oneda

I hear you. In the series i praise so much some wizards learn to master swords for that very reason. In many instances you cannot use magic or the adversary is protected against certain kinds of magic. For those instances those with magic would be defensless. There's one 'class' in those books ( I dont wanne spoil too much) that was created by wizards to counter wizards. Those individuals don't wield magic in the conventional sense but are immune to magic and if it is used against them they can control that individuals magic and use it against them. So you have a conventional melee class that maybe isnt as strong as a pure fighter but is immune to most magic attacks and can then 'control' that persons magic. Pretty awesome. There are many ways to balance this I think. In such a world you would have to try to balance each class at least to some extent. If you have a pure caster that class would be totally defensless when facing such opponents or when magic is blocked by some other means. So no one class is powerful or effective in every situation. That's what the party is for. You need balanced personell as well as specialists. A powerful non magic melee only party would win against a slightly weaker (melee wise) magic absorbing party that would maybe be defeated by a balanced party with some specialists of each categorie and so on. So the most powerful melee classes are weak against powerful magicians while those are defenseless against medium melee, magic absorbing classes. There are countless variations. If you prefer casters only then maybe you won't be able to travel to certain areas on the map, certain cities or towns or you cant finish certain quests. A non magic party on the other hand couldn't attack the wizards stronghold etc. All alternatives should be viable but then you have certain drawbacks. It should be possible to implement such a system. Say your in need of some information. 3 Ppl have that information and are located in areas that are accessible only through theh ability to adapt to specific situations that some classes simply don't have. Well, I dont worry too much about the "believable" aspect as long as nobody is omnipotent. Of course, there will be heroes or villains and probably elements of your party, that are more powerful than your average mage or figther simply becasue they are exceptional individuals. In that respect a game should't be overbalanced. Some ppl should be exceptional while not over the top powerful. Say the enemy uses other creatures as weapons of magic. Changing them through magic, removing certain attributes while giving them other qualties they formerly didnt have. The other fraction cannot defeat those constructs by conventional means, be it with magic or swords and finally manages to create a different kind of creature specifically to counter that creature. That way you won't always be able to master encounters through combat all the time but by using the protagonists (your party) ability to outsmart your enemies. You acquire the information on how to create a counter but that takes time. Meanwhile you have to avoid streets, mountain passages, cities and so on. And on your map it shows how far those creatures have gotton on the map. Finally and after days of stealth and research you are able to conjur the counter. So indirectly you bested those foes by thinking and not simply by killing everything. Don't get me wrong I loved the combat in Bg 2 or icewind dale but it is much more immersive and realistic to be forced to sometimes outsmart your foe. A game should incorporate a conflict on all dimensions not just the battlefield. What I would also love to see is that your party is hunted at some point. Say you have a certain time to acquire some means to hide your location or make you untraceable by magic means. In the meantime, first just a few every third day, then groups every 12 hours and finally whole armies every few hours that hunt you down and if you are slow in acquiring those means you have to do a lot of combat. On the highest difficulties it would be nice to see game over more often. Give me the impression that I can die just like anybody else if I dont react adequatley for too long. That would create cool situations where you were hunted through cities and quests, facing more and more enemies all the time. And just before you get overrun you barely managed to acquire the means to hide your tracks so to speak. It would also serve as a believable threat that could crush you easily if they would just find you. Ah, there are so many cool ideas. I just think that the classic mission of kill x and gather y is simply too outdated. Fetch missions are mostly boring too except if they are accompanied by a believable threat or some other dramatic motivation.

Only possible name for this game is the following, anything else is simply wrong and will never be considered in this or any other world: I am an oldschool, deep & complex role playing monster, cursed by the gods which is why I cannot be dumbed down by any existing force, cannot and will never be mainstream, will not try to be accessible even to dogs or infants or console players. Well....or something like it.

If not all dead monsters can stay on the screen then let some explode because you did too much damage to them like in icewind dale. If some do have to disappear at some point do anything you want but don't make something like in doom 3 where the monsters just vanish in an absolutely uncool way. That sparkling effect was supposed to look like theyr burning up or what not, no idea, but it totally sucked. Hated it every single time. Well, the entire game sucked. Good way is super fast decomposition (like in warcraft 3?). At least it is better than monsters just disappearing.

Read the first book and you will be convinced that (some) wizards are the ultimate sword fighters much as in the star wars saga. In fact there should be swords that are only limited to certain kinds of wizards. Ever since I was a fan of the 'spellsword' classes or the arcane warrior in dragon age or even a jedi. I love that whole idea. Wheel of time is really good. The only thing that I didn't like was that later in the series more and more characters get introduced and at some point you don't read about the original main characters for long passages or even entire books. What is also cool about Wizard's First Rule, and the entire series, is that it gets intense right from the very start. After 20 pages or less you won't be able to stop reading. In some books you have endless introductions of dozens of characters. Sometimes the books are awesome anyways e.g. Peter. F. Hamilton's Commonwealth saga. It takes ages and prolly the introduction of 100 characters and 300 pages of reading before you actually get an idea of what is really going on. As I am not a very patient person I often stopped reading books that take too long to tell the actual story. In many cases I simply got bored. I need an enticing story and cool characters right from the start or after 100 pages at the latest lest I put the book down and don't touch it anymore. Same happened to the game of thrones series that someone recommended to me. I read about 100 pages but nothing happend apart from the introduction of hundreds of characters. I say: if you have a cool story then tell it already. I prolly missed out on some good books because of that attitude...

I totally agree. It should be an important part of the world. There is so much room for depth here. And placing magic as a force that must divide a society is a nice touch. What you said about magic as a technique is cool. There could be so much more. Like if you use too much of a certain kind of magic you could unintentionally invoke bad effects like calling demons or opening portals to other worlds or so many other things. Male and female should have different strenghtes and weaknesses. Characters that do not themselves cast offensive magic but are imune to most or even any magic. if you haven't yet, you should really check out Wizard's First Rule, as it is, in my opinion, even better than The Wheel of Time. One game that at least began - if superficially - to incorporate how magic would be interpreted by some fractions in a fantasy world is Baldur's Gate 2. In the city of Atkathla the party is initially very limited concerning the use of magic, as the Cowled Wizards (sharing some similarities to the Aes Sedai mentioned by you) try to control the use of magic and hunt down anybody using it and thus putting much effort into consolidating their monopol on magic. As this limitation is circumvented relatively easily early on in the game, restricted to only one city (even though Atkathla is rather big), the potential for an ambivalent impact of magic on magic istelf is sadly not exhausted but, given the game's epic story, forgiven. Nevertheless, as it should be, some party would ultimatley try to control magic and would thus enforce their doctrine upon any potential adversary. Condemning those using magic, while using magic themselves to subdue wizards and sorceresses, puts the lie to those morally and forcefully sanctioning the use and spread of magic which would in and off itself result in a never ending controversy, a vicious slipknot tightening ever more around civilizations neck, as it soon begins to touch both, those with and those without magic. And, well, splitting a society. As a third or even main party in such a world, the sudden appearance of fanatic representatives for or against magic, the ensuing, ever present conflict would give most hostile or non-hostile encounters in such a world another comprehensible dimension. My party is in an area with seemingly powerless goblins that serve as cannonfodder? You think you can just blast your way through them? Think twice because that valley is known for those that do not allow anybody to use magic and suddently more and more enforcers start to teleport to your location until you are overrun by their numbers and your party has to teleport away or be captured. Those fantatics shouldn't be simply "bought". It should be harder to avoid their influence if impossible. So you would have to either side with them, work with them or find ways to avoid them which would affect how and where your party travels. Which cities are friendly, neutral or hostile to magic wielders. This is just an oversimplified example as in in Baldur's Gate, but it would at least partially adress magic's proper role in a world. This would force players to think twice how and where to use magic.

You liked those books, didn't you ! ) Yea, i think it's a good example of how complex a magical society must be. In so many games magic's potential to be a central and intriguing part of the main plot is neglected. I remember while reading the wheel of time how I often sympathized with the main characters because they might turn insane at some point.

Though I undertstand the advantages of sharing all those little ideas concerning art styles or weapon designs, or how some spells could work in conjuction with other classes, etc. etc. I'm not sure I would want the developers to spend so much time listening to thousands of those little ideas of what could be implemented. Not even a few hundred. Implementing all of that is a huge task. I would rather have them focus on what made games like bg2 epic. The story, atmosphere, interaction and combat. What if every single one of those suggestions was implemented, but the story was dull or the combat too buggy or what not. Then the game would suck. With or without all those suggested little suggestions. Ultimatley they do not decide whether a game is fun or not. It seems much more important to focus on those major pillars instead. 1 hour spent on a feature that allows us to name our swords is 1 hour less spent on the story. And so on. As those minor ideas don't contribute to the overall qualtiy of the game I would simply trust those experienced developers like Obsidian to do a decent job with them. But thats just my opinion.

As the title suggests there are some fantasies (e.g. in games, books, movies) that implement a considerable amount of depth to the whole idea of magic, its role in fictional societies, the origin and how it affects the struggle of good vs. evil. What I'm getting at is the importance that is ascribed to the existence of magic and how it contributes to or enhances a fiction. Magic must have a great impact on a world. It stands for the unknowable, the interface granting glimpses of godlike knowledge to some, while reducing those without it to powerless pawns. Building the potential for greatness or corruption an arena obviously too fantastic for the ungifted to grasp, as it encompasses what we fear and/or don't understand. Empowering those able to wield superhuman forces to either unbalance the world of life or strengthen it. And I like the idea that the scale of what magic can accomplish is limitless and thus because of its volatile nature already a major part of the overall story. Take earth nowadays: Mere differences in religion, ethnicity or ideology have caused no end of grief. Yet those differences do not reach the fundamental controversy properties of magic would induce a society with. The belief that magic is the means to salvation or ultimate misuse would inevitably split any society into either fierce supporters or those that fear it, condemning it as powers that man has no right to wield or simply those that want to live their lifes unaffected by it, in or outside a magical realm. A few examples for, in my opinion enticing as well as disturbing ( in a goodway) properties allocated to magic's potential effect on a world: In the Sword of Truth series the fear of and hate for magic was instrumentalized and part of the mechanism that enabled the assemby of a military force large enough to dominate the rest of the world. At the same time the sheer limitless power of magic is balanced by fear and blind faith, non-magical emotional or intelectual dispositions, which surprisingly rival and even surpass magic's destructive potential, constantly reminding the reader that not power in istelf, be it of magical or non-magical nature, but it's interpretatoin and use is of relevance. Fruit for thought from a reader's point of view but negligible regarding magic's ascribed effectiveness when it comes to its use in warfare by those with power and ambition. As some follow the ultimate goal to destroy all magic, they neglect or willingly risk the possibility of unforseen consequences for a world without magic, as some fraction of any magically touched civilization would be apprehensive concerning life's dependency on magic as in The Sword of Truth. As cryptic as I write, I do it for those that have not read those books and maybe plan to. Great books. I envy anbody who hasn't read them. Still, in the case of the series this struggle is an obvious but convenient realization of how the fear of the otherworldly would be utilized to influence people's ideological and political disposition. Here, anything that is causatively connected to magic is an integral part of the overall struggle. In The Wheel of Time, another good series of fantasy books, some elements of magic have been corrupted throughout and because of this struggle, guiding the reader through a world in which half of the 'gifted' eventually go insane. Little seems worse than losing ones mind and the underlying implication that those living are undeserving of such potential - and were thus punished - enrichens the reading experience with a constant looming threat to the characters we begin to identify with as the plot progresses. In both cases magic in itself is introduced as one of the major reasons for hostilities in the past. Unavoidably some trace of that struggle would have to be left in the present fictional world (the time the player enters the world in an fantasy set in an rpg). In any struggle, the previously existing nature of those elements comprising the heart of the confrontation ( be it the political system, resources, culture, land, beliefs, you name it...) undergoes sometimes slight but mostly considerable changes which could lead to the destruction of the entire world or the mere replacment of a king and anything in between be it phsyical or intellectual. Societies, ideas, lifes, lands, etc. are inevitably changed by wars. The same goes for magic. If the fictional world is at least partially based on human interaction and motivation in the history of our real world, then magic must have been at the center of probably every confrontation in that fiction as it is the embodiment of opposing lifestyles and...simply put: power. As a consequence magic in itself must have undergone changes that in turn might affect the spread of magic, or how often those with magic are born, or the way magic manifests in creatures, or simply the societal or authoritatively introduced lmitations or cencessions to magic. It would be nice to see a world that, as stated above, has been touched, if not violently strangled by this controversy revolving around supporters and those opposing magic. Those are just two examples, but I think that this are great ways to give magic a more appropriate and deserving role, compared to let's say a role where it is reduced to being simply an inherent trait in some creatures where its usage is limited to creating fireballs (I luv fireballs). Giving too little credit to the impact magic must have had on a world and itself. Afterall, if you compare the sheer destructive potential of magic to nuclear power as represantations of fictional and real ultimate military prowess, then it seems prudent to attribute some of the same qualtities to it. Namely: Every major power desperately wants to control it while denying any potential adversary access to it. Make a world where magic doesn't simply 'exist' seemingly unaffected by its own power. If you have great ideas for, or examples of how magic could be realized adequately in a world (and a game), please share.

I have to agree with the thread starter. Bg2 and Icewind dale 1&2 I really luved. Specially Bg2 which i consider to be the best rpg i ever played to date. What Icewind dale 2 made better was the combat. That waves of enemies would suddenly come from different directions in multiple stages and you had to block their path with webs and such. What I also really liked was that some encounters in Icewind dale 2 really went on and on. The battle would take minutes sometimes and you had to move your party into better positions, retreat and use certain spells to block a path, or slow a group down, or cast that sphere thing on a party member that is about to die or what not. On higher difficulties I truely enjoyed the encounters, with dozens of monsters littering the ground all around me, my party in the red with only magic missiles and no heals at all left, with a storm of magic all around me at the peak of the battle, giant elementals or undead zombie lords i spawn to cover me. In Icewind dale 2 there was a little more of that feeling that you get overrun at times. Fighting only 10 enemies isnt really that epic. Theres more to it and I don't want to write endlessly about why it was so much fun. But if Obsidian takes the story and interaction from Bg2 and Planescape, implements a fresh combat style as cool, hopefully even much better, than in Iwd2's, then I would be only too happy. The only heart felt wish I have is for the developers to ignore the trend of most modern rpgs: Namely, that a game has to be easily accessible, desperatly needs an open world and has to appeal to a wide variety of people (mainstream). For me, that would probably destroy what I hope to be a spiritual successor of those awesome games. Don't get me wrong, some very popular and accessible games I had a lot of fun with. Mass Effect 1-3 were very entertaining. But even playing through the third game for the first time I got bored too quickly with the repetitive combat that had absolutely no level of complexity to it. Not by a long shot. Apart from story and plot...make the combat epic. Make combat long and brutal at times so that after a fight players thinkg. "Jesus Christ...that was so cool, I just got ambushed by an army of monters and barely triumphed." What also really rocked was that in those games you would encounter many "boss" enemies or monsters that would comment on how far you have gotton or that you are a powerful hero or group but that he or she will stop you. Sounds simple enough but I really dig that stuff. I want so many spells and monsters, that you really have to use a good portion of your spells and abilities to win. Creating a master work of a story, like in Planescape or in Bg2 isn't easy and probably only happens once a decade. But still, put a lot of emphasis on a story and make a good story. It may not be epic or amazing but if its good and the gameplay is as much fun as in Bg2 and Iwd2 then the game will simply rock away any other dumbed down rpgs that I have seen in the last ten years.

Greetings to all fans and the Obsidian team, I write here today because i want to express just how happy I am that such a project was greeted with so much support and enthusiasm. And since it is very late here in Germany and I cannot sleep for some weird reason I will write a few lines. Bear with me if you are bored too or jump to the heading "What I hope to see and not to see in Project Eternity", where I will briefly outline what I want for this title and what I do not like about so many of the other rpgs out there or the mindset with which they were created. It is fantastic that, in my humble opinion, the spirit of the best role playing games ever created (Baldur's Gate 2 + Tob, Icewind dale I +II, Planescape) is used as a guide to tell a new epic story. Most people here will probably share my love for those games, so it is not necessary to underline just how much I like those games. Only this: Up until about 2010 I had never played any of the Infinity Engine games, smply because I was apparently preoccupied with a lot of other games in the past and had never "stumbled" over one of them. That those gems finally crossed my path is my brothers doing because he gave me a netbook as a gift prior to my study abroad program. He himself had never tried any of those games and didn't know they existed and after I told him he still wasn't and isn't interested (How is that possible when I repeatedly and most emphatically explained how great they are???) I was about to embark to Jamaica to study there and had only a few days left. The gifted netbook was supposed to ensure that I could skype with my family and friends. So shortly before my trip started I took a few hours to understand what my netbook is capable of and if it would run any games. This particular netbook was absolutely not designed to play any modern game. So, as you can imagine, I started to look for older games....and then even older games, as my netbook just refused to run any game I knew and liked apart from snes emulated games (haha). Finally, in some forum about netbooks, I stumbled over a thread mentioning infinity engine games that run on netbooks. Why not I thought and got Baldur's Gate II, installed it, saw that it actually ran and left to Jamaica. It took another 2 months before I sat down in my tiny room and loaded the game because there was too much great stuff to do and I completly forgot about the game. At some point though there was a absolutley nasty storm that raged on for days. More and stronger rain than I had ever experienced in Germany poured down and it was impossible to set foot outside wtihout getting drenched in seconds. So I finally remembered the game. It ran pretty good when there wasn't much action on the screen. Battles were another matter. If there were a lot of monsters and spells, then the game would slow down considerably to a point where it was almost unplayable. But... I realized that I started to get completly hooked to the fantastically told story, the plot, the characters, the gigantic world, the monsters, spells and the brillant atmosphere. After I returned to Germany (and people the Carribean is simply great, my stay there was amazing but that's another story but I recommend to anybody to travel to those islands) I reinstalled the game on my desktop pc which was a whole new level of playing that game in all its beauty. On a big screen with no slowing down. When I was done I "devoured" Icewind dale one and two and later Planescape Torment. Prior to those experiences my favorit rpgs were: Kotor, Gothic 2 and later, after it was released, Dragon Age. I hadnt played a lot of other rpgs. AND BAM. I was in love. Really in love with those games. My personal favorits are Baldur's Gate 2 ToB and Icewind dale 2, but the other 2 games were really awesome too. . . . . . . . What I hope to see and not to see in Project Eternity: -Basically what was said by the developers, a party based (big party of 6), class based, isometric vew, oldschool rpg, with a massivley entertaining story that is told by an awesome voice and even better characters in the game. Don't get me wrong, not everything has to be voiced over. I think in Baldur's Gate 2 and Icewind dale 2 there was a perfect balance of voiced parts and simply written dialogue. But that's just my opinion because I fear that too much resources could be spend on voices and actors which probably won't work with a game on the scale of Project Eternity anyway. -Deep and complex character creation just like in the old games -Many different classes that you have to balance to build a strong group and if you fail to allocate the proper stats and abilities then your party would simply be too weak. Though in Project Eternity you "gather" your party and only build your main char. I loved the way classes like e.g. figther, wizard, thief, cleric, paladin, druid complemented each other so well, each providing unique abilities that the entire party profited from. Great just great. This is what I want again. Nothing less. -And I want to distance myself as far away as humanly possible from any "dumbing down" or "easily accessible". Those phrases and what they mean are the bane of players like me. There has been way too much dumbing down. By now even dogs can easily play any game because they have been dumbed down to the ground, to explode there, create a deep ugly crater and drill all the way to the deep hells of badly cursed IQ planes to mess up things there. I say "When in doubt go back to the roots of awesomness and build from there". Exactly what Obsidian does. God I love you guys for this -100 awesome spells that have to be used intelligently to master tough battles. Basically just give me battles like in Baldur's Gate II ToB and Icewind dale II. Those were great and I loved everything from trying the right buff combination prior to battles up to the choice of offensive and defensive spells you decide to have at the ready. I spent so many hours figuring out which spells I could use in what situation, only to realize I have to use a whole set of other spells to defeat certain foes. -And, most importantly, give me a real story. All I ever read about modern rpgs is: Open/dynamic world, open world, open world, open world, open world and bla bla bla. To hell with any open world is what I say. Being able to travel the entire world when and how I want is simply, and pardon my french, ****. Why is that so important to everybody? I dont get it. -When I compare the "grand" open worlds of games like Oblivion or Skyrim to the sheer power of the story of Baldur's Gate 2 and Planescape Torment and especially how epic they are told, than those goddamn open worlds are not even worth mentioning. Think about it. Any good story be it in a book or movie needs purpose and reason. People dont just wander all over the damn world just because they want to wander all over the place. There is a reason why the cool heroes go to certain places or seek out individuals or groups. Yes, maybe they have to look in some areas but nobody ever just wanders all over the globe. At least I believe that this whole open world business is utter nonsense. To pour resources into a big and totally open world is a waste of time and effort that should have gone into what makes a fantasy fun. An epic story told in an epic way. -Irenicus chain bombards open worlds with his sheer awesomenss and dominates all of them. A cool story, a really bad villain (how cool is Irenicus and that he wants to rid himself of a curse by abusing other bhaal spawn, or Melissan who tries to gather the essence of all the bhal spawn to become a god), is what I want 1000000 times over any bloody open world. I curse any open world. -Take as long as you need, dear Obsidian developers, graphics are of secondary importance. Really. Those old games, I still play them and they are well over 10 years old. If somebody told me "Hey, dood, there is another game like those old games. It's just been released and it is as great as any of them but uses the very same old graphics." Damn, I'd probably run around waving my hands and dancing on a table. And apart from that, the artwork and designs in those old games are, to me, wonderful and perfectly adequate. Yeah, of course I like nice graphics too but they are, just like open worlds a feature that isn't the deciding factor when it comes to how great a game is. Not by a long shot. Take your good time and tell a great story about mad wizards, gods, hordes of monsters that want to devour the world and so on. THAT is what makes games like those mentioned here so good and unforgettable. -Well, I just repeat what has already been mentioned over and over again here by everybody else, but I have to express my utter support for such a project because this endeavor deserves every support it can get. And I simply love that you guys are now independent of any publisher that wants to dumb anything down or make it more accessible. You guys are free to do all of this or at least a good portion of what I define as elements that make those games so great. -Ok, that's it. If any hero made it through this crazily long text then maybe that person can answer me one question that just popped into my mind. And yeah I realize the information is probably somewhere in the forum but i only read one or two threads before I wrote this. What ruleset will be used in Project Eternity? Peace everybody and greetings from Hanover, the weather is **** here by the way