Ultimate Achievement: Rogue vs Cipher

[Guest Arjuna]

Hi all,

 

 

I am a returning player and finally decided to tackle the hardest achievements this game has to offer before moving to Deadfire.

 

 

I have seen Wodjee's Ultimate run with a rogue and found genuinely cool although I am more inclined of doing it with a cipher.

 

The builds I've found seem to be somewhat out-dated or not suitable for soloing let alone The Ultimate Achievement.

 

 

So my questions as of now are the following:

 

1) At the current actual state of the game is it easier to achieve Ultimate with a rogue or a cipher?

 

2) It'd be very interested in corresponding SOLO(!) TCS/Ultimate build guides.

 

 

post scriptum: I know there are maybe stronger classes (chanter, druid bla bla) but I want to have consistency with the char I am playing in Deadfire and a rogue or beguiler just seems way more piratey.

 

 

Thanks in advance for sharing your experiences and any offered advice

 

 

[Jaheiras Witness]

Cipher easier IMO - better defences (e.g. Psychovampiric Shield, Borrowed Instinct), can start fights with Whisper of Treason to redress the odds, and can do AoE damage rather than just single target.

 

Also has so many great talents, truly spoiled for choice.

 

Rogue still weakest class IMO. Good single target, can load up on damage talents, but no real crowd control and bad defences.

 

Fortitude defence is critically important for any Trial of Iron run, so don’t skimp on MIG and CON. High INT is a must for Cipher, Rogue can do without high INT (or even dump it to get better mileage out of wounding) and use points for other stats such as DEX or PER.

 

Sword and (small) shield is pretty standard for survivability, going all-out damage (e.g. dual wield) can get you into a lot of trouble if your DEF cannot handle enemy pressure.

[Guest Arjuna]

Cipher easier IMO - better defences 

 

Edit: Thank you for your insight ofc. 

 

 

Regarding better defences would it be worth it to choose Moon Godlike for the healing over my preferred wood elf?

 

From my understanding of watching Wodjee's rogue run on yt every single advantage matters but I can't stand the looks of the godlike races.

 

Secondly, is Whisper of Treason also that viable on PotD?

Edited August 5, 2018 by Arjuna

[Jaheiras Witness]

I prefer coastal aumaua (+20 vs stun and prone) as those afflictions (esp stun) are what can get you killed.

 

Moon Godlike is top 3 choice, it’s up to you whether you can handle looks and lack of helm.

 

Whisper of Treason is definitely viable, esp as you get +1 ACC per level as it is a spell and at only 10 focus you can cast it a lot.

[Jaheiras Witness]

You should also check out Victor Creed’s Youtube videos. He has a solo cipher run: it is not Trial of Iron (more Trial and Error!) but you can learn a lot of Cipher tactics, what works, equipment choices, spell choices etc

[Guest Arjuna]

I prefer coastal aumaua (+20 vs stun and prone) as those afflictions (esp stun) are what can get you killed.

 

Moon Godlike is top 3 choice, it’s up to you whether you can handle looks and lack of helm.

 

 

Interesting, i thought Wood Elf would be a decent pick because of the extra accuracy it provides so that I can open fights with a blunderbuss for focus gain but it seems that's maybe a little outdated, right?

 

Also I've read somewhere that they nerfed sabers into oblivion. It is really confusing for a returning player because while reading older posts it is nigh impossible for me to tell if the claims made there still stand to the current build of the game....

 

Thank you for pointing me to Victor Creed, I wasn't aware that he also did an Ultimate Run with Cipher, always thought he was more of a paladin expert guy...

Edited August 5, 2018 by Arjuna

[Jaheiras Witness]

Going for the initial focus blast with a gun is viable but then you have a recovery period where you can’t do much. You have to go safety first in Trial of Iron so starting with Whisper of Treason/Psychovampiric Shield and then looking to build focus without a long recovery period may be lower risk. You also need to be thnking about your talents - Quick Switch helps with the gun opening, but do you really want to invest in that if it means you miss out on a Whip/Backash talent?

 

Sabres are still fine, you have the extra base damage, lash, and the Cipher extras from Soul Whip/Biting Whip. And if you go for Bittercut you also have Spirit of Decay.

[Guest Arjuna]

Going for the initial focus blast with a gun is viable but then you have a recovery period where you can’t do much. You have to go safety first in Trial of Iron so starting with Whisper of Treason/Psychovampiric Shield and then looking to build focus without a long recovery period may be lower risk.

 

So picking up Greater Focus asap would be mandatory, right?

 

Sabres are still fine, you have the extra base damage, lash, and the Cipher extras from Soul Whip/Biting Whip. And if you go for Bittercut you also have Spirit of Decay.

 

Ok, I like that because I intend to transfer the char to Deadfire and fancy the pirate vibe the saber provides.

[Jaheiras Witness]

Greater Focus is crap in relation to everything else you can get.

 

From the general talents, the following are basically mandatory:

 

Veteran’s Recovery

Sword & Shield style

Superior Deflection

 

From the Cipher talents you almost certainly want:

 

Biting Whip

Draining Whip

Psychic Backlash

 

So you 2 more talents from a long list of goodies to pick from:

 

Brutal Backlash

Spirit of Decay

Bear’s Fortitude

Body Control

Apprentice Sneak Attack

 

Hard to fit Greater Focus anywhere

[fgalkin]

I guess you can get it early on and then respecc? +10 (IIRC?) starting focus is a pretty huge deal in the early game

[Boeroer]

It indeed is.

 

Distant Advantage (Wood Elf) works with ranged weapons as well as with ranged targeted spells - for example Whisper of Treason.

 

In my opinion Whisper of Treason is THE cipher power - no matter the difficulty. It has bonus accuracy, high range and a rel. fast cast. Even if it only grazes it takes out one enemy and uses him as bait for a great CC effect. It's like dropping a summon in every fight.

Edited August 5, 2018 by Boeroer

[Guest Arjuna]

In my opinion Whisper of Treason is THE cipher power - no matter the difficulty. It has bonus accuracy, high range and a rel. fast cast. Even if it only grazes it takes out one enemy and uses him as bait for a great CC effect. It's like dropping a summon in every fight.

 

Yes that is exactly what I have in mind but ofc I'll still abuse the figurines.

 

I guess you can get it early on and then respecc? +10 (IIRC?) starting focus is a pretty huge deal in the early game

 

That's an excellent idea. I always forget about the respec possibility.

 

____

 

Ok, so now I am set on Wood Elf and using ranged weaponry while using summons and charmed enemies as "tanks".

 

I understand that there are strong arguments for using bows but I would very much prefer wielding a gun. Not sure if this is viable...

 

I wonder if it is still possible at all to pull off the Ultimate with this obviously sub-optimal set-up due to my longing for at least light RPing and character consistency/immersion (I plan to turn her into a Trickster/Beguiler in Deadfire)... 

[dreamrider]

The Obsidian Boards' Build List - Last modified: 25-Feb-17

 

 

This pinned thread has a list and links to all the most current builds, including authors/others evals of suitability for solo, and whether the build has been tested for solo.

[Guest Arjuna]

The Obsidian Boards' Build List - Last modified: 25-Feb-17

 

 

This pinned thread has a list and links to all the most current builds, including authors/others evals of suitability for solo, and whether the build has been tested for solo.

 

 

Yes, I am very well aware of that thread and if you take a look at it you find zero TCS, let alone Ultimate, builds for gun ciphers. 

 

Regarding the majority of the builds for all classes there it reads "solo: untested", so I don't know how you pointing me to this would be of any help, but thank you anyways, I guess...

Edited August 6, 2018 by Arjuna

[dreamrider]

Try this.

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/75905-ultimate-build-highest-dps-and-tankines-in-1-char/

 

It is old, but there is a lot of good cipher stuff in there. 

It isn't specifically gun focused, but a gun works, especially for the veil piercing.

[Jaheiras Witness]

Not sure a DEX 3, PER 3, dual wield retaliation build works for Trial of Iron

[Boeroer]

No, because two things have changed since that build went public:

 

- retaliation doesn't generate focus anymore

- retaliation now does a hit roll (used to be auto-hit). So 3 PER is bad

 

Before that the synergy was pretty hilarious.