Neversleep

Crafting balance in relation to looted gear is something that concerns me also, and has been touched on in my thread here: http://forums.obsidi...m-descriptions/ Basically the concept is that while the lore and (hopefully) concept art accompanying the items you find in the world increases the appeal and allure of those items, a crafting system - if not done just right - can accomplish the exact opposite. HotU was the most striking example of this for me. The crafting system in that game allowed you to add every conceivable bonus to your gear. This meant that the items you found while adventuring could never compare to the ones you enhanced yourself. Certain combinations of properties are always going to be exploitable (adding the Keen property to weapons with a base threat range of 18-20 comes to mind). Once you have made a weapon like this you will hardly spare a second glance at the ones you pick up from the hoard of that dragon you just slew It's not just the fact that crafted equipment can be overpowered either. Crafted items can never have the character of loot items. They have base item appearance, no accompanying lore and no room for unique concept art (should such a thing be implemented, *wink*). From a roleplaying perspective, I also don't like the fact that adventurers - who would be part time craftsmen at best - could equal or outstrip the efforts of even the realms most gifted artisans, be they contemporary or even stretching back to antiquity. So with all that said, how do you do a crafting system well? I have one answer, although it may not be a popular one - don't include one! Okay, it has already been promised as a feature so no turning back now... if you have to have one, how do you balance it so that it doesn't detract from the gear found out in the wild or ends up being useless? My opinion is that the crafting of consumable items (potions, scrolls, bombs etc) is something the character should be free to do with fair frequency - within balancing limits of course. Crafting of arms and armor however, should be a very costly endeavor. I can see a system working where the number of items created in this way during the course of the game is very limited - to the extent where the player must very carefully consider which items he/she wants to create as outfitting an entire party or even just one character in elite crafted gear is not feasible. I could also see crafting of gear consuming a uniform resource (soulstones anyone? not sure yet how obsidian will handle the harnessing of souls for such purposes or moral implications thereof), with more powerful gear consuming more of this resource. This would require the player to choose between crafting more numerous amounts of mid level gear or saving it all for just a handful of very powerful endgame items. Powerful crafted items should be *unique* allowing for a proper lore entry and... concept art drawing For roleplaying purposes I would also like to see crafting achieved under the mentorship of and in partnership with an NPC artisan of great skill. This would somewhat account for the relatively fast increase and overall quality of the player characters skill and the influence of this NPC should be seen in the design and lore of the crafted items. Okay i'm tired now - moar coffee!!

"Hindo's Doom! Can you say it? Hindo's Dooooooooooooooooom"

I consulted the omnipotent oracle known as "google image search" and found some examples of the kind of stuff i'm talking about! BG vets won't need any reminder, but it's not inconceivable (and rather melancholy) that some of our younger PE supporters might not have had the pleasure of seeing item descriptions with art like this in cRPG's before. Carsomyr is particularly beautiful imo - although i'm not sure how you would hold it without skewering yourself on those downward protruding needles on the hilt! Come to think of it, Celestial Fury also seems to have some dangerous pointy bits pointing in the wrong direction

One of the details that meant a lot to me in Baldur's Gate was the concept art drawings that appeared on the backgrounds behind the text of item descriptions. I would love to see these included in PE! They make it clear that a lot of attention to detail has gone into the creation of the items in the world. This goes hand in hand with the unique item descriptions that many (or most) magical items had in Baldur's Gate. This attention to detail enhances the perceived value of these items to the player. A Longsword +2 is just a weapon with a number on the end, but a weapon with a unique story of its own and a beautiful piece of art that shows the exquisite detail on the hilt or blade will mean a lot more to the player. Much of what made the old infinity engine games so fun was the item hunt, the collection of rare and powerful artifacts steeped in history waiting to be discovered down the depths of some forsaken pit. Therefore, these items should be as rich in detail as possible to enhance their appeal. To be clear I would not expect this for every item in the game. "Regular" magical items (not unique) might share their concept art/description with their non-magical counterparts, thus greatly cutting down on the required work to implement the feature. P.S. As a side note, this is the reason why I am not a big fan of crafting systems in these games. Making items should not be a mundane activity as this reduces the perceived value of the items you find out in the world. I did like the system in Baldur's Gate 2 (although i'm not sure if you would call it crafting exactly) as the items created hence were unique and featured their own lore. Their assembly could also hardly be called a mundane activity.

I couldn't agree with your post more! But I would also extend this to combat in general. In Dragon Age 2 the enemies spawning from every direction during a battle was particularly annoying as it largely nullifies any value around strategic party formations. You also have no idea how many waves of spawns a battle will entail and so no idea whether you are walking into a minor or major confrontation Apart from the tactical implications it also disrupts my sense of immersion - it doesn't make sense for enemies to appear out of nowhere unless such enemies are actually capable of invisibility/sneak or teleportation. I'm not too worried about this though - Obsidian have clearly stated that party formations will be featured in the game and that the game will be very close to the infinity engine games (which didn't "feature" random mob spawns) so I think it's a safe bet this won't be a problem

There are actually a few other differences, but I can see your point. At $500, the book is signed, there's a gold VIP badge, and gold thanks in credits. I guess it depends on what is important to the individual. I thought the message was a fairly good 'peace offering' for adding the unsigned book to the $250, but that, of course, will vary person-to-person. Yes, I imagine it's difficult to balance tier rewards against personal priorities. I bumped my backing to $140 for the beta key but have since dropped it to less than half since it's cheaper to just add the beta key afterwards. Well, people will find one they're comfortable with and hopefully can afford, anyway... Still, I may very well bump back up depending on what information, concept art (gear, races, vistas, etc. etc.), and such--including stretch goals. This particular update was very good with regard to an interesting magic system, IMO, so I'm still waffling. I suppose lots of people at the lower tiers might be tempted to move up to $250 for the hardcover books. If more people move up than down that's a net win for the project. As the project overfunds more and more the "pledging to get the game made" incentive starts to lessen - especially the incentive to pledge at a high level. With no danger of the project not obtaining its funding, isn't it logical for people to pledge just enough to get the rewards they are interested in? Assuming my logic is sound, there lies danger/opportunity in strengthening any particular reward tier as some people will move up and some will move down. I think that just emphasizes how important the stretch goals are - if there are attractive targets yet to be reached it may encourage backers to increase their pledges even if lower tiers already contain the rewards they would otherwise have settled for

Just a quick comment on update #16 regarding the rewards tiers: I am a bit concerned that with the addition of the hardcover books to the $250 tier, the folks who are currently in at $500 may feel a bit hard done by. Currently the only difference between the two tiers as far as I can tell is the in-game message (if I am mistaken please correct me). $250 difference is quite a lot to pay for an in-game mention. I understand the folks who are in at this level are probably doing so more out of love for the cause than physical rewards, still - it would be unfortunate if some of those guys moved down to the $250 tier. That's my 2 cents, I would recommend adding something to the $500 tier if a workable option can be found