Arouet

Is not... quite true. None of those people have anything to do with FemFreq, and while I know GG has seen this, they are not the ones starting it and this is kinda outside their usual 'territory'. Correct. Also, could he have drawn just one squggly red arrow on there? Just one? I should note, his chronology of events IS correct. Just who he attributed it to is wrong. Then it becomes an accusation that "These people tweeted this". Very damning.

Is not... quite true. None of those people have anything to do with FemFreq, and while I know GG has seen this, they are not the ones starting it and this is kinda outside their usual 'territory'. Correct. But I'm the one who wants to make this about GG. Of course. Also, could he have drawn just one squggly red arrow on there? Just one?

I'm going to explain this once, which you will no doubt ignore. How high is the possiblity of there being an actual killing spree against men by "SJWs"? Ok, how many times has the panic defense actually been used by murder defendants? Also, are you going to post here again or did you make an account just for that? So are you arguing that somehow this joke is contributing to the actual murder of transpeople? That sounds like a slippery slope if I ever heard one... Look, I'm not arguing that bad things don't happen to transpeople, they definitely do. But I'm pretty confident that this joke has nothing to do with those things, and will never have anything to do with those things. This isn't a hill I'm going to die on. I'm just pointing out it's a little disingenouous to make them equivalent. I don't think that they believe that people posting #KillAllMen are ACTUALLY going to kill all men. But I do think that it's hate speech regardless. A little off topic, but do you think that uttering an anti-Irish slur in America and say, the N-word, today, are equivalent? I'll chime in. No, but that is amazingly american-centirc. This game is released in more than just America, so your specifying down to just America seems... strange. Yes, I know. I was just trying to cut down the possibility of an evasion by making the situation more specific.

I'm going to explain this once, which you will no doubt ignore. How high is the possiblity of there being an actual killing spree against men by "SJWs"? Ok, how many times has the panic defense actually been used by murder defendants? Also, are you going to post here again or did you make an account just for that? So are you arguing that somehow this joke is contributing to the actual murder of transpeople? That sounds like a slippery slope if I ever heard one... Look, I'm not arguing that bad things don't happen to transpeople, they definitely do. But I'm pretty confident that this joke has nothing to do with those things, and will never have anything to do with those things. This isn't a hill I'm going to die on. I'm just pointing out it's a little disingenouous to make them equivalent. I don't think that they believe that people posting #KillAllMen are ACTUALLY going to kill all men. But I do think that it's hate speech regardless. A little off topic, but do you think that uttering an anti-Irish slur in America and say, the N-word, today, are equivalent?

It has been claimed that the #Killallmen joke was equivalent in its badness. I pointed out why it might not be. That's all I did. I was not expressing approval of either joke. I'm a guy, btw. I just love Kaelyn the Dove.

I'm going to explain this once, which you will no doubt ignore. How high is the possiblity of there being an actual killing spree against men by "SJWs"? Ok, how many times has the panic defense actually been used by murder defendants? Also, are you going to post here again or did you make an account just for that? So are you arguing that somehow this joke is contributing to the actual murder of transpeople? That sounds like a slippery slope if I ever heard one... Look, I'm not arguing that bad things don't happen to transpeople, they definitely do. But I'm pretty confident that this joke has nothing to do with those things, and will never have anything to do with those things. This isn't a hill I'm going to die on. I'm just pointing out it's a little disingenouous to make them equivalent.

Three and a half. How many of you actually fear for your lives daily that an SJW will murder you because you are male?

I'm going to explain this once, which you will no doubt ignore. How high is the possiblity of there being an actual killing spree against men by "SJWs"? Ok, how many times has the panic defense actually been used by murder defendants? Also, are you going to post here again or did you make an account just for that?

And believe me they will be offended by something pretty soon, this past week alone I've seem the very same crowd beign offended at Totalbiscuit, beign offended at a cover for a Batgirl comic, and they also had LiongsGate studios delete a few of their tweets because they were deemed offended. Everyone that disagrees is attacked, like I showed with Totalbiscuit and declared a misogynist or transphone and then put in one of those famous blockbots. You get put on the blocklist if you follow the certain individuals such as Roguestar or Sargon of Akkad.

Yes, the fact that someone that actively promotes genocide and someone that was a former neo-nazi got the ear of Obsidian so easily is pretty disturbing, the minimum background check should reveal this, the fact that veteran game developers with 20-30 years of experience in the industry bow down to the wishes of these people are clearly crazy (and yes promoting genocide is crazy) is pretty telling, these demands should have been dismissed immediately after people saw where they coming from. I'm looking forward to when this thread progresses to its natural conclusion and consists entirely of speculation over Zoe Quinn's sex life. This makes your whole position really laughable. I hope you know this. It really doesn't. Should the line be pulled? This is the question. Instead we think the main issue is running background checks on the people who first noticed it.

How do know they don't want the joke in the game? Explain to me why bigotry in the game's world, a fantasy construct, should affect you. Explain to me why pulling a dumb joke offends you so much. Over and over again, this is what I hear: "They can't do that to our pledges! Only we can do that to our pledges!"

Yes, the fact that someone that actively promotes genocide and someone that was a former neo-nazi got the ear of Obsidian so easily is pretty disturbing, the minimum background check should reveal this, the fact that veteran game developers with 20-30 years of experience in the industry bow down to the wishes of these people are clearly crazy (and yes promoting genocide is crazy) is pretty telling, these demands should have been dismissed immediately after people saw where they coming from. I'm looking forward to when this thread progresses to its natural conclusion and consists entirely of speculation over Zoe Quinn's sex life. The only people who have brought "that discussion" up in this thread have been anti "that discussion." Do me a favor and count how many times the word 'SJW' has been spoken in this thread. It's worthy of KiA.

So what you're saying is it's not censorship unless you actually manage to censor it? Intention doesn't count? What? "Obsidian deciding". Yeah, right. And a big mob shouting at them surely didn't influence their decision in any way. If that's your arguement, just know that none of you are allowed to demand a refund or try put pressure on Obsidian in this thread in any way.

Yes, the fact that someone that actively promotes genocide and someone that was a former neo-nazi got the ear of Obsidian so easily is pretty disturbing, the minimum background check should reveal this, the fact that veteran game developers with 20-30 years of experience in the industry bow down to the wishes of these people are clearly crazy (and yes promoting genocide is crazy) is pretty telling, these demands should have been dismissed immediately after people saw where they coming from. I'm looking forward to when this thread progresses to its natural conclusion and consists entirely of speculation over Zoe Quinn's sex life.

No one is claiming that EVERYONE thinks it. Only the majority. There's a difference. Just look at the threads. About 5 people saying to purge it, and about 30 or so defending it at least. Maybe that's the real ratio and maybe I've been using the internet long enough to figure out that these threads are a magnet for the most vocal irregardless of their actual proportion among a fanbase. If you can't see how there might be a sliiiiiiiiiiiiight selection bias there then I know not to take your seriously now. Thanks!

It's definitely censorship, but I think the flawed assumption here is that all censorship is "bad." For example, I'm pretty sure that just about any major website would not allow the KKK to write articles for them. Is this censorship? Probably. Is it "bad?" Definitely not. If that's censorship then the term is absolutely meaningless. That makes not allowing me to use your forum account to post my political opinions censorship.

Yes Then I want my money back and they can delete my game from steam or disable my key. I will never tolerate censorship I never did or will. Since I live in Germany Censorship is a very serious topic for me since I often have to suffer from it in terms of video games. Developers doing what they want is censorship? Like I said, censorship just means doings thing things you don't want. Doing what you do want? That's listening to your customers! No they are already putting social pressure on the developers ad that is the best way to censor in this day and age. And these people know exactly how it works. Organize a mob on social networks and done. As opposed to the mob in this thread?

Backers who think the line should stay, go ahead and argue for it. But stop pretending you speak for all of us. I think it's a one ****ty joke and it's beyond satire that there's this much anger about it, BEFORE Obsidian has made any decision at all

Yes Then I want my money back and they can delete my game from steam or disable my key. I will never tolerate censorship I never did or will. Since I live in Germany Censorship is a very serious topic for me since I often have to suffer from it in terms of video games. Developers doing what they want is censorship? Like I said, censorship just means doings thing things you don't want. Doing what you do want? That's listening to your customers!

BUT IF THEY DON'T AGREE WITH IT, THAT MEANS IT HAS TO BE CENSORSHIP!

And if they agree with him? What then? Are you going to demand your money back? Start a petition? Boycott all of Obsidian's products from here on? Because they did something with their game you didn't agree with? None of you can define censorship other than "the developer doing something I disagree with". If you agree with it, then it's ok to put pressure on them? See how rediculous this is? Am I a dirty outsider because I think pulling it's a good idea? Even if I backed the KS the first day it came out? Obviously yes, because you don't agree with it.

I hate Obsidian so much I'm going to go right back to playing the game now.

I figure the whole "it's Obsidian's choice" thing would have made clear who I place more capital on in the struggle you're painting. As someone in the field, I think the choice is left to the creator. Do I have a preference? Sure. But you can't talk about mobs in one sentence and then make an argument to the people right after. The argument is this. Obsidian allowed it in. This was them choosing to let it in their game. Now people are demanding it be pulled. AFTER Obsidian chose to let it in. That WAS their choice, was it not? Actually, from Sawyer's tweet it looks like they woud have pulled it if they had caught it in time.

This thread has caused my opinion of the intelligence of the average Obsidian "fan" on these forums to plummet. Seriously, if you can't handle a developer not wanting a bigoted joke in their game, I'll provide you with a free tiny violin before the door hits you on your ass on the way out.

I won't speak for anyone else but I don't think you personally need to apologize for anything. I think that Obsidian should have been more transparent in what was going on though. Backers should have gotten keys before anyone else. That didn't happen and when it didn't happen Obsidian should have been in front of that situation explaining why. We still don't really know why. At the end of the day, I don't think anyone is going to be upset, backer wise, as long as they have the game pre-loaded and ready to play when it unlocks. They did explain. BAdler stated in a post the exact reason why Steam is pre-loading; ie, because they had to tell Steam to turn on pre-loading so our keys could actually work once given to us, and once Steam turned on pre-loading everybody who had pre-ordered automatically started pre-loading. If they hadn't told Steam to turn on pre-loading, then our keys would not work until tomorrow morning. You not knowing is not the same as them not communicating. Then why Larian with Divinity Origin and inXile with Wasteland 2 give the keys days away without problem? Because not every game is the same. You will have more than 24 hours to download it. Chill.