Sorcerer (Wizard/Druid) VS Wizard

[Wiegraf Folles]

So, how does sorcerer fare against wizard in the control/nuke department,? Specifically, I am looking at the mid (8-12) and later levels (16- onward). At levels 9-12, the sorcerer will be missing out one key spell that makes wizards shine during this part of the game: Ryngrim's Enervating Terror.  On the other hand, you will be gaining 2 extra casts per spell level (up to level 4) from druid's class, that includes some nice buff/healing spells, Returning Storm , Overwhelming Wave and Calling the World's Maw, besides the AoE damage spells from level 1 and 2. It seems a somewhat decent trade off.

 

What worries me are the later spells (from 16 onward). I never reached that level yet on the game. However, it is clear you will be missing what seems to be some godly spells from tier 8 and tier 9, which doesn't seem to have any remotely close match in terms of Damage in the wide assortment of Druids spells between levels 5-7. I wonder if the additonal 2 spell casts per level of druid spells would somewhat offset that loss. From some simple calculations, 4 wizard spells spreading level 8/9 could deal 400 AoE damage. On the other hand, if you unleash  some of the most damaging 14 druid spells you would have access to, spreading levels 1-7, you could possibly deal 500 AoE damage + 180 Single target damage, which could make a sorcerer somewhat superior in a more drawn out, difficult combat (which is actually what matters), if penetration is not a problem.

 

I have no doubt that the sorcerer is very good if we consider him a support/control spellcaster, due to the wide assortment of control, buffs and healing (better than a priest or druid, imo). However, how would it fare against a wizard in the late game control/damage department? Has someone actually played with both to be able to give some insight?

Edited May 30, 2018 by Wiegraf Folles

[Crumbleton]

 

 

https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Amira%27s_Wing

 

This weapon right here would be perfect for the build, gives you per encounter high level druid and wizard abilities and would actually probably make the class work pretty well. With chill fog and the druid storm abilities, and wilting winds and tornado granted from this item you'd have a super great control and some really cool character flavor. I think I'm actually stealing this idea and doing it today thanks!

[evilcat]

I had Sorcerer main and reach lv 20, veteran. It is blast to play. And the effectivness of relentless storm will shock you.

Sunbeam and Blizzard are other spells to your arsenal.

You could obtain Terror with WhiteWich Mask.

 

However: As fun as it is from level 7+ when spells just start to pilling up, at very end game you have too many spells. The limit is how many spells you can throw out in first 60 sec of combat. From CC perspective pure wizard could be better. For the very hard fights there is also empowerment refill.

[SamOftheUels]

I'm assuming Fury druid? How does this work with Grimoires, don't think you can cast spells from Grims while in Fury - which makes things seem super awks

[Wiegraf Folles]

I believe Fury bonus only works with druid "elemental" spells. Wizard spells are of other category (mainly evocation and conjuration for damage). Regarding Amira's Blessing, is it cast per encounter or per rest (though, considering you can rest anywhere, I suppose it is a moot point)? Even if you have Amira's blessing, it won't change the fact that a wizard could cast 3 wilting winds instead of 2, and if you have that grimoire that gives one additional cast for each spell level, you get the opportunity to unleash 4 wilting winds as a wizard (5 if you empower), vs 1 as a sorcerer. Sorcerer is probably the best support/control/damage hybrid spellcaster there is, but I am wondering how much it would suffer in the damage department against a full wizard. Maybe it is worth it: consider that Wilting wind can deal 117 AoE damage per cast if you have +3 power levels over the spell and 20% damage bonus from might, vs  78 AoE damage per cast from from Hails Storm (assuming 1.0 penetration) under the same conditions (+5 power levels+20% might damage), perhaps the sorcerer won't suffer that much.

 

 

I had Sorcerer main and reach lv 20, veteran. It is blast to play. And the effectivness of relentless storm will shock you.

Sunbeam and Blizzard are other spells to your arsenal.

You could obtain Terror with WhiteWich Mask.

 

However: As fun as it is from level 7+ when spells just start to pilling up, at very end game you have too many spells. The limit is how many spells you can throw out in first 60 sec of combat. From CC perspective pure wizard could be better. For the very hard fights there is also empowerment refill.

 

Why would pure wizard be better at CC? The only really relevant CCs that I see from spell levels 8 and 9 are Caedebald's Blackbow, Petrification and  Cloak of Death, none of them which seems much better than Relentless storm, Embrace of the Earth Talon and Overwhelming Wave.

 

If 60 seconds is the average time for a typical endgame encounter, then you could reliably throw around 10 spells. A nuking wizard could throw 2 spells of each level from 5 to 9. A sorcerer would probably nuke with 6 spells from level 5 to 7 on the wizard's side and 4 spells from level 4 and 5 on the druid side (since VI and VII levels of druid spells don't come with relevant AoE damage-dealing/CC spells). It is indeed a significant downgrade from wizard to sorcerer at later levels, it seems.

[evilcat]

When you wildshape you loose access to grimoire and other equipment. YOu could cast learned spells.

Also Fury main attack does not scale with levels, which is probably bug.

 

Druid tier VI-VII are not that great for cc. And both Earth Talon and Relentless Storm are same level.

So i mostly gained 1-4 level druid spells which have some nice spells, and feels great to spam them but they are not game changer.

 

Wizard/Lifegiver isinteresting combo, since you could pull out some good healing as well.

Edited May 31, 2018 by evilcat

[Wiegraf Folles]

When you wildshape you loose access to grimoire and other equipment. YOu could cast learned spells.

Also Fury main attack does not scale with levels, which is probably bug.

 

Druid tier VI-VII are not that great for cc. And both Earth Talon and Relentless Storm are same level.

So i mostly gained 1-4 level druid spells which have some nice spells, and feels great to spam them but they are not game changer.

 

Wizard/Lifegiver isinteresting combo, since you could pull out some good healing as well.

 

Why would you want to wildshape? Does it improve your spellcasting in some way? Druid VI and VII spells are neither good for CC nor damage, it seems (they all seem crap, for their level). Wizard's Level 8 and 9 CC spells don't seem that impressive, if you compare with what you can get with lower level Druid spells. On the other hand, wilting wind and meteor shower do seem like gamechanging spells. It is also important to consider that the base powerlevel of a wizard is higher than a sorcerer.

 

Wizard/Lifegiver is a solid choice, IMO. Life giver is probably better than Fury for the sorcerer, and the Wizard/Lifegiver combo is the most versatile spellcaster in the game. But if healing is secondary, I wonder if going sorcerer instead of full wizard is a good choice. WIth some simple calculations, I can estimate the 60s of spell unleashing would make a wizard deal at most 1350 damage (not considering Wall of Many Colors), while a sorcerer could do at most 1190 damage under the same conditions. It seems reasonable to assume that you won't be losing that much DPS as a sorcerer. In terms of CC, they seem to be at the same level.

 

By the way, how does the Major Grimoire Imprint works? After stealing a spell, can I cast it infinitely many times in combat? Can I cast on an ally?

[Phyriel]

Im very curious about formula for those damage calculations u've made when I just nuked fire dragon for 1900 damage with empowered missile salvo alone;) 

[Wiegraf Folles]

Im very curious about formula for those damage calculations u've made when I just nuked fire dragon for 1900 damage with empowered missile salvo alone;) 

I get the maximum damage of some the spell, and multiply by (1+(Power Level-Spell level)*0.1+0.2 (from MIGHT)). I select the most damaging AoE spells from their respective spell levels and sum the damage of all of them.