+1 Pen/AC for enemies in Veteran

[EzekielMoerdyk]

Since PotD enemies get +2 PEN and +2 AC on top of reworked encounters, I was hoping we could get the same (but at a reduced effect) for Veteran. While the reworked encounters in Veteran are quite a bit better than what they used to be, it feels as if the modals on weapons, pen- or AC-increasing abilities and other pen-AC related mechanics are a bit useless in Veteran. 

 

I would recommend either a game-wide +1Pen & +1 AC buff for enemies in Veteran, or otherwise a selection of +1/+2 AC or +1/+2 PEN for some enemies.

 

I think a good niche for Veteran in the game is as the difficulty level where most mechanics in the game needs to be exploited (including Pen/AC system, but also consumables, empower, etc.) but without absolute min/maxing, meta-gaming, cheesing or unforgiving character building required - all of these latter aspects I feel fit in nicely with the (eventual) difficulty level of PotD.

 

While Veteran has definitely increased in difficulty in the beta relative to release (specifically in the early game - hoping the devs will continue the trend for the later game), and it is definitely necessary to employ better tactics, consumables, resting bonuses and whatnot, the AC/PEN system feels mostly forgettable except for specific high-AC enemies.

[Insolentius]

This should be really easy to mod in. Just change the values in...

 

"Difficulty": "Hard",
       "HealthMultiplier": 1,
       "AccuracyBonus": 0,
       "DefenseBonus": 0,
       "ArmorBonus": 0,
       "PenetrationBonus": 0,
       "LevelMultiplier": 1,
       "RecoveryTimeMultiplier": 1,
       "DisengagementAccuracyBonus": 0,
       "HostileEffectDurationMultiplier": 1

[Cdiaz]

Insolentius with the great mod assist, thank you!

 

But I'll definitely get this in to see if we can get this implemented for Veteran difficulty. Gracias for the post!

 

Best,

 

-Caleb

[Harlath]

Isn't this a fairly major change that should be optional? I always enjoyed the Veteran difficulty in PoE 1 and 2 for having standard mechanics but more difficult encounters.

[EzekielMoerdyk]

Thanks Insolentius and Cdiaz, will give it a shot and see how it plays.

Harlath, I agree witb you on perspective of veteran difficulty, but I honestly think that the AC/pen normal values are too low, hence the mechanic in Normal and Veteran only plays a role for very specific encounters and allows for wearing lighter armour on frontliners. Ill see whether modding gives a player something to worry about every so often without reducing most encounters to "stacking pen and ac" as it was during the first backer beta.

Otherwise, it becomes mostly unnecessary to worry about high pen abilities, modals and weapon choices - a core game mechanic which should be prevalent in Veteran. The alternative, of course, would be to buff pen and ac values in normal mode (so that Veteran plays as normal but with difficult encounters) but then that leads to a whole new round of balancing Veteran and PotD.

Edited June 6, 2018 by EzekielMoerdyk

[EzekielMoerdyk]

So I played around with this a bit, and I was surprised to see how much of a difference is +1 AC on enemies. I tried two different fights, one in the starter island and one in Neketaka. I only added +1 Pen and +1 AC on enemies, and didn't include any other PotD modifications (i.e. + accuracy, + defense and + HP)

 

From my previous playthrough, as well as the [unmodded] 1.1 beta, I had the feeling that on Veteran your default penetration (whatever weapon/spell/ability) is on par with most enemies' AC, even in most cases increased AC for specific damage types. Weaknesses (e.g. to slash, shock) in the enemy's AC could be exploited, giving a reason to switch weapons to get overpen bonus, and immunities (or absurdly high AC to a specific damage type) needs to be taken into account. However, for most fights, it was not necessary to switch weapons/tactics often enough to win fights. It only felt meaningful for very armoured enemies (such as constructs or Xaurip champions).

 

Using only +1 AC mod on enemies, the balance between player Pen and enemy AC shifted just enough to be meaningful. While underpen isn't as terrible (most cases it was only 1 under, for -25% dmg), it made me switch weapons and abilities more often, or pick targets more carefully. However, it isn't as big an effect as to ensure that each character has a way of stacking pen or absolutely require per encounter AC debuffs. Just enough to be tactically meaningful without requiring specific builds.

 

From the little that I've played in PotD in 1.1, the +2 AC on enemies seem much more drastic, requiring more dedicated resources to deal with most enemies and is opposite of what some players (such as myself) wants in terms of difficulty.

 

+1 Pen on enemies is easier to forget about, but in one fight I had to reload and give my non-tank bruiser some higher AC armour to survive - which felt quite rewarding. While I don't think the +1 Pen is enough of an effect to warrant maxing AC (including with consumables or abilities), like the +1 AC on enemies, I felt it added a little bit more complexity to the combat. In addition, the two difficult encounters on the starter isle (which requires cheesing on Potd) was still doable with default party on Veteran but definitely more dangerous with +1 Pen.

 

Therefore, I strongly recommend the +1 AC and +1 Pen for Veteran, if only to ensure that the Pen/AC system isn't ignored in Veteran.

[Harlath]

I'm personally not a fan of +1AR/+1 Penetration for enemies on Veteran, as it changes the symmetry of mechanics that applied to me in Veteran: both enemies and the player are playing by the same rules. Indeed, this is generally a point Obsidian have made in both Pillars 1 and Pillars 2, noting that it is only PotD that alters opposing stats.

 

That said, I'm glad it is an easy switch with mods for those that it appeals to even if I take the opposite side and counsel against this change being the default on Veteran.