Cantousent

Sorry, Dread one, I don't have an answer for you. You would think that it would have come out at the same time, but I could only speculate on that. Good luck, man! As far the wee pup:

hehehe I was going to say that you can't be 'exactly similar,' but *ahem* I don't want to muddy the waters. Obviously, I don't want combat XP, but I agree with... rjshae or whoever up above mentioned that these arguments have been rehashed over and over again. My guess is that they don't have combat XP, but they'll make the XP gains more granular, flesh out a few different ways to gain XP on top of quests, and of course the bestiary compromise. Fair enough for me.

Okay, L, you've convinced me! I can probably get it on good old games, so I'll play it sometime before the end of the year. Just need to get a chance to finish off the last of bit of Wasteland 2, then I'm all in at Betrayal at Krondor. Actually, we should have a thread to suggest GoG titles for youngsters and even oldsters like me who might have been busy serving overseas for a chunk of the late '80s/early '90s.

I've only played one Leisure Suit Larry title. Even worse, I've never played Betrayal at Krondor. :Cant's hiding icon:

Yep, that's the way to make a compelling case, DT. See, we religious nuts can use sarcasm also. Some of us are even advanced enough to read things on the interwebs. I actually wasn't talking to you directly. I'd read the exchange some pages back. I'm sure you might have been part of that exchange regarding the tiers and what's available. I don't really know because you didn't even show up on my radar until you addressed me specifically to attack my citation of one specific Biblical passage. You don't speak "Bible?" How about English? I'm sure you're conversant enough in the language to use context to get the point. If you had simply skimmed over the citation, the rest of the post was pretty clear, at least it seemed so to me. At any rate, I'm not going to be bullied by some message board cowboy into hiding or being ashamed of my religion. I don't bring it up much, but the passage I did cite specifically relates to the discussion I thought we were having. So, I typed 12 characters (13 with the space) and you drive the discussion into religion bashing territory? Intolerant religious nuts like me just can't get along with anyone! That's sarcasm again, by the way. To get back to the topic, my point is actually less about what Obsidian does than about us. For myself, I won't be upset if someone manages to get something similar to me even though I had to pay more for it. I think Obsidian has to be careful to protect their brand, which means trying to balance kickstarter pledge tiers with later pledges and then also with specials and deals available to consumers on STEAM. So, while I won't begrudge someone being advantaged by the circumstances (which is part of our human experience anyway), I also understand they can't be too generous without engendering anger or outrage on the part of people who pledged more. The compromise of allowing current backers to cut a special deal doesn't seem out of order to me. However, I will point out that the money they received up front benefited them more than money they received later and the pledges they received later benefited them more than the money they get right now. At least, that's true dollar for dollar. If they have a ton of sales, then that's profit. What made the profit possible was the investment thousands of us made in the beginning. Having said that, we should give them some latitude to work out a solution that makes the most people happy and, just as importantly, pisses off the fewest number of people. So, I tell you what, take another shot at my religion and I'll let it go. I think it was asinine, but I'm not really angry so much as surprised at the depth of feeling about a mere citation. I didn't even quote the passage. After you sound all erudite by attacking me, let's put my religion aside and talk about the actual issue.

I don't really care if folks get a little more. It's like Matthew 20:16. On one hand, it's irksome that people who didn't pledge as much to get something akin to what the people who pledage more get. On the other hand, as long as I receive what I agreed to receive for my tier, why should I care? Contractually, the people who pledged at a higher tier should only expect what they were promised. Realistically, as long as the people at lower tier don't get *more* than what the higher tiers receives, I don't think it matters really all that much. okay okay, I *do* want my new ringtones. I'll probably come in and grouse if I don't have good ringtones *and* instructions on how to install them on my phone.

I'm pretty much with Enoch on helpers. There are two choices, not to care, in which case they end up dead pretty quick because I'm not risking my actual team on them, or to develop an attachment and then baby-sit idiotic people throughout the game. I haven't had any helps who have contributed anything substantial to me the entire game. I'm not saying that they *can't* help. I'm just saying I sail on just fine without them. However, I feel responsible for the pup, so I'm going to find it a home if I can. Apart from the discussion of animal companions, my favorite part of the LA section of the game is when I got to I rarely get the chance to make such a decision in these games without the nagging worry that maybe there was a better way. There can be no diplomacy with someone who is diametrically opposed to your values and will attack them by force at every chance. The best I could have done was infiltrate and spy on him, but destroying him utterly best serves the interests of the LA region and I didn't want to give him a chance to weasel his way into being a permanent threat. Plus, we're Rangers, honorable to our word. Maybe, after he's dead and buried, I might have mercy on the remnants of his organization if they can be pacified and agree to peaceful co-existence or even cooperation.

That little robot I fixed got the chop early and I couldn't fix it again. That's the only 'pet' I've had. Oh, and some dude following me around spouting off Latin. He lasted a bit longer.

Aside: I stopped playing about fifteen minutes ago and the only STEAM pop up ad was for Pillars of Eternity! Hot diggity! Anyhow, Indira, you're right about the pooch. I have fond and extremely frustrating memories of Dogmeat, but I might keep the little bugger just for the hell of it. We'll see. I think the combat in FO was a bit tougher, so it probably won't be quite as nerve grinding to keep him alive. I wish he were a cat. <.<

I came online *just* to mention this. I finished paying a bit of Wasteland 2 and I always look for the special deals in the STEAM pop up window. I guess I never thought about seeing PoE there, but it popped right up as the special. I've been avoiding the beta or even reading most of the threads these days exactly because of this. I want *my* PoE to be one I'm counting down from the pre-release advertisements to when the game actually ships and I can install it. I have to admit that I was excited to see it pop up on STEAM. I don't have much to contribute that other folks aren't already contributing, and better than I could anyway, but I can certainly be a happy customer. I can hardly wait!

One thing I thought was actually quite clever in the trailer was the fast click demonstration of the dialogue and various things like scaling the wall to the dragon egg. At first I thought, "why aren't they showing the different RP ways to address some of these situations?" Then I realized that folks who would want those options will just freeze and blow up those images to see them. One thing I like about the game is that they didn't just give extra options. They also gave taking those extra options a real ol' skool RPG feel. It's like Darklands where you have multiple choices in how to handle various situations. It has a sort of table top vibe to it. EDIT: tidy

Sorry about the double post, but I can't edit my previous one. Anyhow, does anyone know how I go about

I kept hitting the keys but nothing happened! Why! Won't! This! Work!

lol I'll CLUA in the gorilla suits and get down to monkey business. *After* I finish the current run.

Hey, what was the theme of the skill stacked party, Hiro? I got a kick out of the Koko idea, which made me think of a monkey theme. One of my skills monkeys could be Curious George.

Yeah, we think of ourselves as the player in Pillars of Eternity. The backer pet thinks it's TNO in Torment.

If it's not a debate, no need to back up the theory crafting. I agree entirely about going for what you consider fun. My next run, I'm more interested in the theme. Seriously considering that LOST run. Soooo, if I'm not going to substantiate the cha/int leader idea, maybe I'll go with two skills guys and two complete combat folks, one of whom will be a brawler with Brute Force. Two skills guys? Niles and Frasier Crane?

I'm going to shadow your test also, Hiro. This is *not* because I don't trust you, but because I figure you would benefit from confirmation from someone who dislikes the build. That's assuming you trust my honest assessment. What I'll be looking at is combat efficiency and skill checks. I'm not particularly impressed with 4 levels ahead at level 20 because, from personal experience with the game, which is substantial right now even if it isn't the 400 hours Marc had logged. 4 levels at 20 doesn't mean a huge amount, but with high int that could mean a decent spread of extra skills. The real test of the build is combat. By that I mean, you could skill stack one person and let the other three people shine, and how much they shine is the real payoff as far as I'm concerned. At any rate, I'll take your exact initial build, if you include the stat mix for which Enoch asked. Don't take this as a personal challenge, but a way to substantiate the claim. I also plan on building a balanced party and spreading out the skills between them and then seeing how combat works for them. My suspicion, which is my initial bias for the test, is that both parties will be perfectly viable on Supreme Jerk. However, I think the fact that this debate is so hot and heavy really underscores what I see as a true deficiency in the design. The suggested build requires substantial meta-gaming in the first place. I don't necessarily hate meta-gaming, but I do think it's a poor argument for a great build that you can only discern through a level of familiarity with the game that is virtually impossible on even a second playthrough. We're literally figuring out how to stack skills in order to game the skill check system for XP. Frankly, my assessment is that if you're worried about extra levels, just go on raider hunting expeditions early and you'll get a few extra levels for everyone pretty quickly and you don't really even need to do that in order to surpass the obstacles I've seen. On the other hand, while I avoid virtually all random encounters, I *am* a completenik, so I suppose that could have rendered extra levels a casual gamer might not have had. Of course, a casual gamer probably won't skill stack either.

Great,

If I figure out how to marker the map, I'll let you know, and if you figure out how to change the position of the character line-up, you let me know. <.< I'm not really criticizing your build, Marc. I just contend that builds should just focus on what they do operationally rather than what they earn XP wise. I personally think the fact that potential XP spreads impact decisions on how to build the party in any way doesn't commend the design. This is the primary example of why I dislike incidental XP in the first place. People can claim it doesn't make any difference to them and that it's just a way to get XP for accomplishing stuff, but it almost demands meta-gaming, even when the increased XP is marginal. People can game the system with quests and the like, but the sheer instances of incidental XP confront the player constantly throughout the game. The fact that it's a topic in this manner only exemplifies the effect it has on the game. ...And figuring out how to exploit what amounts in most cases to trivial XP differences becomes a mini-game in and of itself. Personally, I like Repair. It doesn't have a ton of uses and I have rarely been able to use it to fix a critical failure, but it fits my RPG vision and it *does* have some significant advantages in key situations. My next run, I'm thinking about dumping brute force after I replace Angela. I can only think of one place where a weak stick of dynamite can't accomplish the same thing as brute force, but please let me know if I'm mistaken.

Even to game the system for what will amount to a negligible amount of XP, you're really wasting good skill points. Repair is useful for some things, although I don't think it's necessary for anything on the crit path. The way I see it, you're probably just better off pretending that there is no incidental XP for non combat skills and building your party around doing what you want it to do as best it can. ...Unless you're saving before each use, which ranges from time consuming to excruciating and even then I think you're probably still building the most efficient party. You're just investing the smallest amount in a skill not to get 'impossible' checks. Next run, I'm actually going to invest in fewer skills and get them up to snuff faster, I think. EDIT:

Get a room before the thread gets locked, you two. Don't make me lock the both of you up somewhere until you kiss and make up. I haven't had any long exchanges in Bruce, although we did discuss cheese if I recall it right. I *have* had many long and protracted disagreements with Hiro, and we seem to get along okay. Geez, stop bein' playah hatahs and bury the hatchet, preferably not in each other's skull. Grab a flight to CO and smoke a peace pipe full of the ganga or something. Anyhow, thanks for the tip, Indira. I'll have to keep an eye out for further Scorpibeast encounters. My skill monkey is at 9 for Computers that I make ten with a trinket. I might actually increase it to a full 10 so I can use a better combat trinket and I don't have to deal with the drawback of the current PDA trinket during battles where Computer skills have some application. Or I'll just smite them with righteous vengeance like I did the first time.

Arzt would *have* to be my explosives expert. :Cant's burnishing his halo while looking innocent icon:

Okay, guys, let's break it up here. Time for a Kumbaya moment. We'll sing songs and drink hot chocolate and knife a few raiders. I think we can all agree that my next party will be the best of the bunch, mostly because I'll come up with a really good theme that will put all others to shame. I was thinking of a Sandford and Son theme, but there really aren't enough strong main characters. Maybe LOST? Since charisma means squat for dialogue, I can split up the speaking skills between people. Shepherd is the hard ass. Locke is the smart ass. Linus is the kiss ass. I dunno. Decisions decisions decisions.

Unfair? What if I want to just sit at the inn and drink beer because thats the kind of adventurer I am - I will be seriously under-leveled - is that fair? Seriously, I should look up the thread from way the hell back where the guy insists that he should be able to sit at the bar all day as part of his RP. We were suggesting a barmaid class where you got XP for cleaning glasses and serving ale. lol Come to think of it, that might have been on the old interplay boards. Damn, good times!