless it's one of the "not" inspirations.  On my Battlemage, I kept wondering where the hell all of my early casts were going and they were being eaten up by Spirit Shield.  Timer, doesn't matter.  It also didn't even follow the logic to cast it IF I had Infuse with Vital Essence up.  I have fit/smart, so cast?  Nope, completely ignores it.  The only thing that it seems to reliably work with is not having concentration.  Same thing with Ironskin.  It will actually cast when it meets the qualifier, but it will simply recast it again once it wears off, despite having a 30s - 60s cooldown.

 

I've actually been having more issues with the game now than when it was first released.  My game essentially never crashed at release, and it's been a crashfest with the more recent updates.  Some kind of bug in the temp folder would cause me to crash 100% of the time when exiting any given zone to another.   The only way I figured out how to get around this was to enter a different area than the one I originally intended, and then proceed to the original destination.  Very tedious.  I recently found a post here describing the same issue and the solution was to delete the Temp Obsidian folder each time this would happen, and that's so far been the "fix".  I've even uninstalled and redownloaded it, but it's something in the current build.

Edited January 20, 2019 by Sanctuary

[srulz]

Just to give an update & consolidate my thoughts before moving on, I've finally completed my full-AI PoTD playthrough, with the following party:

1. MC Helwalker/Devoted (Axe) - Clear Out + Swift Flurry with Amra is sweet, though No Quarter (the boot's ability) is the best. It's literally Charge + Heart of Fury.

2. Xoti Monk - Perma-Whispers due to special subclass.

3. Mirke Monk - Perma-Whispers due to Keeper of the Flame.

4. Eder Swashbuckler - mainly for pet slot & Persistent Distraction, though DPS is quite high. Slower than others though. Uses Scordeo's + Sun & Moon for max DPS.

5. Pallegina Herald - mainly for auras & summons & Shared Flames. DPS is the lowest. Uses Sasha's Singing Scimitar + Magran's Favor for speed aura & +Fire PLs.

6. Pets - both +5 Melee Acc  ones. Dual mortars are not used due to this.

So some comments:

1. The main reason why Whispers' damage is so high, other than the no-recovery of course, is the teleporting. A ranged DPS can be so much higher than a melee DPS simply because they don't incur DPS loss in walking around, so I guess that's why the current available ranged DPS is worst compared to melee DPS.

2. Pallegina's weapon summons are good, but could be so much better if you could program their AI scripts to spam their special attacks.

3. Sasha's Singing Scimitar is also the same - it's good, but unfortunately you cannot program the AI to auto-Empower stuff.

4. Swift Flurry's potential DPS is just so much higher compared to any other abilities in game - each proc is a 100% multiplicative buff to your damage, and it can repeat multiple times.

Overall, the team performs awesome. You literally just enjoy the fireworks all game long  anyway, for my next playthrough I'm going to use this team:

1. MC Helwalker/Barbarian (no sub) - Berserker's self damage is too high (35 Might + Helwalker's self amplify), and not worth it for the +2 Pen. Plus you also get Tenacious by other means. Plus you can just enable your mainhand sabre modal & spam full attacks (infinite Stunning Surges FTW) to get them for free. The only loss is +2 AR, which is negligible in a party, and +30% hit to crit, which doesn't really stack well with other sources. Will also use Instrument of Pain to minimize DPS loss mentioned earlier, and pair Scordeo's Edge + Stalker's Patience for maximum possible Swift Flurry + no-recovery procs. 

2-3. The 2 monks, of course.

4. Maia Scout - ranged DPS is ridiculously high, though pet's dying can be problematic. Currently testing scripts for her to take care of her pet immediately in case of dying, and test Play Dead if it's automatically used or not by pet. Currently using the Red Hand, but may change to the dual hand mortars once she's gotten the Concussive skill.

5. Still TBC, though I'm sticking with Pallegina Herald + dual hand mortars for now. Pallegina's racial bonus mean you can just perma-enable Powder Burns, and the Scion of Flame means you'll get a bit more Penetration & the Ring of Focused Flames to boost both Powdered Burns & Shared Flames. Shared Flames AOE is super small though, something like 2.5 metres base maybe.

Feel free to ask if you have any questions/ideas/suggestions.

[QuiteGoneJin]

On 1/19/2019 at 10:01 AM, TheMetaphysician said:

This is a cool idea. A couple of ideas:

 

- This seems tailor-made for playing with Magran's Challenge enabled, which disables pause. It seems like the key to beating Magran's Challenge is writing good AI routines.

 

- I highly recommend installing the "more AI" stuff mod that's available on Nexus. It gives you a lot more options for AI, and some are pretty important.

I've been thinking of a different mode/playthrough and this challange seems fun, Magrans Challange AI settings and all party members on auto and you only control yourself. Would feel like a very different game. Might do for second playthrough as I want to exp companion stories first, or maybe Ill edit the companions stats and classes (you can still do that with mods right?)

[srulz]

7 hours ago, QuiteGoneJin said:

I've been thinking of a different mode/playthrough and this challange seems fun, Magrans Challange AI settings and all party members on auto and you only control yourself. Would feel like a very different game. Might do for second playthrough as I want to exp companion stories first, or maybe Ill edit the companions stats and classes (you can still do that with mods right?)

Actually on my current playthrough with the 2nd party above, I've enabled the Magran's & Berath's Challenge (since I'll usually reload if a party member gone down anyway) and been having a blast. The only minor issue with Magran is when stealing stuff you can't just pause once you've reached the container, but have to click ASAP. Unfortunately, the major issue with Berath is that if a spare party member (the ones in reserve) got knockdown during ship boarding scenario, they will permanently die within a short time. So you have to play around that a bit, by really tanking your spare members up.

[P4wn]

On 7/7/2019 at 5:32 AM, srulz said:

Feel free to ask if you have any questions/ideas/suggestions.

Would you mind sharing your AI settings. I feel like I'm complete pants at getting my characters to not kill themselves

[srulz]

8 hours ago, P4wn said:

Would you mind sharing your AI settings. I feel like I'm complete pants at getting my characters to not kill themselves

Sure, what characters are you using, and what are you trying to do? Anyway, below thread is a great resource as well: