dunehunter
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Posts posted by dunehunter
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Problem with Disintegrate is that it gets reduced by high RES a lot - and since bosses usually have very high RES... Combined with a graze it does pretty horrible dps. Not much compared to Resonant Touch. But if you can apply enfeebled that not only brings down CON by 5, Fortuitude by 10 and health by 25% but also prevents any healing and makes Disintegrate much more viable on bosses again.
Of course... why not combine both in a party?
By the way: keep in mind that Essence Interrupter still destroys unique loot (very reliably - always if you manage to crit). I wouldn't use it if you expect good things to drop.
If enemy has only 10 Con then Con affliction will reduce health by 25%, but if they have very high Con, the reduction is much less. Let's say a boss has a base of 1000 hp, 30 Con, so final hp = 1000 x (1 + 20 x 5%) = 2000. Under Con affliction, affected hp = 1000 x (1 + 15 x 5%) = 1750, so 2000/1750 - 100% that's like 14% health off.
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I nominate Helwalker/Ascendant. For resonance to work, you still have to hit multiple times. Whereas with disintegrate all you have to do is hit a couple of times and the boss is dead.Resonant Touch is good because it lets you not worry about enemy’s AR and deflection, as long as your attack not miss, it’s always 15+ raw damage bonus per hit. And blunderbuss makes it really OP since u hit 4 times per attack, that’s means 60~80+ damage bonus per hit regardless enemy defense stats. Not any abilities come close to such high damage bonus, not even deep wounds + deathblow since the extra damage from these passives heavily relies on enemy AR and deflection.
So yeah SC monk is the No.1 boss killer class imo, I wanna nominate SC rogue as they can do potentially high damage to big mobs too, not as strong as blunderbuss monk but close. Open fight with lover’s kiss dagger + stealth and Gouging Strike you can apply constant DoT to enemy until combat ends, they can also use the soulbound dagger to instantly kill enemy with less than 25% health, you can even combine the DoT with brand enemy from paladin to make it even stronger.
Like I said in my thread, boss in deadfire usually has very high defense, specially fortitude, for disintegrate to work on boss u need very special setup, like Morningstar modal and very high accuracy. even if u finally land one on boss, the total damage would be around 200 (because u usually will only graze on target), which if I remember correctly, don’t stack with itself, u can only expend it’s duration. not as efficient as resonant touch imo.
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I would choose Battle Axe + Bleeding Cuts over Lover's Kiss. Especially with Full Attacks and a light weapon in the offhand - e.g. Marux Amanth as you said.
Well that’s just an Opener, u can still switch to axe/dagger after right
Edit: I forget to mention Skullcrusher, as it can cause injury on enemy with empowered ability = chance to reduce 15% max health. With Final Sacrifice u only need to do damage equal to 60% of boss’ hp to kill them. So you can go Lover's Kiss + Skullcrusher + empowered Gouging + injury for opener, then switch to Magran's Favor + Marux Amanth after and finish near death boss with final sacrifice.
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it's only 10% damage per tick, which means you'd need to do at least 20 base damage to see more than 1 per tick (but decimals are retained so you might see more every once and a while based on rounding). what was your pre-PEN damage?
@MaxQuest I tested Bleeding Cut and I do think the DoT damage is reduced by underpenetration. I consoled an ukaizo guardian for test and the bleeding cut DoT shows like 1 or 0 per tick.^ DoT damage from Bleeding Cuts was not decreased by underpenetration iirc. That's how I killed Neryscirlas last playthrough for example. Basically said: screw it, I will underpen all the way, but the raw damage will still go through. (Although now I am thinking it would be better to re-check it...)
As for Wounding Shot and Deep Wounds I don't know tbh. From the gamedatabundles it looks to behave the same. Althought that's not what someone would expect in practice.
edit - I assumed bleeding cut was post-PEN damage based on some early stuff, but I haven't used it a lot, and MaxQuest tends to be right about these things (though not always
), so just probing for more detailsWell I’m testing with a lvl 20 rogue so no doubt he has more than 20 base damage
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^ DoT damage from Bleeding Cuts was not decreased by underpenetration iirc. That's how I killed Neryscirlas last playthrough for example. Basically said: screw it, I will underpen all the way, but the raw damage will still go through. (Although now I am thinking it would be better to re-check it...)
As for Wounding Shot and Deep Wounds I don't know tbh. From the gamedatabundles it looks to behave the same. Althought that's not what someone would expect in practice.
@MaxQuest I tested Bleeding Cut and I do think the DoT damage is reduced by underpenetration. I consoled an ukaizo guardian for test and the bleeding cut DoT shows like 1 or 0 per tick.
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Resonant Touch is good because it lets you not worry about enemy’s AR and deflection, as long as your attack not miss, it’s always 15+ raw damage bonus per hit. And blunderbuss makes it really OP since u hit 4 times per attack, that’s means 60~80+ damage bonus per hit regardless enemy defense stats. Not any abilities come close to such high damage bonus, not even deep wounds + deathblow since the extra damage from these passives heavily relies on enemy AR and deflection.
So yeah SC monk is the No.1 boss killer class imo, I wanna nominate SC rogue as they can do potentially high damage to big mobs too, not as strong as blunderbuss monk but close. Open fight with lover’s kiss dagger + stealth and Gouging Strike you can apply constant DoT to enemy until combat ends, they can also use the soulbound dagger to instantly kill enemy with less than 25% health, you can even combine the DoT with brand enemy from paladin to make it even stronger.
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What about a rogue/forbidden fist that maximize his INT? Forbidden fist will apply Enfeebled affliction on enemy which cause Hostile effect to last 50% longer, which combo with Toxic Strike to do more damage?
I started to hate toxic stike because in the game there is too much enemies with poison imunity ( construct, spirits, naga, ecc).
Do they fix the bug where toxic strike has not Poison keyword? If yes yeah I agree with ya.
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What about a rogue/forbidden fist that maximize his INT? Forbidden fist will apply Enfeebled affliction on enemy which cause Hostile effect to last 50% longer, which combo with Toxic Strike to do more damage?
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Don’t think they are able to balance every mob for turn based mod, but the turn blade + disengage is available in real time mode too, not sure if it’s as abusive as u described in turn based mod tho.
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https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/72?tab=files, this mod seems be to fix lots of suggestions in the poll, for anyone wanna try, not sure if it can be used with v4.1 tho.
I see a lot of chaotic rebalance and additions. And i see no current Poll suggestions, that was fixed in this mod. Show me the one.
Like rebalancing godlike passives, making monk turning wheel work with ranged attacks, buff ExaltedFocus and etc? I mean the mod is packaged in bundle so u can install them separately.
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https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/72?tab=files, this mod seems be to fix lots of suggestions in the poll, for anyone wanna try, not sure if it can be used with v4.1 tho.
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^ DoT damage from Bleeding Cuts was not decreased by underpenetration iirc. That's how I killed Neryscirlas last playthrough for example. Basically said: screw it, I will underpen all the way, but the raw damage will still go through. (Although now I am thinking it would be better to re-check it...)
As for Wounding Shot and Deep Wounds I don't know tbh. From the gamedatabundles it looks to behave the same. Althought that's not what someone would expect in practice.
At least deep wound DoT damage will be decreased if you attack underpenetrated.
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Deep Wounds, Wounding Shot and Bleeding Cuts have 3 parent status effects that are of [ApplyStatusEffectToEnemyByDamageDealt] type.
I can't check atm what it does. But would expect them to use the weapon damage that was actually dealt. Not just base damage. Although I have some doubts about lash damage being included.
P.S. Oh yes, Bleeding Cuts might be slow, but are definitely strong. If you made a hit for 50 damage, an extra 100 raw will be dealt over 60s. Even if those 50 were decreased by -75% from underpenetration.
And bonus points if you can keep the enemy under Cleansing Flames for the double tick rate.
I'm pretty sure that it's something close to base damage, because even if I backstab with my rogue, the DoT tick amount is similar to his normal attack, but just not sure if any damage bonus will increase DoT damage.
Yeah, that's my another question, what if your attack is underpenetrated, does your DoT decreased as well?
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Good question.
Unfortunately I can give only a partial answer.
First, here's some data from gamedatabundles:
> Disintegration:
{ "StatusEffectType": "Damage", "OverrideDescriptionString": -1, "OverrideDescriptionStringTactical": -1, "UseStatusEffectValueAs": "TriggeredChild", "BaseValue": 240, "Duration": 15, "MaxStackQuantity": 0, "ApplicationBehavior": "UseLongerDurationIfAlreadyApplied", "ApplicationType": "ApplyOverTime" }> Deep Wounds:{ "StatusEffectType": "Damage", "UseStatusEffectValueAs": "None", "BaseValue": 0, // it's parent has "BaseValue": 0.2, "DurationType": "UseDurationTime", "Duration": 6, "MaxStackQuantity": 0, "ApplicationBehavior": "StackIfAlreadyApplied", "ApplicationType": "ApplyOverTime" }> Wounding Shot:{ "StatusEffectType": "Damage", "UseStatusEffectValueAs": "None", "BaseValue": 0, // it's parent has "BaseValue": 0.2, "DurationType": "UseDurationTime", "Duration": 6, "MaxStackQuantity": 0, "ApplicationBehavior": "UseLongerDurationIfAlreadyApplied", "ApplicationType": "ApplyOverTime" }> Bleeding Cuts (Battle Axe):{ "StatusEffectType": "Damage", "UseStatusEffectValueAs": "None", "BaseValue": 0, // it's parent has "BaseValue": 0.1, "DurationType": "UseDurationTime", "Duration": 60, "MaxStackQuantity": 0, "ApplicationBehavior": "StackIfAlreadyApplied", "ApplicationType": "ApplyOnTick" }> Death of 1000 Cuts (DoT):{ "StatusEffectType": "Damage", "UseStatusEffectValueAs": "None", "BaseValue": 19, "DurationType": "UseDurationTime", "Duration": 30, "MaxStackQuantity": 0, "ApplicationBehavior": "AddDurationIfAlreadyApplied", "ApplicationType": "ApplyOnTick" }> and Soul Ignition for reference:{ "StatusEffectType": "Damage", "UseStatusEffectValueAs": "None", "BaseValue": 16, "DurationType": "UseDurationTime", "Duration": 15, "MaxStackQuantity": 0, "ApplicationBehavior": "UseLongerDurationIfAlreadyApplied", "ApplicationType": "ApplyOnTick" }1). As you can see there are two application types: ApplyOnTick and ApplyOverTime.
The first one applies it's BaseValue (which is also shown in tooltip) every x seconds. While the last one uses BaseValue as base Total damage, and for each tick it divides that value on number of ticks.
I don't know what's the point of this separation yet.
Maybe the idea was for ApplyOverTime to have fixed duration? But afaik they still scale with PL and INT.
Or maybe the idea was to keep Total Damage unaffected by INT? But have to test it.
2). Disintegration and Wounding Shot (and perhaps even other "ApplyOverTime" effects as well) where quite bugged on release and for quite awhile. The total damage on grazes was often higher than that on hit. It was fixed later, at least in v4.0 I could no longer replicate that. Although Wounding Shot is still very subpar.
3). Few notes on examined DoTs:
Disintegration [ApplyOverTime]:
- deals 240 damage over 15s. Unlike in later version of PoE1 it no longer stacks with itself.
Deep Wounds [ApplyOverTime]:
- deals 20% of dealt weapon damage over 6s. It stacks with itself.
Wounding Shot [ApplyOverTime]:
- deals 20% of dealt weapon damage over 6s. It doesn't stack with itself (if the new DoT instance has higher duration, it substitutes the older instance).
- one could think that each tick deals 20%, by reading the description, but nope.
Bleeding Cuts [ApplyOnTick]:
- ticks for 10% of dealt weapon damage / per 3s, for 60s. It stacks with itself.
Death of 1000 Cuts [ApplyOnTick]:
- ticks for 19 dmg / per 3s, for 30s. It doesn't stack with itself, but new instance adds it's duration to the current instance.
Thanks MaxQuest, from your list of abilities, Bleeding Cuts seems to be super strong, even stronger than Deep wounds as it last much longer. Btw 10% of 'dealt weapon damage', does this only include base weapon damage without any damage modifiers (or maybe part of damage bonus that include might bonus and weapon enchantment bonus)?
Wounding shot is really meh as it is even weaker than rogue passive ability, an active ability that is worse than passive ability.
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Did another test:
Hit my same party member who now has 192/192 health (set CON from 10 to 20) with Forbidden Fist:
- 192/192
- deal 40 crush + enfeebled
- --> 123/163
- enfeebled expires
- --> 151/192
- = 41 less health (note: 41 and not 40)
- deal 41 crush + enfeebled
- --> 87/163
- enfeebled expires
- --> 106/192
- = 86 less health
- deal 41 crush + enfeebled
- --> 49/163
- enfeebled expires
- --> 60/192
- = 132 less health
I caused 132 less health - although I only hit for 40+41+41 = 122 crush damage. While enfeebled lasted after the third hit (49 left) I actually caused 143 "temporary" dmg although only applied 122 crush damage. If you can keep up the CON-Affliction until the enemy's dead - that's pretty good. And as i said: even if you cannot - it's not bad.
That's why Bleakwalker + Assassin is very strong in early game
Con affliction + massive single attack can maximize the effect of constitution affliction. -
This is a great thread, hopefully the devs can check this and take it as part of their next patch. Maybe too late to join the party but here's my two cents:
For Rogue, i hope they can make backstab & assassin more useful in late game and less strong in early game, maybe better scale on it's damage bonus because now it's really strong in early game but really meh later when enemy has increased health.
For Monk, maybe the more priority thing to fix is synergy between Resonant Touch & Blunderbuss? Because for me, soloing a mega boss within less time than a whole party can is ridiculous.
For Wizard, I just hope they can buff Confused affliction related spells like Confusion, maybe give these spell an 2nd effect to make them match what they were in Pillars 1.
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Hey guys, just trying to figure out how DoT damages functions now in V4.1, for example the 20% damage as raw for Deep Wounds, is it 20% of the total damage u deals per blow, or does it only include basic damage from weapon (so 18~24 for gsword and 20% x 24 = 4.8 per tick)?
Thanks!
Edit: also I remember from my old test, some abilities with DoT will stack with itself while others only extend it's duration, for example Rogue ability Deep Wounds will stack while wound enchantment from weapons only extend duration with multiple attacks.
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Could you elaborate?dunehunter's equation implies that enemies with high con (s.t. they still have a bonus even after the affliction) which actually take less damage than stated
actually I don't know how to make sense of dunehunter's equation. also it's slightly wrong: constitution grants 5% health/point, not 3%.
Yes sorry you are right, it's 5% not 3%, it has been too long for me to touch the game so I forget the detailed number
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The sweet thing about Constitution Affliction is it reduces enemies's max health when u damage them, and when the affliction expired, u actually deal more damage then u expected.
For example, if your enemy has 100 HP and 10 Constitution, you did 20 damage and cause Constitution Affliction, then affliction expired, enemy's left HP = (100 x (1 - 5*0.03) - 20) / (1 - 5*0.03) = 76, so we found that u actually did 4 extra damage than u really did.
If u are confused by the math, the 5*3% is the impact of con affliction on enemy health.
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This is hands down the most annoying boss in the game. Today (I don't know if it's because of the patches or if it has always been like thiis) in the Path of the Damned Difficulty level, this guy:
- Is inmmune to stun/paralyze/immobilize or any other movement impairment skill or spell I tried
- Is uninterruptible
- The explosions of his meteor shower will always do damage, regardless of how much fire protection you have
- It´s a fight with phases... (and I totally abhor those!)
I had read many things on the internet on how to kill this boss, and even watched a couple of videos on how to do it on youtube. However, they all involved either a very specif uber combination of items or split time annoying micromanaging. There's no way around this boss without tailoring a very boss-specific strategy for this fight. However, I read some post on this forum which pointed me in the right direction. The poster said he was using a dual wielding monk with guns (a gun-fu (?) monk) and he was using resonance touch. I immediately knew this was the right tactic for me, because resonant touch is a nice generic all purpose skill, that (somewhat) helps you circumvent the complicated process of figuring out the right type of damage and items for a fight. However there were a couple of issues with his suggested strategy:
- he said it takes 800 resonances aprox to bring him down. You really need to have 1000 resonances on the boss to make sure he'll go down with a single trigger of resonant touch
- He suggested to go solo on this fight... I'm guessing he was clad with heavy life-regenerating gear, making intense use of dichotomous spirits and mortification of the soul and that he had to go through lots and LOTS of micromanaging
So after a few (or rather a few dozen) failed attempts I came out with this formula.
The Party
- My Main --> Elf, shadowdancer (assassination rogue/shattered pillar monk) Almost completely useless for this fight but I never re-train characters in games, specially not for a single fight
- Custom made wildrhymer (no subclass chanter/no subclass ranger (although it should have been ghost heart ranger))
- Custom made shepherd (darcozzi paladin/no subclass ranger (although it should have been ghost heart ranger))
- Custom made monk (extremely high perception and dexterity, proficient with guns)
- Custom made monk (extremely high perception and dexterity, proficient with guns)
Important notes:
- Custom made Wildrhymer has to have a chant with the phrase "Many Lives Pass By, Each Leaving Footprints" repeated three times (Very important!)
- Custom made Wildrhymer has to have the enhanced version of the skeleton summoning skill, "If their Bones Still Slept Under that Hill, None Can Say" (very important)
- Gear, scrolls and food to increase perception/accuracy to the max for your monks (very important!)
- Sheperd has to have improved accuracy, healing and speed auras (very important!)
- Custom made monks have to have Dichotomous spirit and resonant touch (absolutely important!)
- You may need to play this tactic with very low graphic settings, because for some reason it will become very slow by the end of the fight regardless of which system you have. I had to play it with the lowest settings and windowed.
- Monk has to have the skill that makes him more accurate the more wounds he/she has (Razor's edge) and dance of death, which generates wounds and increases accuracy
- Ideally, your shepherd would have reviving exhortation and your wildrhymer would have the enhaced version of the resurrection skill, "Rise again, rise again, scions of Adon" (recommended)
The fight
Make sure you have the chant with the summon-skeleton phrase on. You want to send one of your pets first to pull the boss. When Dorudugan is pulled (and the fight is paused), use mortification of the soul on your monks to gain wounds and start summoning your skeletons with the wildrhymer. Kite the boss with your pet towards your party and cast mortification of the soul again until you reach max wounds. Have your shepherd cast sworn enemy and marked pray on the boss. The boss should have been intercepted by the song-summoned skeleton by now and the the band of three summoned skeletons should also be up.
Make sure your paladin has the accuracy aura and have everyone in your party is shooting the boss.
Tip: do not have all three skellies attack the boss, have one of them go around the boss to flank him (helps the fight) and keep the other ones standing passively as spare tanks. As soon as you have three phrases re-summon your three skellies.
Tip 1: If you see the boss is beginning to cast meteor shower, and you are in the middle of summoning skellies, cancel the summon and continue to shoot him.
Tip 2: Do not run away from the boss until he does the clap animation for his meteor shower. While he is casting meteor shower, have the shepherd switch to the quick aura so that your party can run faster when he does the clap animation. When the boss claps, run away from the meteor shower. Waiting for the clap is the key, because once he claps, the meteor shower is locked on a location. If you start running prior to the clap animation, he will recalculate the shower's trajectory as you run. so that it's always facing you... so by the time the meteor shower is cast, you will have given away some precious space to run to. Besides... those are precious little seconds to put a few more resonances on the boss...
From then on it's rinse and repeat, just mind that you always have skellies between the boss and your party (not necessarily attacking him). If at any time you feel like the phrases won't start soon enough to restock your supply of skellies, have one of your monks summon dichotomous spirits for some emergency taking. Whenever you do that, make sure you use mortification of the soul to gain wounds and (maybe) switch your shepherd's aura to replenish life.
Tip: Try to keep the boss slightly above the hurt threshold, when he goes from healthy to hurt he starts using a massive ground spell that does huge fire damage.
When you get 1000 resonances on the boss, trigger resonant touch, he's dead.
Do you mean this youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-e-Qj0sEJ4
Only takes 15 min to solo it
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I still think assassin needs help, hopefully it'll get some before the final round of patching.
The time and guile it takes to repeatedly set up invisibility and positioning - even assuming that you land the backstab every time - still puts you at a significant DPS disadvantage compared to any other dual-wielding rogue spamming cheap full attack abilities.
It would help if "assassinate* allowed players to regain guile on kills made from stealth or something; that or give assassins a significant sneak attack bonus over other classes (and maybe increase their malus to +20% damage received to make for a true glass canon). As it stands now, there's just not a compelling enough reason to choose an assassin over other subclasses unless you're playing an assassin/evoker.
Assassinate is an additive damage bonus, it means it is super strong in early 1~5 level of the game, but the effect drops dramatically when enemies have higher health and you have get higher damage bonus from gears and abilities(since the 150% bonus is calculated additively). To make things worse, the introduction of mega boss makes assassin almost useless against these boss with thousands of hp.
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I’m glad u made it
Any way I think neither a AR tank nor deflection tank can do enough damage to kill dordugan...Or maybe if I can find a way to place affliction steadily on dordugan, I can try a steel garrote/streetfighter build that based on life stealing. Currently I cannot find a way to put affliction on it so cannot trigger the life stealing from garrote. I tried griffin blade but the dazed on crit has a hidden fort check so it doesn’t work.
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What about a Paladin/Blood mage, I think with infinite spell resource it is possible to tank Dorudugan.
You were in my highest deflection post when I recommended Nalpazca/Blood mage as the closest. The problem is his cleave. You will need at least 240 Deflection for that to reliably miss you.
It's pretty easy to reach 230 deflection without 1.pet, 2. food, 3. rest bonus as screenshot below(also my character is a no MC so deep faith is not maxed), so I assume it's really easy to reach 240 Deflection. All u need to do is casting Arcane Veil -> Blood sacrifice -> Arcane Veil -> Blood sacrifice and so on.
Animancer's Enegry Blade is the best weapon for the build because it ignores AR.
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That's not what he meant. Dunehunter was here testing stuff extensively in the beta phase, finding and reporting bugs etc.
It's also not correct.
Ranged weapons are supposed to work as soon as you are near enough (2m). And usually they do.Arquebuses did have a problem where they wouldn't work with Backstab even if you were in the range of 2m. I thought that got fixed. Maybe not completely?
I’m using an old save, but my game version is 4.0, so not sure if this causes the issue, I will start a new game and see if this occurs again
Con affliction + massive single attack can maximize the effect of constitution affliction.
Looking for a Dragon slayer build
in Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Characters Builds, Strategies & the Unity Engine (Spoiler Warning!)
Posted · Edited by dunehunter
Yeah you are right it's 12.5% less health. But to be noted you need to keep Con Affliction on target when u dealing damage. Otherwise it's fake health reduction as we talked in that Con affliction thread. I wouldn't rely on that on big boss since it's usually hard to land Con Affliction on them (except FF I guess since u can spam forbidden fist), but it's a nice extra bonus