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Osvir

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Posts posted by Osvir

    Josh Sawyer on Miss and Hit

    in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)

    Posted

    What do you guys think of the idea of making "chance to dodge" independent of "chance to block"?

     

    To be honest, I think it's a cool idea but likewise, if text represented in a log, it could be the same thing and having "dodge", "block" and "parry" be random generated in the text log. I don't think there's going to be a "block", "parry" or "dodge" animation.... IF there's a dodge animation they should naturally be independent but if there isn't, then I think having the "Log Text"-Representative is simple and fulfilling enough.

     

    Rogue has one "dodge" ability so it might be a little bit "Player skill" tied to dodging. Which sounds great :)

    Josh Sawyer on Miss and Hit

    in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)

    Posted

    What if the outcome of a critical miss was a range of effects, rather than just damage?

    • Self-knockdown
    • Self-disarm
    • Self-stun
    • Self-wounding (i.e. damage over multiple rounds)

    If you rolled a critical miss with a ranged weapon, maybe this represents the arrow/bolt "sticking" and shattering (with a hilarious "sproi-oi-oi-oing" sound effect) causing temporary blindness etc.

     

    It makes more sense to introduce variety into a miss, instead of just impaling yourself every time.

     

    EDIT:

     

    Apologies if this has been suggested before. I do try to read through these forums, but on hot topics like this, it's sometimes difficult to be aware of previous suggestions.

     

    A critical miss could allow the enemy to easier land a critical hit which can cause one of those? So in a sense, it's a "critical miss" but it would rely on the enemy to land the special effect? (Stun, disarm, knockdown etc. etc.)

    • Like 1

    Josh Sawyer on Miss and Hit

    in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)

    Posted · Edited by Osvir

    Attack roll:

    you critically hit enemy = [x*2 full damage (always health damage) Does the player pay stamina?

    you hit enemy = full damage ("health or stamina" or "stamina+health"? Depends on the hit?) Does the player pay stamina?

    you graze enemy = half damage (health or stamina? Depends on the graze?) Does the player pay stamina?

    you miss = no health damage is inflicted (X stamina damage) Does the player pay stamina?

    you critically miss = stamina damage to yourself or penalties to defense rolls for next incoming hostile attacks.

     

    Defense roll:

    character does not block or parry = damage (from attack roll) is inflicted (health/stamina? Depends on the attack?) Does the player pay stamina?

    character blocks = less damage (from attack roll) is inflicted (stamina damage to both parties involved) Does the player pay stamina?

    character parries = no damage (from attack roll) is inflicted (stamina damage to both parties involved) Does the player pay stamina?

    character dodges = same as miss/critical miss. Does the player stamina?

     

    Missed the bottom one in the original post~

     

    Baldur's Gate had critical miss, even a line in the sound set.

    Building Structures?

    in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)

    Posted · Edited by Osvir

    Faction Wars Can you become your own Faction (Suikoden-styled)? Could it be possible to "place objects" in P:E? Kind of how Warcraft 3 begun to do (see the mesh before placing etc. etc.). Would you then order craftsmen to build your fortress in your own way at whatever location marked by a "Flag" item that you placed.

     

    Hire craftsmen to build it, and not entirely dependent on what class you play, but rather what type of craftsmen they are. A "Devil's Forge" might not build the "Angelic Haven of Love" to say that much.

     

    I haven't gotten that far in BG2 but I understand you get a stronghold based on what class you play. So should a stronghold be based of off the world or of off the class you pick? Is the Stronghold its own location or a location in a location?

     

    Faction: Could you become your own village, kingdom? Could a "texture" mesh become an overlay correspondingly to textures around it as the "stronghold" grows? Is the place in the world a good trade route?

     

    Maybe a bit "Strategy game too much". Could you progress the game with a hut instead, and not being a faction at all, but more of a "mysterious savior"? Would it impact the story? Are men fighting men or are men fighting Gods? Both? Does the essence of the soul (ethereal or not) fight as well in smaller schemes and larger schemes?

     

    Thoughts?

    • Like 1

    Faction Wars

    in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)

    Posted

    I would like to meet squadrons on their way to battle, getting caught into it or waiting a bit (hiding) until they have passed. Or talking your way out of it. Maybe even getting caught up in the middle of a "bandit camp area", bandits have been triggered because you were close by, and now gather in ambush (positioning etc. etc.). Perhaps even there is two factions battling it out, and you can stay and wait it out, or take a route around it.

     

    Can you mess with two factions into fighting each other? Can you become your own Faction (Suikoden-styled)? Could it be possible to "place objects" in P:E? Kind of how Warcraft 3 begun to do (see the mesh before placing etc. etc.). Would you then order craftsmen to build your fortress in your own way at whatever location marked by a "Flag" item that you placed. Sorry, de-railing topic. Making a new topic.

    • Like 1

    Josh Sawyer on Miss and Hit

    in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)

    Posted · Edited by Osvir

    Additionally:

    You know this might be a mistake on my part. Looking at the DoTA/LoL games, those games really are dependent on gear (very little character customization)

     

    Masteries, Rune Pages, Build Order (Which skill should you invest in first? Which Gear should you focus on buying etc. etc in what order?). All of this different for which champion you like. You've barely scratched the surface Hormalakh if you just started playing. Takes time to get to level 30.

     

    DotA is pretty much only Build Order. DotA 2 offers some "level up" awards that are slightly beneficial but that is gear as well.

     

    I also realized that I was missing the "frustration" of early level combat but at the same time, there was a more linear approach that I should be taking towards combat. If my variances fall within a certain range, my character can only approach a smaller subset of combat situations at any time. I know the average damages that I can produce at any time and the combat situations I put myself in must fall within the appropriate risk/reward scenarios. As these variance ranges of probability decrease, my options of "viable" combat scenarios decrease. Dodging enemies allows you to sometimes risk fighting enemies at a higher-level than you, even though the the risks are high. Yet the rewards for such a fight are also high

    Yes, that is a consequence of normalizing ranges, so again this comes back to asking players the question, "How much chaos do you like?" In many cases, this is a personal preference. I have, for instance, seen people request elements like the fabled Ars Magica/Rolemaster botches and crits of old, which were wild and crazy.

     

    Could a chaotic character pathway/roleplay lead to more chaotic mechanics?

    Anime - the emotional rolercoaster.

    in Way Off-Topic

    Posted

    There's that fine line of romantic and juvenile melodrama... and love and obsession :shifty:

     

    But the hopeless romance can be awkward, and the flip side is, what do you call it when you have tried moving on, bounced therapy, drink, medication, throwing yourself into work, dating other people, throwing yourself into hobbies, keeping yourself distracted with assorted other things, and years on you still find yourself feeling that way about that one person and getting hit with the loss of it all? If you've gone through all the processes that should let you / help you move on, but none of them have actually worked, it reaches a point of slamming your head against a wall in trying to let go properly.

     

    Because there was something genuinely impressive and beautiful in what you are trying to run away from (In yourself). I remember the feeling I had, when I was most in love or summer crush like "Grease". Just feeling of freedom, independence, love for everything. Then you get torn, Atlantic sized, work, life catches up, stress. All you want is that feeling of love, but the only place you get it is on a computer screen talking with someone on a continent away. Ridiculous!

     

    When you stop chasing for something externally to achieve this state I think you'll understand you already had it internally :) ups and downs, some are mountains, and some are larger than others, and then you fall down.

     

    The point is to find a mountain you can climb with someone, and not a mountain you climb for a reward :)

    Weapons that Enemies react to

    in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)

    Posted

    Oh I'm just highlighting it because I thought it could be a cool idea :)

     

    You adventure down the path, the sword you hold is struggling against you, in some ways trying to devour you and it's been doing it for a while now. As you enter the depths of the caves, the abomination from hell now welcomes you, smiling at you as you fight them and dies almost willingly by your hand, the other group you faced also did the same thing but now it's almost an extreme. That was the last of his thoughts before the sword in his hand stabbed through his own chest~ or something less ridiculed.

     

    Would a strong soul be able to manipulate the soul(s) in the weapon, though? Could magic amplify it? Enchantments? Can enchantments come chaotically/naturally+proficiency? Or should it be more a controlled craft? Both?

     

    Does weapons have souls? What is "soul"? (as in "What is mana?")

    Weapons that Enemies react to

    in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)

    Posted

    That is such a great idea AGX :) weapons becoming weaker the more you slay. Could a dying Wizard curse the player weapon? Can the player curse enemy weapons? (Making them not such a good idea to pick up but it helped in the fight, a group of some bandits with longswords, you wouldn't worry about picking up those long swords anyways, and probably not curse the opponent bosses).

     

    But would such a function/mechanic make the Player decide whether to equip that badass sword you've got right now or wait a while because you don't want the sword to become weak?

     

    Additionally of "durability" could there be some sort of "soul damage" to a weapon?

     

    No orcs in P:E eh? Sounds all good :) I didn't know.

    Hardcore Ironman & "Pause"

    in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)

    Posted · Edited by Osvir

    No. No what makes you come to that conclusion Ieo?

     

    I just said that I think that BG is inheritable difficult as is if you enforce yourself not to "Pause".

     

    What does MMO have anything to do with it? P:E would be played like the IE games and Josh has already said that he feels that nostalgic feeling about it? Sure, there could be a feature or two that you could use if you took it apart in an MMO game, that's the entire thing, you'd have to pick it apart first. <- underline is de-railing topic.

     

    *shakes head*

     

    Try playing Baldur's Gate without "Pause" on the hardest difficulty and tell me how difficult it is. More or less than MMO-kindergarten? You got BG:EE, right Ieo? So which is harder? MMO or BG? (without pause)

     

    EDIT: "Parried"

    Weapons that Enemies react to

    in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)

    Posted

    I just figured if you've got a character in the dark/shadows, an orc stands a couple of feet away looking the character's way and there's a blue glow, the Orc should see it. Hence why I thought they could react to it. This depends on if P:E will utilize some light/vision mechanics where enemies can see you better from Fog of War if you've got a light source of some kind.

     

    Gandalf picks up a sword after the Trolls (The Hobbit) which the Orcs react strongly to with hate and disgust (before Bilbo meets Gollum). A legendary sword which had slain many Orcs.

     

    Could a weapon I use become a tool for "Morale"? If I've slain 100 Orcs in total, would their souls somehow linger within the blade and could make more Orcs drop in "Morale" or go "Berserk" when they see feel it?

    Hardcore Ironman & "Pause"

    in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)

    Posted

    Sacred_Path pretty much said it.

     

    Baldur's Gate can be played entirely real time, except it is very very difficult (on higher difficulties too). P:E should be difficult on "real time", challenging, that's all I'm advocating for (we all agree). Like Sacred_Path said, you could simply enforce yourself to not press "Pause". Likewise, like in another thread (About Economy & Difficulty, Adventurer's Hall "Off" option?), enforcing yourself is not quite the same as being enforced "You can't climb that 'mountain' because the game doesn't allow you" versus "Oh you can, but you don't have to climb that 'mountain'".

     

    If there are optional rules, that makes the game more difficult for the Challenger/Player, turning off "Pause" in some script sounds not too difficult to implement, unless the pause is woven into abilities and events and the fabric of the world somehow in the code, then it might be a little bit more difficult to just turn "Off".

     

    I'm just saying plain n' simple that it'd be physically difficult to be able to turn pause "Off" or on a "Timer" or just "Unlimited". Just as if the Adventurer's Hall would make the game more difficult by being able to turn it "Off". Likewise, I can just enforce myself (but in that case there's always a plan B).

     

    What I'm thinking is something Heroes of Might & Magic use, where you can choose "Indefinite" or choose a specific time for how much time everyone can take on their turn and I wonder if a mechanic like that would be functional in P:E.

     

    Playing with the idea/Brainstorming: Could a "Pause" physically affect your party members somehow on a harder difficulty? Stamina drain? Penalties? Morale? That might make little sense, I'm fishing for difficulty ideas~

    Josh Sawyer on Miss and Hit

    in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)

    Posted · Edited by Osvir

    That's what happens when you put thoughts together and mash it up in a mosh pit of hungry nerds.

     

    EDIT: @SunBro, wow. Like 5 posts at the same time :p

     

    EDIT EDIT: SunBro (loving the sn btw) quoted Something Awful.

     

    How about a long clear wall of text explaining the advantages and disadvantages with detalied mathematical examples of this new system ? Instead of getting more paranoid whenever Mr. Josh replies a post :yes:

    The really brief version is to imagine a normal attack in AD&D, but if you miss, you inflict half minimum damage. Math and values can get shoved all over the place, but that's the fundamental mechanic. Whether you like the concept is separate from how well it works in practice (which really comes down to math/value specifics).

     

    Well, something like this is what I would like to see in PE (with armor, shield and stat bonuses/maluses and what not of course):

     

    Attack roll:

    you critically hit enemy = [x*2 full damage (always health damage) Does the player pay stamina?

    you hit enemy = full damage ("health or stamina" or "stamina+health"? Depends on the hit?) Does the player pay stamina?

    you strafe enemy = half damage (health or stamina? Depends on the graze?) Does the player pay stamina?

    you miss = no health damage is inflicted (X stamina damage) Does the player pay stamina?

    you critically miss = stamina damage to yourself or penalties to defense rolls for next incoming hostile attacks.

     

    Defense roll:

    character does not block or parry = damage (from attack roll) is inflicted (health/stamina? Depends on the attack?) Does the player pay stamina?

    character blocks = less damage (from attack roll) is inflicted (stamina damage to both parties involved) Does the player pay stamina?

    character parries = no damage (from attack roll) is inflicted (stamina damage to both parties involved) Does the player pay stamina?

    character dodges =

     

    I like it. I added my own thoughts to it. Just conceptual numbers. Does the player pay stamina for attacking/defending/casting? is an important question in my opinion. Guns shooting shouldn't cost stamina, reloading should. apart from taking a lot of time to reload (shooting maybe once or twice in combat?). How do you balance that? With 6 party members, one guy could sit outside of battle and just keep on reloading/shooting. How much time does it take to reload and are you easier "To Hit" when you are reloading? (Easier to score a "Critical Hit" on someone reloading? Would that be beneficial in creating an "AI Hook"?).

     

    Does a Wizard block with a Grimoire? Can the Grimoire take damage for this? Or is it better to just bring up a magical veil/barrier? How powerful should "blocking" be? Do I use a Fly Squatter against Bugs (Half-Minute Hero <3) or can the enemy have similar benefits? Equal ground somewhat. Ofc, that's more "harder difficulty" talk.

    Developer Punishment

    in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)

    Posted

    True bro.

     

    I made this thread inspired by some of the comments and rebuttals on the "Resting" mechanic, if that wasn't obvious enough (what with the sandwich). That was really only the reason~ but I do enjoy the lightning strike in Baldur's Gate (even though it can be a bit frustrating, it's a fun environmental thing in my opinion) as well as the funny "chuckle" bored banters. Harmless.

     

    In my opinion, sure, the title is silly and the sandwich is silly childish (by me), but the idea that Baldur's Gate and other IE games utilize isn't silly. I'm discussing ideas that are already in the spiritual prequels to P:E. Are there going to be new ones in P:E?

     

    Environmental Effects+Party Banters~ Can a party member give a clue to you if you're just walking around in circles and can't find an entrance that you're looking for? Can a swarm of bees attack you as you walk through a forest? Lightning strikes when it rains and storms? Earthquakes? Flood/Tsunami? Or is that too much? Can you take it down a notch? Can you change it? Magical environmental effects? DM powers?

     

    Can the DM punish the player in a D&D session and do they do it often?

     

    "DM Punishment" could also have been a better title~

    Hardcore Ironman & "Pause"

    in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)

    Posted

    Some difficulty thoughts, specifically on "Pausing". Could it be time-limited with a cooldown? "You've got 30 seconds to make your decisions" in "Pause-Mode" on Hardcore, or maybe as an "Option"?

     

    Personally I think it could be fun, a slider that you can decide for yourself how long of a pause you want. Perhaps you can turn "Pause" off entirely and go "Real Time" entirely.

     

    Don't get me wrong, I love the "Pause" function. Just discussing various ways to make a "Sh-- that's difficult!" difficulty :p

     

    Thoughts?

    Weapons that Enemies react to

    in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)

    Posted

    We did have a lot of discussion on "preparation" in the early stages of the Kickstarter, this could be something?

     

    How well can you prepare yourself? Can you prepare yourself wrong or can you always prepare yourself right? In Hardcore Ironman (Where I recall enemy encounters and mobs being somewhat random generated relative to spawn points in the world) will I always be prepared? Can I simply just "dish out" an enchantment on the fly to make myself easier prepared?

     

    What's the disadvantages? What if you walk through the dungeon and you see the staff starts to glow yellow, "Damn, Hell Hounds!" but it's already too late, they spotted you through the Fog of War due to the glow. You are unaware that they've spotted you, all you know is that they are close and in "Pause" mode. Maybe preparing a spell or two but still... hmm.

    Developer Punishment

    in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)

    Posted

    Thanks but no thanks. If you want to discuss beautiful me maybe you could take it to private message?

     

     

    So you are saying there were other threads by Osvirs that you find sillier? That was not the case for me the concept of spending developer resources to "punish" a gamer for walking away and not bothering to pause his game pretty much takes the silly cake for me from no matter which angle I look at it.

     

    It'll teach you to press "Pause" and not sit around waiting for Health/Stamina or whatever to regain itself?

    Josh Sawyer on Miss and Hit

    in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)

    Posted · Edited by Osvir

    Glancing+Hitting could just be general brawling visually.

     

    Critical hit+Critical miss being something excluded and/or "Specialized".

     

    A Rogue could cause the enemy to Critically Miss a lot, so sending your Fighter or Paladin against that Rogue could equal a lot of missing?

     

    Class Balance, basically. How do you deal with it? Which Class is good against what Class? What's the general set up? Support-Class, Tank-Class, Magic-Class, Rogue/Scout-Class, Ranged/Bow-Class?

     

    Melee

    General brawling, glancing+hitting Stamina. Will it overlap? Will you eventually grow in strength enough to damage more Health than Stamina? Or will it be a consistent flow? If "General Brawling", animations could be stunning. Animations frames could be piled up on several invisible "turns". Basically you chop at the enemy, they react, then they attack you. There could be forced "animation frame" end, so if you use an ability in the midst of combat, the enemy would attack before the ability is utilized (If the enemy's animation frames were "activated" before you activated your ability).

     

    Ranged

    Odd thought, but could you pause the game and do a skill shot with a bow? Get a "Rainbow" thing (like a grenade in most modern games) that you can adjust in "Pause" mode to launch an arrow at someone. Why? Because then you could shoot over your own character. The Ranger class is very strong in the IE games. What would this "Skill Shot" arrow do?

     

    A, It could negate some kiting.

    B, More importantly, you'd be able to physically block arrows with your Fighter in Defender mode. He could stand and block arrows incoming from a Ranger, so that the Wizard doesn't take any damage.

     

    Friendly fire? -> Morale? -> Party banter?

     

    Not all shots should perhaps be skill shots (with an arrow) but targeting an enemy directly shots an arrow in a straight fast path (Fast Shot?) which can be blocked. Perhaps you could choose a "fixed" curve, though that'd make enemies react after 2-3 shots (AI) seeing how you play~

     

    Magic

    Magic is magic, in many games you can still hit with magic even if you are blinded. This baffles me, like "Silence", "Blindness" should make "Single Target" spells be unusable. Why? You don't see the enemy, but AoE spells should still be able to be thrown.

     

    Blindness

    How will "Blindness" work? This is how I see how it could work: Your Wizard gets blind, selecting the Wizard (as a single selection) makes the entire game screen/board (not UI) go all Fog of War up close and personal on the Wizard. Selecting 2 characters (Maybe your Fighter who isn't blinded, and the Wizard) could perhaps allow the Wizard to throw some of his AoE spells, it could be seen as "Fighter is helping the Wizard". Like those "funny" comedy scenes from movies where one guy yells "Aim left! No no no! Right, more to the right!!!!" etc. etc.

     

    Animation+Combat

    Could it follow psuedo-turns? Magic: The Gathering styled~ for counters?

     

    Turn 1: I attack the enemy

    Turn 2: Enemy attacks me (in the midst of it I choose an ability)

    Turn 3: The ability is piled up after the enemy attack and is utilized now.

     

    Should there be counter-abilities vs attack-abilities? Specifically for different uses?

    Josh Sawyer on Miss and Hit

    in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)

    Posted · Edited by Osvir

    Parry, Block, Dodge should really be in game.

     

    Who says it couldn't? What if it could be represented in the combat log as mere text? Glancing hits equal "Block, Parry, General Fighting/Brawling" whilst "Miss" could rely on "Dodge" in both parties (PvE).

     

    Is this glancing and hitting business some sort of "General Brawling" in pacing of combat? :)

     

    What is the vision for the combat animations and can the Player interfere in the midst of it?

     

    If the enemy swings his blade, but I do "Escape" in it, does that pile up on a big pile of invisible "turns" where the enemy finishes his attack first, and then "Escape" is utilized, or could I escape in the midst of an attack and still take a hit from what visually would be a distance? I think this plays its part too in missing and hitting.

     

    Maybe a lingering question that no one dares ask hangs in the air "What does it look like?".

     

    EDIT: Also got to read up on the pages~

    Josh Sawyer on Miss and Hit

    in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)

    Posted · Edited by Osvir

    "It doesn't make sense" a general reply to that (seen that pop up over here and there).

     

    No Armor! Only Sword+Shield vs Sword+Shield in examples.

     

    It makes perfect sense! I use energy to strike, the enemy uses their energy to block = Player looses some Stamina for striking, Enemy looses some Stamina (no health loss). The enemy might dodge most of the attack, and takes the Player sword to the shoulder (which glances, maybe chops off some skin), which would do some slight Health damage as well.

     

    If I instead get a full hit, the enemy looses both energy and their vitality = Player looses some Stamina for striking, Enemy looses Stamina+Health

     

    If the enemy dodges the attack entirely, they should lose Stamina, but as the energy the Player directed entirely missed, the Player should also lose some Stamina (A Critical Miss).

     

    I hope that Critical Misses are still in the game, for enjoyment and for that extra layer of tension. I think "Stamina" and "Health" needs to be defined, because if you're chopping at the enemies Stamina mechanically and primarily, you are kind of always missing.

     

    It's not abstract or vague or dumb or surreal or whatever, it makes sense:

     

    1. I attack

    2. The enemy "dodges"

    3. Stamina damage

     

    You missed the attack (physically) but you still did some damage. Stamina, Energy, Fatigue call it whatever you will. Mortality is something else.

     

    @Nonek: Stamina!

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