Goddard

I think people that haven't seen evil don't understand it. It isn't childish. I've worked in a prison and grew up poor in the city. It is easy to tell the difference between the evil, the unlawful, and the neutral and good. I don't think it is childish at all. It actually provides a good way to think of things. I remember walking around the city and thinking this guy acts like Aran Linvail.

Blasphemy! You don't like D&D? :D Also is that Salem the cat? I really like 2.5 personally. I don't like the system that much. D20 is not my thing. And the alignment system is childish for my tastes. Before 3rd, I don't like anything at all, mechanics-wise I do like the general idea, the worlds and the feeling though. Faerun is one of my most beloved places and I'd kill to see a game in the Dark Sun setting. Also, no, this is Matte, (my) cat You don't like choosing an alignment? That is really important for the purpose of role-playing and makes for interesting checks and dialog options in games. Also cool spells. That is not to say you can't be reformed evil character or fallen good character. I love the alignment system. How is it childish? I would say in BG it is semi-realistic. People sin and then repent at churches or temples.

Blasphemy! You don't like D&D? :D Also is that Salem the cat? I really like 2.5 personally.

What do you guys think?

That does sound like an interesting road to go down. You could still have a rest mechanic and the number of spells cast could be limited by abilities and level(experience). I love the absurdity in the Infinity Engine games and I am not against trying different systems. The game allowed you to become insanely powerful, or to follow the story and play a normal party. I am just against insane restrictions that don't seem realistic in a fantasy world. I don't know how a writer would tell the story, and the mage heard the sounds of scratching on the cave ground ahead of him, but couldn't cast a shield spell because he can only cast spells in combat because......reasons. *wiggling fingers in the air* Elminster was tired, but his party was unable to rest to regain their endurance because they needed a special set of ingredients that look like logs for a fire to rejuvenate them, oh and fatigue is different then endurance and all our spell casters are unable to effect the endurance of a person despite our amazingly fantastical magical abilities and it is because......reasons. *wiggling fingers in the air*

Brain might vs Body might, wait I am confused what is Intellect? I thought that was your ability to solve problems? Also what about perception which is how perceptive you are but doesn't add anything to magic usage? If I more perceptively cast my spell and know the enemy is traveling some tricky way won't that perceptiveness help? Also shouldn't perceptiveness, or intellect effect how well you can determine the range on AoE spells? :D

No dumb Ranger Barbarian that talks to Rodents?

Speaking of which, there is going to be much more advanced AI scripting for party AI or specific character AI (not sure if it's whole party or specific companion) and you can create your own, so, you should very well be able to do that. Not a huge lot of details on it atm, some mentions in places and Josh Sawyer teased a screenshot of the UI, but it's definetly a thing. Yeah for some people that might be really cool, I am one of those people that actually likes to select each party members actions. Suffice it to say I do a lot of pausing. :D I will test it out though for sure.

Yeah was just trying to break up meme guy. :D I mean and I also have said so many things that people are boiling down to a "preference-off" which isn't the case. Thanks for staying on topic though.

I think you might be confusing discussing the ramifications of different systems and just saying "I like that". Not the same thing.

This, so very much so. No one is (rightly) faulting anyone for having preferences, but standing around having a preference-off does no one any good. The reasons that are the basis for our opinions are what matters most in collaboratively figuring out ways in which we can build the game such that we can all enjoy it as much as possible. I don't think anyone here really has a problem with the general idea of casting buffs, or resting to heal. Again, if they were playing a tabletop game and had to decide on some place to rest, with a DM deciding what happens based upon when and where they rest, and it led to interesting gameplay for them specifically because of the choices they made, then they'd most likely enjoy it a lot more. But, CRPGs give people a lot of reasons to not enjoy many of the things that have been implemented over the years, largely because they're carry-overs from tabletop without the meatiness that tabletop brings. I love roleplaying, but I'm not going to play a game in which resting purely replenishes your spells and health and such, then PRETEND that all the other factors are there to actually support much more meaning in when and where I rest. There are plenty of other games that actually support that roleplay. I'm not going to go play Checkers and pretend that all the pieces are the characters in PoE, when I could just play PoE and have to pretend a lot less to achieve awesome roleplaying. Don't use a hammer to take out a screw when you can just use a different tool. If you want to use a hammer, find a goal that the hammer's good for, THEN use the hammer. I really liked how everything translated over in BG personally. The over controlling or lazy might disagree. I am not worried about clicking a couple buttons to heal players after a fight. Resting is always more important in time limiting factors which I think should be explored. I mean again you could of always put it into a macro, script bound to a hot key, or if you are really smart you could just have the computer play it completely and you could go have a sandwich. :D Adding more dynamic systems makes things more fun. Limiting things makes them less fun. It might be easier for a developer to manage or a lazy player, but much more creative to see how far you can push things. If a player wants to be lazy enable a god mode and just follow the story. No big deal with a single player game.

Dang you should of told me, I would of made you a script that would automatically cast healing spells after a fight and only in those instances and you can control it the rest of the time.

I take it you never used the default AI script for healing clerics in BG?

Infinity Engine games had resource management and attrition campaigns. Sometimes it was important and some times it wasn't, but it always effected party members that didn't have their requirements meet. IE games was also much less each encounter is a vacuum in one regard because some of the effects of that fight carried over and only you could fix those effects. So many areas didn't allow resting. The idea you need a special camping equipment doesn't track especially when you are in the woods with twigs aplenty :D I agree in IE games the AI wasn't as intelligent as it could be and kiting and other things could of been solved. If you initiate an encounter they fixed some of these issues in other games with a "hearing" check. If a monster "hears" the encounter then they would come running. This adds tons of options for Rouges or Stealthishness fighting. That same level of intelligence of enemies is still present in PoE though. You can still kite enemies, but they do have a rudimentary limiter that prevents them from being kited too far away.

Entire games are produced with these elements. Some people like constant game play(Diablo) and story line(PoE), but also a lot of people like strategic management along with story line. That isn't to say it was required in Infinity Engine games. You could play the game without using a potion or scroll or even having a mage, cleric, or druid. Although no healing potion is gonna be rough ;D Personally I don't understand everyone's hatred for moving their left finger and clicking a mouse. :D It wasn't repetitive firstly. Your character/party is constantly changing and growing. You discover new items and face new enemies. If you click the item in combat or before combat that doesn't change the fact you have to click the item. What it does change though is many more complicated aspects of combat if you also think about the other choices that were made in conjunction with that dynamic. Also often times you didn't want to pre-buff before combat because some wizards, or creatures would dispel your magic and your stuff would be wasted. It added many more things you had to worry about. I like stories as well guys and I listen to audio books, or read a book off the shelf, but when I play a game I want to do the work and thinking. Games are time consuming. Why is this a problem? Why is organizing your inventory of cool items you have found bad? Why is organizing tactics before a monster fight bad? Why is thinking critically about tactics and items bad? PoE adds enchanting so obviously people liked the idea of thinking critically about their characters strength and optimizing items. I am not saying some games have boring aspects to them that may not be your favorite. I am saying that in Infinity Engine games you could play how ever you liked. You were not required to pre-buff, but you could. You didn't get insta-healed and effects had real long term consequences. My wife and I love playing mystery games. My daughter also doesn't really like fighting games. Because of this should they remove having to fight in PoE? I mean it is repetitive after all. You fight monsters and they die and you progress right? Why not just solve puzzles? Or why not just watch a video game movie instead? I am being slightly sarcastic so I apologize, but just trying to prove my point here. Although watching video game movies can be fun :D I am sure that is not what we want. For myself, I want complex fighting systems and character effects and progression so I can have a unique character that can move through a larger world and develop a story based on my actions. That is always what I though was really cool with Infinity Engine games. Obviously some aspects cared less for your "evil" or "good" deeds, but still it was fun to get different responses and it added to the play styles. Trying to play a fun character that was harder to play vs a character that was just the most powerful you could possibly be was different styles of play and it was fun. Not every class or character has to "balanced" and when I say that I mean exactly the same "power". High level mages in D&D for example were insanely powerful, but it was a struggle to get to that point. Rouges could more easily gain tons of coin and fantastic items. Rangers have an awesome pet and spells and could also fight. I mean all these different characteristics make things different which makes things new and fun to understand and play with.

Because it requires so much "intelligence" to know to have an antidote, and elixir of health or a scroll of restoration (or their respective assorted divine spells) right?! It's a "tactical" thing right? ... hogwash. It's a chore... i did it cause i didnt have a choice but it doesnt add anything to the game. It was a time sink basically... In tabletop its fine cause its just a roll of the dice... Ironically, you waste more time in the computer game where you need to wait for each casting animation to finish. In PoE you have injuries as a consequence that are permanent debuffs of various sorts (until you rest, if you have camping supplies)... And it's good enough. No need to make more of a hassle of it in my opinion. Certain specific status effects that are hard to get rid of are fine if they make sense story wise and for me should be related to a quest (like when you were poisoned and had to get the 2 components of the antidote in BG1)... But for me, they shouldnt be stuff you have to deal with every second fight... The variety of spell effects yes it was tactical. If you had a full party those potions and scrolls didn't last long. Spell effects in PoE are all short lived. Petrification is a joke in PoE where as in Infinity Engine it was to be feared. I have nothing to fear in this game besides not resting because my character will get chunked. That is boring in my opinion and is very simplistic in comparison. This game revives my character, removes all harmful effects and has no pre-combat tactics. It is more Diablo style game play in my opinion. Only thing they would have to do is remove resting and you couldn't tell much apart from the two beside the obviously better story line.

Hmm, because players would start prebuffing before every 2nd fight. Which could lead to two possible outcomes:- the game becomes too easy. Obsidian buffs enemies. Prebuffing becomes almost a must, and basically a chore. - the buffs are nerfed, because you no longer have to choose between casting a damaging spell or a buff instead of it during combat, i.e. the cost of casting a buff becomes lower, and thus it's effect is being reduced to match it. And I can't resist my urge to add: Because pre-buffing was tedious, like watching paint dry while you're mechanically clicking more or less the same spell buttons. I'd rather do any such combat tactics while the fighting is taking place. EDIT: I just realized that you've already made that point: chore indeed. That suggests your character is static and fixed and you never got new spells, potions, fighting a different enemy that required different tactics.

How does it change tactics? In both Pillars and Baldurs Gate after the battle you end up with full health. However in BG you have to spam rest button couple time before that happens. There is no limit to resting, there is no danger in resting (unless you are really low on health and some people could die in an ambush). In Infinity Engine games it definitely didn't heal you after a fight and it didn't remove any negative effects until they ran out normally and things like level drain from vampires required you to see a cleric or temple. In fact if you tried resting with poison and your character was low on life that character would probably die. All the effects of fighting didn't just disappear because the fighting was done.

In short ??? No. There are such things as quality of life improvements of which this is one. Yeah I think some examples of quality of life are intelligence of the game like clicking on a locked chest sends the best man for the job and traps, or picking up loot sends the closest in the party. Things like that are quality of life, or having things sent to "stash" or infinity bag of holding. I don't think automatically healing, reviving, and removing poisons is quality of life. That drastically changes game tactics.

If that is the argument isn't everything redundant? :D

There might actually be such skill checks in PoE2. The video in update 40 shows some passive skills like insight and history and one of Josh Sawyers teasers had some history skill related thing to an item in conversation. Those skills definetly open the possibility. Seems to be a gameplay compromise since they wanted to change the health system from the way it was before. Yeah since they decided not to have casting outside of combat you couldn't heal your party members with a spell after a fight, or quickly cast some poison neutralization. Sounds like a limitation. In a single player game time is always a factor because you never know when a party member will leave, or a quest would fall off and healing party members and resting had to be juggled to a degree. Can't just sleep for a week to have all your characters heal because you know one of your party members is gonna leave. haha Some NPCs were jerks and self centered and some were "nice". That video is funny by the way.

Yeah I think it could be done and I remember seeing it all the time in these games to a lesser degree. You go walking through a forest and they will have some foot prints show up with some internal dialog pop up text. I mean we constantly have quests, but these quests don't have to be limited to just doing skill checks for a hidden door, or opening a lock. Why aren't their skill checks to decipher tomes, or even just being able to have clues in the ultimate story revealed early that lead to shortcuts and different side quests. Dynamic systems make things more fun to me is my entire meaning behind using pre-buffing. Some people say they don't like it because they personally created a formula of combat where they would constantly cast the same spells and that is fine, but I didn't do that and would say it isn't required. Especially considering you have only a limited number of spells even more so in the Infinity Engine games. Truly epic scrolls are expensive and rare and since you can actually account for ever single game item as opposed to a massively online multiplayer game it can be balanced much easier because you know in this land we only have 4 protection from undead scrolls and sometimes they were hard to find, or even cursed. We had a HUGE difference in the casting system. All spell casters now are more like Sorcerers if you compare it to IE. With a mage, cleric, and druid you had specific spells you would put in your spell book and that is all you could cast. Now all games seem to let you just cast a specific amount of any spell level. I don't understand why almost all games have adopted this same thing. Sword Coast Legends was even more like Diablo. Automatically healing after a fight also seems strange to me. All the poison that effected your body is gone. No level drain. It just limits variety using this type of system. If an assassin attacked you with a poisoned blade but fell during battle you still might die after the fact. My dog just got in a fight with a snake and got bitten in the fact and it swelled up. She killed the snake, but she was hurt two days afterwards until the non-lethal venom left her system. I would maybe have mages protected with stone skin or invisibility and then just normal stuff before combat if I got the feeling something intense was about to happen. When you have to take pre-buffing into account it is more natural combat. I think the concept of health and endurance is pretty cool though so not totally hating on everything. Also if you think about the feat system and weapon specializations. Why is it all games just copy that same idea is again something that doesn't make sense. Just because something is new doesn't always make it better. Look at the Nexus 6 vs all the new google nexus and pixel phones. :D jk

I don't see it that way. I see what you are saying, but here is what I think about that. Yes, it does make it easier for developers and players. That doesn't mean it makes it dynamic, that doesn't mean it adds lore requirements for the world, and it definitely doesn't make it more difficult. You are walking through a cave, you see tracks, you hear heavy breathing off into the distance. Farmer Joe warned you of a giant hairy monster that howls at the night. You were at the local library where you went to learn more about the local problems. You discovered myths of a werebeast and in those documents it says you must protect yourself from their scratches otherwise you could become one yourself. It also states possible weaknesses. You decide to be the hero and save this town from their fate that has existed for 1000s of years. You gather your supplies and prepare for the battle ahead. You descend into the cave. You find out it is a old miners cave and the werebeast is 3 levels deep. You come to find multiple different creatures living in the cave. Once you get to the stairs to level 3 you start to see human remains, and bloody paw prints from what looks like a bipedal wolf. You decide to prepare yourself vs the beast and you start down the path. The werebeast is huge. Its strikes knock you down, but you know you won't turn into a beast yourself because protected yourself. You tell your companion with a gun that now is the time, the beast is weakended as the text suggested and now is the time to lay the killing blow. He inserts a silver bullet into his gun. Direct heat to the beasts heart. The beast slowly falls to its knees, the hair around the beast is shedding and the beastly wolf features begin to transform into a woman. She is beautiful and looks to be only 16 seasons. She has a pleading, but happy look on her face. She mouths what you believe to be words of thanks and her eyes go dim and her light is no more. "Vroom woosh", "pink purple Pillars of Eternity special soul blur", you watch the soul pass from existence, but as it fades you notice a rift. It looks as if you can travel into this rift if you so wish it. You wonder if you can pass through the and still come back. "Will you travel through the rift?" "yes" "no" Just a small example.

I never said that. Please reread my post.

You are completely ignoring world lore. D&D monsters have specific things you need to watch out for. If you knew nothing of world lore before playing the game that is just how it goes, but that also doesn't mean the writers/game devs couldn't have included a way to better prepare you. Often times I think they do. Most local merchants or people you talk to on a side quest close by give you some important item that will help you survive the onslaught of what ever monstrous creature you face. That is what I am saying. This style of combat is Diablo style combat and makes world monster lore pretty pointless because you can be assured as long as you have a "balanced" party you have a way to defeat the creature. Rather the alternative is, if you do not have protection from fear when facing a mind flyer, or a godly will save you are screwed. Have fun being their pet. Understanding the lore and abilities of the creatures is just as important as the story itself. You can still be stunned in BG so I don't see the comparison. Just to make your point clear, you believe reducing the number of actions makes combat more dynamic? That is pretty counter intuitive. Adding more options increases the dynamic. This is obvious if you have children and prepare their lunches for school. You gotta pre-buff those little rascles whereas if you send them off to collect that "wonderful" free lunch you like no pre-buffing. :D