Need Advice Against The Messenger (Beast of Winter)

[Ælfwine]

The best I've been able to do against this enemy is getting him Bloodied, but his siphon always gets him back to Hurt, by which time my party is basically worthless. My physical attacks cannot do penetration so I cannot do damage fast enough to get past this point. How do I approach this beast?

Here is the party I'm using:

PC: Level 20 Paladin
Konstanten: Level 19 Barbarian
Tekehu: Level 18 Druid
Ydwin: Level 19 Cipher
Xoti: Level 19 Contemplative

I'm on Veteran difficulty.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Ensign]

That is a rough comp to do the messenger on.

 

Messenger is really a crash course in controlling concentration and interrupting big spells, and...you don't have access to a lot of that natively.

 

So you are looking for scrolls of insect swarm and scrolls of plague of insects to strip off concentration, and scrolls of thrust of tattered veils to interrupt his siphon. Ydwin can also contribute to interrupts with Mind Lance or Silent Scream; Konstanten should have interrupting blows but that will not be reliable.

 

Tekehu should have Rusted Armor; use that to penetrate and burst once the messenger is below half. You can find that on a scroll as well.

[Ælfwine]

That is a rough comp to do the messenger on.

 

Messenger is really a crash course in controlling concentration and interrupting big spells, and...you don't have access to a lot of that natively.

 

So you are looking for scrolls of insect swarm and scrolls of plague of insects to strip off concentration, and scrolls of thrust of tattered veils to interrupt his siphon. Ydwin can also contribute to interrupts with Mind Lance or Silent Scream; Konstanten should have interrupting blows but that will not be reliable.

 

Tekehu should have Rusted Armor; use that to penetrate and burst once the messenger is below half. You can find that on a scroll as well.

 

Thanks for the ideas. It may require me to respect a couple of these people. I'm swapping out Konstanten for Pallegina, who I've multiclassed as a Chanter/Paladin. I'm hoping that her summons can help distract a bit if nothing else. This is really the first point in the game where I've had to slow down combat and focus on tactics playing on Veteran, and I'm only in Act 2 of the main story. I've never even bothered to worry about interruptions and breaking concentration. Hopefully the other DLC don't drive me as crazy as this one. I've been trying to win this battle for 2 days, and I've never got the Messenger to Nearly Dead.

[Ælfwine]

I think I'm just going to quit this fight for now. I've spent about 6 hours trying to win it and I can't. I had half a dozen Insect Swarm and Plague of Insects scrolls and they all missed with less than a 30% chance of success. I got the Messenger down to Bloodied again and tried a Rusted Armor scroll, but the only person I have capable of casting that only had a 6% chance of success. And any time I do get his Concentration down he just gets it back again, meaning he can use his siphon without repercussion. And since every physical attack I do has at least a -25% Penetration I can't do any significant physical damage. Is there any way to tell what the icons for his pending attack represent and what the effects will be? Hovering over it doesn't do anything. This is almost enough to make me not even want to continue playing this game at this point, even though I already have ~200 hours in.

[DozingDragon]

Do you have the latest patch installed?  If so, are you aware that Veteran now increases enemy stats?  That could be another reason why things are more challenging than before.  Regardless, a very useful spell against the Messenger is Concelhaut's Crushing Doom.  That might give you the edge you need to get through this battle. Another option to interrupt: scrolls of Thrust of Tattered Veils, as that spell hits automatically.  The Crossbow and Arbalest modals also provide interrupts if that helps.  

[Ælfwine]

Do you have the latest patch installed?  If so, are you aware that Veteran now increases enemy stats?  That could be another reason why things are more challenging than before.  Regardless, a very useful spell against the Messenger is Concelhaut's Crushing Doom.  That might give you the edge you need to get through this battle. Another option to interrupt: scrolls of Thrust of Tattered Veils, as that spell hits automatically.  The Crossbow and Arbalest modals also provide interrupts if that helps.  

 

I didn't realize that the latest patch increased Veteran difficulty. I thought I was just running into an increased difficulty because it was DLC. I did take 5 Thrust of Tattered Veils scrolls into the fight, but my attempts to interrupt just keep getting negated by the Messenger's Concentration. And I'm not sure how his Concentration is increasing after I reduce it. Part of my current difficulty is that I'm just not sure how the mechanics for his behavior work. What determines your Accuracy when using a scroll? Is it based on your currently equipped weapon? I also don't see Concelhaut's Crushing Doom listed as an available spell for Aloth.

[DozingDragon]

Certain spells, abilities, or inspirations will generate concentration.  I don't recall off the top of my head what abilities the Messenger uses to do so, but you just have to get its concentration to 0 and try to interrupt it from gaining more concentration after that point.  

Your current weapon will generally not affect your accuracy with scrolls, but items like gauntlets of accuracy should.  Increasing your arcana skill should also boost the scroll's power level, which should make it easier to hit with.  

Concelhaut's Crushing Doom is a unique spell that is only found in the Ironclasped Grimoire, which can be looted off of Concelhaut.  Just equip that grimoire on Aloth and you should good to go.  

[Ælfwine]

I'll give Concelhaut's spell a try. I only have 2 level 7 spells, so I don't know how effective it will be. I didn't have much luck with the Thrust of Tattered Veils, though. The Messenger can get their spells off before my person can finish casting it from the scroll.

[DozingDragon]

IIRC, it only takes 2 arcana to use that scroll, maybe retrain one or two of your characters so you fire off a few at once.

[Ælfwine]

FINALLY! It took Aloth and his book of tricks, but I was able to move on! Thanks for the advice, guys. This was very frustrating.

Edited December 16, 2018 by Ælfwine

[Ensign]

For anyone else reading and attempting this, the 2nd PL chant Thick Tongues is a very important tool for this fight and several of the hardest fights in the expansions. It will attack concentration over and over, and when it hits it strips all concentration stacks. Very important for keeping targets vulnerable to interrupts.

 

Herald Pallegina is an ideal carrier for getting into the fray and stripping concentration from enemies in this way.

[Ophiuchus]

I'd also like to add that a Geomancer with Tranquilzer Shot and 2x Slicken can quickly tear down her defenses.

[Ælfwine]

It doesn't get any better once you get up on the ice ledge. Holy crap! These enemies are just devastating.

[Ensign]

Yes, the expansions do not mess around with combat difficulty. You can goof off with party compositions in the core game and succeed without too much difficulty (yes, even on PotD) but the expansions are a gut check to tighten up your comp, builds and tactics.

[lorddarkflare]

Yes, the expansions do not mess around with combat difficulty. You can goof off with party compositions in the core game and succeed without too much difficulty (yes, even on PotD) but the expansions are a gut check to tighten up your comp, builds and tactics.

 

Which is a damn shame because I JUST started using Ydwin for the expansions and it seems like she is a poor fit for most of the content.

[guildwriter]

Which is a damn shame because I JUST started using Ydwin for the expansions and it seems like she is a poor fit for most of the content.

 

I'd be curious to hear your reasoning on this as Cipher/Rogue is one of the better MC pairings in the game.

[bringingyouthefuture]

Was using Xoti Symbol of Eothas - used it a couple times, empower it if you must, it basically wipes out the spawning zombies and hits the Messenger for high damage ... use as much flame magic, flame prayer, really knocks him up.

 

A couple good fighters with knockdown combined with a rogue hitting with blind fight etc will get rid of its concentration ...

 

Not sure what else - use two-handed weapons for greater penetration - there is a Priest spell that gives a character added Penetration Champion's Boon.

 

The modal with the mace lowers armor rating / as well as the Saber (can't remember the name but you get it off the body in Poka Kahora) it lowers armor rating.  Use your modals, especially on sabers, swords, etc ...

 

Funny do you have scaling turned up?  I wonder with scaling turned up if the fight is harder than on say level 14?

 

Of course there was that bug in POE1 where whenever you reloaded the enemies stats kept going up ???? lol

 

Edit:  Would like to try Pallegina and Sacred Emulation on it, that would be pretty fun ...

 

Edit2:  Also noticed you can't get symbol of Eothas with Xoti as she is multi-classed, but flame magic really does a number to it, maybe Cleansing Flame or Pillar of Holy fire if you have it ... and some magic user spells like Ray of Fire

Edited December 18, 2018 by bringingyouthefuture