[Roleplay Build] "The Company Man" Mindstalker (Ranged Streetfighter/Ascendant) for PotD (NOT A SOLO BUILD). Warning, LOTS OF READING

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Hey guys, 

 

So after talking to a bunch of folks, stressing out over super low accuracy at the beginning of the game, and ultimately buckling down, I'd like to present to you my completed, for the moment, Mindstalker build. I'd also like to share a few observations from my initial testing, and my journey to get to this point. 

 

First and foremost, the first few levels SUCK because of the -10 Accuracy malus from Blunderbuss, plus the -5 Accuracy you're putting yourself under to use Powder Burns in order to properly make use of the Streetfighter's Recovery reduction and bonus Sneak Attack damage at range. This improves with Cipher Powers, party composition, and better quality equipment though. A carefully maintained party that's able to strip away at an enemy's defenses with weapon modals to allow the Cipher to land most of their important debuffing powers is essential for this build to operate well. 

 

Damage vs CC This is another really tricky debate. Cipher has some pretty awesome 'sounding' damage dealing powers (Disintegrate, anyone?) that can be fired off very quickly with the Streetfighter Recovery reduction, but some very crucial crowd control powers as well (Ringleader, Mental Binding, Secret Horrors), many of which help the Streetfighter to set up Sneak Attack and, later on, Deathblows. A lot of these powers target Will as well, which is usually on the lower side for certain enemies. Right now, I'm still unsure about whether to play the Cipher side of this build as damage or CC focused, so I've included two variants of the stat block and abilities, and would welcome input in the comments. 

 

Now on to the actual build. 

 

Blessings: +2 Attributes/+2 Skills/5000 Starting Cash/Either Fine Equipment (For some extra armor for your Fighters) or Unique Item Vendor (For early access to several solid pieces of gear for this build)

 

Race: Human (My personal choice, for customization). Aumaua would work better, perhaps, for a pro-Rauatai (Coastal) or pro-Huana (Island) character, but I just... really don't like their customization.

 

Culture: Rauatai/Aristocrat (Aristocrat for the bonuses to all talking skills, plus plenty of dialogue options. As for how I justify playing a human Aristocrat in a society dominated by Coastal Aumaua? I don't, really. Meritocracy? Generations of loyal service to the ranga nuis paying off? Something like that. 

 

Skill Focus: Stealth and Mechanics/Insight and Bluff. I'm still kind of working this out. Part of me wants to stick with Explosives and Stealth as my active skills, or maybe Stealth and Sleight of Hand (For the Marksman's Ring, though I don't think you need too much SoH to pickpocket that). Athletics would be another good option (Shame Rogue doesn't start with it) for Second Wind and passing certain Watcher-only checks. I also want to make sure to get Intimidate and Diplomacy rather high on my Watcher too. 

 

Party Comp: I'm a bit sad that I'll miss out on a lot of party companions, but honestly I'm not as fond of them in this game as I was in the first, which is really a shame. 

 

- Eder (Swashbuckler) MT with a Club/Shield: Eder will be built with engagements and Persistent Distraction in mind, using the club modal to lower enemies' Will as well as apply stacks of damage vulnerability on them with the Shards of Woedica. I'll have him focus on Athletics/Insight and Survival. 

 

- Herald tank: I wanted to take Rekke, but losing out on Paladin buffs is too bad. Herald also offers summons for additional targets for enemies to distract themselves with. The Herald will use a Morningstar for Body Blows in order to reduce Fortitude. I'd dump Might and bump up Resolve and Perception. That said, can you take Pallegina with you as a pro-Rauatai Watcher? I can't imagine you'd get very far, especially since you can't romance her. 

 

- Xoti (Priest): Healer, 'natch. The Herald can heal a little bit, too. 

 

- Maia (Ranger, or Scout): Additional ranged artillery. Has the Gun Hawk special class, and is the only 100% pro-Rauatai companion. 

 

Serafen, Aloth, Pallegina, and Tekehu will all be recruited and used in their personal quests. I will also recruit every Sidekick. 

 

Stats: 

 

Might: 20 (15 Base +1 Human +1 GotM +2 Berath's Blessing +1 Permanent Stat Boost) 

Con: 10 (6 +1 Rauatai +1 Effigy's Resentment (Durance) +2 Berath's Blessing)

Dexterity: 18 (15 Base +2 Berath's Blessing +1 Chameleon's Touch) 

Perception: 21 (18 Base +2 Berath's Blessing +1 Chameleon's Touch)

Intellect: 20 (18 Base +2 Berath's Blessing)

Resolve: 6 (3 Base +2 Berath's Blessing +1 Human) 

 

Abilities... 

 

Level 1 - Crippling Strike/Tenuous Grasp
Level 2 - Escape
Level 3 - Lingering Echoes
Level 4 - Blinding Strike/Draining Whip
Level 5 - Mental Binding
Level 6 - Dirty Fighting
Level 7 - Secret Horrors/Confounding Blind
Level 8 - Hammering Thoughts
Level 9 - Puppet Master
Level 10 - Two-Weapon Style/Shadowing Beyond
Level 11 - Bear's Fortitude
Level 12 - Finishing Blow
Level 13 - Arterial Strike/Borrowed Instinct
Level 14 - Rapid Casting
Level 15 - Tough
Level 16 - Ringleader/Devastating Blow
Level 17 - The Empty Soul
Level 18 - Disintegration*
Level 19 - Ancestor's Honor/Deathblows
Level 20 - Echoing Horror

 

* Yes, Disintegration is in both primarily because I can't think of something better. 

 

Equipment: This part's easy - the equipment is consistent throughout

 

Weapons: The Kitchen Stove(MH)/Scordeo's Trophy (OH) - The Kitchen Stove, upgraded, gives you a per encounter AoE attack that can generate enough Focus for you to immediately Ascend. Scordeo's Trophy with the Modal equipped gives 50% reload time with -15 Ranged Accuracy. Unfortunately the PoE wiki is a little sparse on what its enchantments do. Can someone fill me in? You can also use Thundercrack Pistol in your other weapon slot for Storm Rune shot for a quick Focus boost. 

 

Pet: Cutthroat Cosmo for the recovery reduction and party-wide effect of 5% bonus damage with guns. Every little bit helps. 

 

Armor: Miscreant's Leathers is my personal pick for the 5% chance to just ignore an attack. Furthermore, when used with Cutthroat Cosmo, it just... doesn't have a Recovery penalty. Plus it looks stylish, and Blow the Man Down is easily my favorite quest for all of the ways you can solve it. I'm definitely open to other suggestions though. Maia's armor seems like it'd be good for the 20% hit to crit on dodging a ranged attack, but that requires... dodging a ranged attack. Plus it's a % chance to happen, not a guarantee. 

 

Helm: Acina's Tricorn is why this build doesn't work with Godlikes unfortunately, as well as why Miscreant's Leathers is my favorite piece of gear to go with it for style points. Get it, love it. 

 

Rings: Chameleon's Touch and Ring of the Marksman. Chameleon's Touch can be acquired on Neketaka (Though the bounty to get it can be pretty rough) as can Ring of the Marksman (Though this is VERY important, and I'm putting this here so I won't forget. You must pickpocket it off of the Rauatai Sailors as part of the Valera portion of the Family Feud quest. As a pro-Rauatai character, obviously I can't kill them. As for... why I decided to steal their ring? Well, they weren't using it, I guess). 

 

Cloak: Cloak of Greater Protection - It's like Giftbearer's Cloth for people who A: Don't need the extra weapon/quick item slot and B: Don't overindulge in History. 

 

Neck: Token of Faith (+2 Resolve) or Amulet of Greater Health (25 max Health) - Lots of not unique items here, but I can't really think of many good neck slot items I've come across. The amulet brings us to 273 HP. Cipher's Shackle could also work for the +Con and Dexterity Affliction resistance. 

 

Gloves: Bracers of Greater Deflection - They're bracers that deflect things. Both this and the Cloak are taken in the event that you might be hit eventually and that if you are, you probably want to make sure you're at least not crit and killed before you can teleport away. 

 

Belt: Belt of Eoten Constitution - Mostly so that your 10 Con becomes 12 Con. That adds an extra 21 HP. I'm not entirely sold on this one, so other Belt options would certainly be welcome. Maybe Gwyn's Bridal Garter for the added resistance to Dexterity Afflictions?

 

Boots: Boots of the Stone. If there are better boot options, please let me know. 

 

Areas of Focus for Comments are the points of the build that I'm still not entirely sure on. There aren't that many, thankfully! 

 

1. Party: Can I make a workable party comp with all story companions/sidekicks? Pallegina is the only Paladin option I have, but I feel like she'll fly the coop (Haha, bird pun) if I side with Rauatai. I'm pretty sure the "Go it alone" option is the only one where no one is guaranteed to jump ship. 

 

2. Skills. Thoughts on good actives to focus on now that Explosives and Drugs have both been nerfed (Or at least it seems to be that way, Alchemy doesn't seem to increase drug potency anymore). 

 

3. Abilities: I'll make a poll for this as well, but do you think I'd be better suited focusing the Cipher half of the build on CC and leaving damage dealing to the Rogue half, or should I consider a damage dealing focused Cipher AND Rogue? Also, are there any abilities I've left out of both builds that you'd consider important/any way to better arrange them? 

 

I had Strike -> Pierce the Bell in my old build, but I more or less replaced it for Blinding Strike/Confounding Blind and the upgrade to Crippling Strike. Confounding Blind, I've been told, is really good for a Blunderbuss build for rapidly stripping away Deflection. 

 

I apologize for how long-winded this is, and I know this little disclaimer here is only adding to it, but the fact that there are two builds here, essentially, is probably a huge contributing factor. Please take the time to at least address the particular topics I've highlighted in the "Areas of Focus" section. 

Edited July 19, 2018 by Cyrus_Blackfeather

[Haplok]

I'd think most people consider Arterial Strike the better upgrade to Crippling Strike. Particularly for a ranged character. Distracted is nice, but you also have Blinding Strike, potentially Eyestrike and a dozen other Perception debuffs. Meanwhile Arterial does good DOT to moving targets (like ones chasing your mindstalker).

Edited July 15, 2018 by Haplok

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

I'd think most people consider Arterial Strike the better upgrade to Crippling Strike. Particularly for a ranged character. Distracted is nice, but you also have Blinding Strike, potentially Eyestrike and a dozen other Perception debuffs. Meanwhile Arterial does good DOT to moving targets (like ones chasing your mindstalker).

 

Alright, I swapped it out for Arterial. I think most people recommend Debilitating for synergy with Deathblows - it's another way to set up Deathblows with one skill, especially if I don't go with Secret Horrors. 

[mant2si]

I didn't get point to use Streetfighter subclass. In fact you get only 50% to recovery speed and receive -1 ARMOR, -10 DEFLECTION, -10 REFLEX. -5 ACCURACY debuff and limit yourself to < 4 range

Any other rogue can use x2 pistol/rod full-attack to get max focus from 8m range

There a chance that you can cast x2 cipher spells, but then you skip rogue damage abilities.... Just pick Assasin, equip 2x pistols, generate focus from middle-range/invise attack, cast  Ectopsychic Echo, goto invise, cast Disintegration or Debuff

OR If you need  additional +3 PL, pick death godlike damage yourself before fight and start fight with other guy and then cast Disintegration with 1000DM

Edited July 15, 2018 by mant2si

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

I didn't get point to use Streetfighter subclass. In fact you get only 50% to recovery speed and receive -1 ARMOR, -10 DEFLECTION, -10 REFLEX. -5 ACCURACY debuff and limit yourself to < 4 range

 

Any other rogue can use x2 pistol/rod full-attack to get max focus from 8m range

 

There a chance that you can cast x2 cipher spells, but then you skip rogue damage abilities.... Just pick Assasinequip 2x pistols, generate focus from middle-range/invise attack, cast  Ectopsychic Echo, goto invise, cast Disintegration ... 

 

I guess that's true... Hmm. Assassin COULD be interesting, and it's definitely more thematically appropriate for the kind of character I'm going for. Plus it's not that hard to get Invisibility going, especially with Shadowing Beyond. Plus the bonuses to Penetration and Accuracy are really nice, and don't you attack faster while invisible/stealthed anyway? 

 

Also, build-wise, do you prefer the CC focused or damage focused build? Since I wouldn't be using a Blunderbuss, I'd lean toward Strike the Bell -> Pierce the Bell rather than Blinding Strike/Confounding Blind. 

Edited July 15, 2018 by Cyrus_Blackfeather

[mant2si]

Usually you don't want to combine CC and DPS in single character,  just pick only ring leader and cast it when needed, everything else you has from Assassin side, from Cipher you need only Borrowed Instinct/Disintegration/Buff with Brilliant Inspiration

CC is boring 

Edited July 15, 2018 by mant2si

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Usually you don't want to combine CC and DPS in single character,  just pick only ring leader and cast it when needed, everything else you has from Assassin side, from Cipher you need only Borrowed Instinct/Disintegration/Buff with Brilliant Inspiration

 

CC is boring 

 

Where do I get Brilliant? Hasn't that been... like, completely removed? 

 

Okay, so something like this...?

 

Level 1 - Crippling Strike/Eyestrike

Level 2 - Escape

Level 3 - Penetrating Visions

Level 4 - Two-Weapon Fighting/Draining Whip

Level 5 - Mind Blades 

Level 6 - Dirty Fighting

Level 7 - Secret Horrors/Strike the Bell

Level 8 - Hammering Thoughts

Level 9 - Arterial Strike

Level 10 - Silent Scream/Shadowing Beyond

Level 11 - Bear's Fortitude

Level 12 - Finishing Blow

Level 13 - Pierce the Bell/Borrowed Instinct

Level 14 - Rapid Casting 

Level 15 - Tough

Level 16 - Amplified Wave/Devastating Blow

Level 17 - The Empty Soul

Level 18 - Disintegration

Level 19 - Ancestor's Honor/Deathblows

Level 20 - Echoing Horror

 

Also, I went with a more Rogue focused variant, removing a lot of the damage dealing Cipher spells in favor of more Rogue abilities. 

 

Level 1 - Crippling Strike/Eyestrike

Level 2 - Escape

Level 3 - Penetrating Visions

Level 4 - Two-Weapon Fighting/Draining Whip

Level 5 - Smoke Veil  

Level 6 - Dirty Fighting

Level 7 - Hammering Thoughts/Strike the Bell

Level 8 - Blinding Strike

Level 9 - Arterial Strike

Level 10 - Bear's Fortitude/Shadowing Beyond

Level 11 - Confounding Blind

Level 12 - Finishing Blow

Level 13 - Pierce the Bell/Borrowed Instinct

Level 14 - Rapid Casting 

Level 15 - Tough

Level 16 - Ringleader/Devastating Blow

Level 17 - The Empty Soul

Level 18 - Disintegration

Level 19 - Ancestor's Honor/Deathblows

Level 20 - Echoing Horror

 

Anything you'd recommend changing? 

Edited July 15, 2018 by Cyrus_Blackfeather

[Haplok]

I didn't get point to use Streetfighter subclass. In fact you get only 50% to recovery speed and receive -1 ARMOR, -10 DEFLECTION, -10 REFLEX. -5 ACCURACY debuff and limit yourself to < 4 range

 

Any other rogue can use x2 pistol/rod full-attack to get max focus from 8m range

 

There a chance that you can cast x2 cipher spells, but then you skip rogue damage abilities.... Just pick Assasin, equip 2x pistols, generate focus from middle-range/invise attack, cast  Ectopsychic Echo, goto invise, cast Disintegration or Debuff

 

OR If you need  additional +3 PL, pick death godlike damage yourself before fight and start fight with other guy and then cast Disintegration with 1000DM

 

In fact it is much more then 50% action speed bonus due to the way this game handles math. More like 100%. So even under Blind 50% penalty, your still very fast. 

And what is that about limiting oneself to 4m range? Why?

 

I've tried both Assasin/Cipher and Streetfighter/Cipher. To me Assasin felt very weak and unefficient. You waste combat time trying to hide and loose precious Guile resource that could instead be used to directly deal MORE damage (seriously, a 1 Guile Full Attack of a Streetfighter does WAY more damage then a Backstab) and simultaniusly debuff enemies/apply a DOT. And then you loose the only boosted attack you had, because the enemy has moved away. Granted it might be better on a ranged character.

But still for me double speed and +50% damage bonus (AND still having Guile to deliver devastating FullAttacks with the bonuses, including Streetfighters added 50%) is >>>>> situational bonus 3/4 times per encounter (plus having no free Guile  for special attacks and being much less efficient in a party).

 

The only other Rogue subclass I'd consider would be the Trickster - for a more defence oriented playstyle.

 

Regarding the early Accuracy woes, the solution is simple. Don't use the Pistol modal and Switch from Blunderbuss to another weapon after activating Powder Burns. Eventually your buffs/debuffs on enemy will compensate. But no need to butcher your accuracy from the get go.

Edited July 16, 2018 by Haplok

[mant2si]

 

In fact it is much more then 50% action speed bonus due to the way this game handles math. More like 100%. So even under Blind 50% penalty, your still very fast. 

And what is that about limiting oneself to 4m range? Why?

 

I've tried both Assasin/Cipher and Streetfighter/Cipher. To me Assasin felt very weak and unefficient. You waste combat time trying to hide and loose precious Guile resource that could instead be used to directly deal MORE damage (seriously, a 1 Guile Full Attack of a Streetfighter does WAY more damage then a Backstab) and simultaniusly debuff enemies/apply a DOT. And then you loose the only boosted attack you had, because the enemy has moved away. Granted it might be better on a ranged character.

But still for me double speed and +50% damage bonus (AND still having Guile to deliver devastating FullAttacks with the bonuses, including Streetfighters added 50%) is >>>>> situational bonus 3/4 times per encounter (plus having no free Guile  for special attacks and being much less efficient in a party).

 

The only other Rogue subclass I'd consider would be the Trickster - for a more defence oriented playstyle.

 

Regarding the early Accuracy woes, the solution is simple. Don't use the Pistol modal and Switch from Blunderbuss to another weapon after activating Powder Burns. Eventually your buffs/debuffs on enemy will compensate. But no need to butcher your accuracy from the get go.

 

You need to use blunderbuss with < 4m range to get your bonus and then run away to increase range between you and enemies, or you need attack allied guys, that didn't sound as good roleplay options

 

> More like 100%

 

Check spell recovery time in tooltip, your recovery time in cloth armor will be halved, nothing  more

 

> a 1 Guile Full Attack of a Streetfighter does WAY more damage then a Backstab

 

You gain only 50% DM bonus

 

> To me Assasin felt very weak and unefficient. You waste combat time trying to hide and loose precious

 

... you waste combat time with cipher cc abilities

 

Assassin is about high DM from long range, disintegration, items abilities etc... 

 

> Guile resource that could instead be used to directly deal MORE damage 

 

You can always use potions of invise

[Haplok]

You need to use blunderbuss with < 4m range to get your bonus and then run away to increase range between you and enemies, or you need attack allied guys, that didn't sound as good roleplay options

> More like 100%

 

Check spell recovery time in tooltip, your recovery time in cloth armor will be halved, nothing  more

 

> a 1 Guile Full Attack of a Streetfighter does WAY more damage then a Backstab

 

You gain only 50% DM bonus

 

> To me Assasin felt very weak and unefficient. You waste combat time trying to hide and loose precious

 

... you waste combat time with cipher cc abilities

 

Assassin is about high DM from long range, disintegration, items abilities etc... 

 

> Guile resource that could instead be used to directly deal MORE damage 

 

You can always use potions of invise

 

Opening combat isn't the brightest idea when you're squishy anyway. If you wait a moment, some enemies will charge. After a Powder Burns you can switch to another weapon, with more range (and probably accuracy and penetration).

 

You're correct with the formal amount of the recovery reduction bonus. But when you compare it on the same scale as other speed boosts/maluses (Frenzy, Bloodlust, Swift Flurry, Blind malus) it functions like 100% (compared with their +25/20/15 or -33%).

 

Crippling Strike and the like do way more damage then a Backstab because they are Full Attacks (2 for the price of 1). That alone makes them more damaging. But on a Streetfighter they also get another 50% boost. They are significantly cheaper in both Guile and action time as well.

 

Cipher CC abilities help the Cipher and the whole party. Assassin wasting time and Guile playing hide & seek only needlessly prolongs the fight putting more strain on the rest of the party.

 

And I don't consider spamming invisibility potions a valid point of discussion. You can also spam spell scrolls and various other potions that will greatly help different aspects of your characters/strategies. But in principle they are a limited resource. You could spend a few during a boss fight or something. But personally I always hoard such resources and sit on them till the end of the game.

Edited July 16, 2018 by Haplok

[mant2si]

 

You need to use blunderbuss with < 4m range to get your bonus and then run away to increase range between you and enemies, or you need attack allied guys, that didn't sound as good roleplay options

> More like 100%

 

Check spell recovery time in tooltip, your recovery time in cloth armor will be halved, nothing  more

 

> a 1 Guile Full Attack of a Streetfighter does WAY more damage then a Backstab

 

You gain only 50% DM bonus

 

> To me Assasin felt very weak and unefficient. You waste combat time trying to hide and loose precious

 

... you waste combat time with cipher cc abilities

 

Assassin is about high DM from long range, disintegration, items abilities etc... 

 

> Guile resource that could instead be used to directly deal MORE damage 

 

You can always use potions of invise

 

Opening combat isn't the brightest idea when you're squishy anyway. If you wait a moment, some enemies will charge. After a Powder Burns you can switch to another weapon, with more range (and probably accuracy and penetration).

 

You're correct with the formal amount of the recovery reduction bonus. But when you compare it on the same scale as other speed boosts/maluses (Frenzy, Bloodlust, Swift Flurry, Blind malus) it functions like 100% (compared with their +25/20/15 or -33%).

 

Crippling Strike and the like do way more damage then a Backstab because they are Full Attacks (2 for the price of 1). That alone makes them more damaging. But on a Streetfighter they also get another 50% boost. They are significantly cheaper in both Guile and action time as well.

 

Cipher CC abilities help the Cipher and the whole party. Assassin wasting time and Guile playing hide & seek only needlessly prolongs the fight putting more strain on the rest of the party.

 

And I don't consider spamming invisibility potions a valid point of discussion. You can also spam spell scrolls and various other potions that will greatly help different aspects of your characters/strategies. But in principle they are a limited resource. You could spend a few during a boss fight or something. But personally I always hoard such resources and sit on them till the end of the game.

 

But as assassin, you can cast 800 - 1000DM disintegration after first attack from invise, you don't need even wait for enemies around you

 

> You're correct with the formal amount of the recovery reduction bonus. But when you compare it on the same scale as other speed boosts/maluses (Frenzy, Bloodlust, Swift Flurry, Blind malus) it functions like 100% (compared with their +25/20/15 or -33%).

 

So we compare something like 60% and 30% ? I prefer 30% but without debuff

 

> Cipher CC abilities help the Cipher and the whole party. Assassin wasting time and Guile playing hide & seek only needlessly prolongs the fight putting more strain on the rest of the party.

I didn't get why do you need hide & seek at all with range weapon ? 

 

> Crippling Strike and the like do way more damage then a Backstab because they are Full Attacks (2 for the price of 1). That alone makes them more damaging. But on a Streetfighter they also get another 50% boost. They are significantly cheaper in both Guile and action time as well.

 

There a difference between our suggestions, you offered to play as DPS rogue and sometimes use ciphers powers, I offered to use cipher DPS with assassin invisibility

Edited July 16, 2018 by mant2si

[Haplok]

Fair enough. But Disintegration is level 16 on a MC character. That's almost end game. Before that you could get some substitutes like Soul Ignition, but they could feel inferior to what you could be doing as a rogue instead (I was not impressed by Soul Ignition, even with the ring, I much prefer Ectopsychic Echo, though they serve different purposes of course).

Edited July 16, 2018 by Haplok

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Hmm. I'm just really, really, torn up here. There seems to be several solid ways to build this multiclass, compared to others where it's pretty much just been "Pick these couple of skills and win." 

 

So far, I have...

 

- Streetfighter with CC Cipher spells

 

- Streetfighter with damaging Cipher spells

 

- Dual Pistol/Arquebus Assassin with damaging Cipher spells

 

- Dual Pistol/Arquebus Assassin with CC Cipher spells. 

 

Each one seems fun in a lot of different ways, but also has its own share of drawbacks. 

 

For the Streetfighter, while it's easy enough to get and keep the bonus on a ranged character, the most efficient way to do so comes at the cost of -5 Accuracy. Admittedly, early on this can be mitigated somewhat by just one-handing a Blunderbuss to set it up and then swapping to dual pistols for full attacks, but the point is - especially when dual-wielding a Blunderbuss with another weapon - you'll always be -5 Accuracy down from where you 'could' have been. +1 Accuracy from a Legendary weapon instead of +6. 

 

For the Assassin, the biggest issue is having to use Arquebus to open combat and then swap to dual pistols because dual wielding Full Attacks break Stealth on the first attack (Which I assume gets the bonus) and thus you're not getting the most efficient use out of the extra accuracy and penetration. There's also the 15% extra damage taken, but that's kind of irrelevant on a ranged character with a good party setup. Yes, you could use invisibility potions, but that still means you'd have to use one, swap to your Arquebus, take a shot, and then swap back to pistols. 

 

There's also, of course, the issue of how to take abilities as well... This remains the biggest point of contention about this whole build for me. Do I want to stock up on mostly Rogue powers for dealing damage and only take a few key Cipher abilities, or try to strike more of a balance? Is there anything a Cipher can do that a Rogue can't do better? 

 

Or, alternatively, should I bother with Cipher at all and just switch to my second choice - Harbinger? Would Chanter offer more synergy with Rogue than Cipher does? 

[Haplok]

It won't really help but... CC and damage powers are not exclusive... I'd probably pick a mix of both.

Well, maybe I wouldn't on a Streetfighter. He's very strong, which makes a lot of the damage powers doubtful. Still I'd get some staples like Ectopsychic Echo, Disintegrate and Amplified Wave. If going Ascendant, maybe also Mind Lance. Should be fun to spam that with Streetfighter speed.

 

My advice is to get a taste yourself. Play each for a bit and see which one you like more.

 

 

So far I rather enjoy a third option: a ranged Helwalker/Ascendant. Was a bit rough early on, but now he's getting better. And he's just starting. All the monk stat bonuses supercharge the Cipher spells and he doesn't need to go though those hops/immersion breakers like a Streetfighter or Assasin.

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

It won't really help but... CC and damage powers are not exclusive... I'd probably pick a mix of both.

Well, maybe I wouldn't on a Streetfighter. He's very strong, which makes a lot of the damage powers doubtful. Still I'd get some staples like Ectopsychic Echo, Disintegrate and Amplified Wave. If going Ascendant, maybe also Mind Lance. Should be fun to spam that with Streetfighter speed.

 

My advice is to get a taste yourself. Play each for a bit and see which one you like more.

 

 

So far I rather enjoy a third option: a ranged Helwalker/Ascendant. Was a bit rough early on, but now he's getting better. And he's just starting. All the monk stat bonuses supercharge the Cipher spells and he doesn't need to go though those hops/immersion breakers like a Streetfighter or Assasin.

 

I've considered playing a Helwalker/Ascendant, actually. You lose out on a lot of good Rogue powers though, but instead you get access to things like Stunning Surge, which are very nice to have. Plus, a 20% Burn lash on Max Wounds with Turning Wheel, and easy access to max Might on longer fights. 

 

Other things you lose out on from the Rogue:

 

- 80%/100% weapon damage boost with Deathblows (But that's not until max level, when you should have plenty of damage boosts anyway)

- Escape -> Shadowing Beyond as a get out of melee free option. 

 

Plus, there's less of a "Rotation" with Monk abilities vs Rogue abilities - with the Rogue, I need to ensure every enemy is Sneak Attack vulnerable before I hit it, where the Monk can focus more on just smashing things with its mind. FURTHERMORE, I get access to The Long Pain/Instruments of Pain so I can have Ranged Melee as an option if I want. 

 

As far as damage vs CC goes, yeah - I was definitely planning to take Ectopsychic, Amp. Wave, and Disintegrate in either case simply because they are pretty good. 

 

Hmm. I actually kind of like the idea of that third option, now that you mention it. Sure, the first few levels are going to hurt quite a bit, but I can avoid most of the combat through dialogue so it shouldn't be too much of a problem. 

 

You hit the nail on the head, though. Jumping through hoops and breaking immersion are really the biggest downsides of either of the Rogue multiclass options at range. For the kind of character I'm wanting to play, he's much more of a cold, calculating killer than a brute who overloads his gun for the sake of an adrenaline high and extra "damage." 

[Verde]

What about straight Assassin or Scout? I mean Ranger is begggging to be multi'd with Rogue. Or you could be a variant of the Swashbuckler.

 

Don't worry about Sneak Attack. It's super easy to afflict in this game. Plus you get Deathblows later for insane damage.

Edited July 17, 2018 by Verde

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

What about straight Assassin or Scout? I mean Ranger is begggging to be multi'd with Rogue. Or you could be a variant of the Swashbuckler.

 

Don't worry about Sneak Attack. It's super easy to afflict in this game. Plus you get Deathblows later for insane damage.

 

Scout is fun, sure, I could do Ghost Heart and not have to worry about managing the pet. I just wonder if I'll be able to stand up to Maia with her unique subclass. 

[lameover]

I love your builds, Cyrus_Blackfeather

Don't stop making them!

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

I love your builds, Cyrus_Blackfeather

Don't stop making them!

 

Aww, thanks! Once I finish with this one, I'm going to be considering a few options for a pro-Principi character or a pro-Vallian character. Don't worry, they won't be X/Monk. 

[5k1nFl1nt]

Excellent to find this thread - I'm starting my I think 7th Potd character tomorrow and am right where you are in my decision making - spookily so.

I've played scout almost through the whole game, and ended feeling that ranger (ghost heart) didn't bring a whole lot to the table Imho it's a weakish choice for ranged multi.

Have you considered Fighter-Devoted/Ascendant? Nice full attacks, remove all squish

Edited July 19, 2018 by 5k1nFl1nt

[lameover]

to OP

why you even use Blinding Strike  ? You've a good 1lvl Cipher blinding spell.

Yep, i'd say to choose it than Whispers of Treason, cause they are OP.

Rogue's Blinding Strike with Cipher is no go IMHO.

 

Don't apoligize, it's a well-done build, i really appreciate your work!

 

 

if you play with party there are much better CC guys\gurls who can save your (and party's) arse.

if you play DUO PoTD - Rogue\Cipher could be viable CC.

Edited July 19, 2018 by lameover