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Karkarov
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Also while thinking about it maybe this could be expanded to work like the "overwatch" mechanic of X-Com and maybe convert it a bit. Such as a mechanic where a ranged character can "engage" or "pin down" a target and then when that target attempts to take an action (movement, a spell, an attack) the ranged character attacks and if the attack or "effect" of the attack succeeds then the action is prevented. This being a bit more flexible would have to have more limitations though, such as only being able to "pin" one target, and not continuing to have additional actions where as a person in melee engagement still keeps their normal options as well.
Anyway random thoughts for range loving sissies I will stab my way through the game regardless.
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You can be inspired by anything, that doesn't mean you are copying it or using it's direct mechanics.
Ever heard about comparative method? Also, we have AOO's now
Yes the melee engagement mechanic was clearly "inspired" by attacks of opportunity. cwutididthar?
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Created an account to comment on this. While I think you guys are moving in the right direction, I think the system you use could be a bit more powerful while also being a bit more realistic.
When two people are fighting each other, they are both attacking conservatively. Neither is going to wildly swing their weapon because they will probably get stabbed. So actual melee combat is a careful balance between offense and defense.
In a situation where one combatant is unthreatened they are able to attack much more effectively, because they do not have to worry about being counterattacked. They don't need to worry about feinting or leaving themselves open. They just swing/thrust to kill.
I would translate that same phenomenon to the game. If a combatant is not being threatened by their target, then they would get a large bonus to their attack. This means that simply trying to walk around a fighter will get you your **** slapped, since you are not threatening them.
This mechanic would also allow for things like rogue backstabs (coming out of the shadows, they are not being threatened, so they get to do a powerful attack). Or flanking attacks - since most units could only threaten one enemy at a time, ganging up becomes very effective.
Just a thought.
Nice first post, totally concur a lot of good suggestions there that all make sense and can add some more tactical depth to the gameplay.
Also, I am going to have to make a combat mage who specializes in debuffs, and name him Barkley.
Because he jams and slams.
But Barkley must also shut up AND jam which makes it tough to be a caster! Also we would know who the villain is which is sort of a spoiler alert... it is that traitor Michael Jordan!
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.. it is pointless to discuss D&D mechanics
Exept that time Josh said they're taking inspiration from D&D, mostly 3th edition, with 4d and 2d bits "here and there" (or something like that); and we have the whole powers-based, encounter-based system mentioned a lot, as well as rest system. The fact that it could use different "rolls" or armor system does't mean it would't borrow other design features from D&D, or will end up feeling as a D&D game, because, surprise, IE games were all D&D.
(Exept one very obscure title english speaking folk probably never played).
Right inspiration. Just like D&D 4th edition took a very large amount of inspiration from MMORPG mechanics. In fact 4th edition has more in common with World of Warcraft that it does 2nd ed but I don't see anyone here talking about how druids should use rage when in bear form.
You can be inspired by anything, that doesn't mean you are copying it or using it's direct mechanics.
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I wonder if there's a correlation between the time since making the pledge and the chance of not coming through with the money.
I don't remember what I pledged and what I meant to get with the cash, something and something and postal fee?
Mr. Negative here, hoping the dropouts are in the single percentage digits.
This is a non-issue: Your credit card was charged at the time the kickstarter ended, or when you made the pledge via paypal. If anything, people wouldn't claim their rewards, saving Obsidian money, but this is unlikely because you will get an emailed reminder, and can use the survey to recall what rewards you wanted.
Trust me kickstarter is stupid persistent too. I had one bit of swag from a project I backed that was supposed to be mailed to me but I considered it trivial and unimportant. I got notified that I needed to submit info to claim the item a month before they were supposed to be shipped... Then kickstarter proceeded to automated mail me every 48 hours because I hadn't filled out the form yet. In the end I did the form not because I wanted the item, but because I simply got tired of seeing the email spam.
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You seem to forget one thing: realistic or not is NOT the main aspect taken into thought here, gameplay mechanics are! Josh said it a while ago that combat design in PE strives to be fun and interesting to play, not especially realistic.
Except he also forgot this mechanic is realistic. I can link you videos of dudes doing backflips in full plate, it is no where near as cumbersome or restricting as they see to think it is and any decent swordsman will have a host of moves they could use if you tried to simply "run past them". Meanwhile kiting is one of the gamiest and most unrealistic tactics to ever exist. In the real world your enemy can just not pursue you, use a shield, pull their own ranged weapon, hide behind cover, or plenty of other things. No one is just going to stupidly follow you from just outside their attack range for eternity. That is purely bad ai and terrible encounter design.
Also guns didn't replace swords for a very very long time. Let's also not forget a flanking maneuver that took place on a hill in Pennsylvania that was defeated by a bayonet charge. Melee weapons didn't become completely trivial until World War 1.
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Eh, not necessarily. There's always room for XxX_CaSteR_SuPrEmAcY420_XxX, even with melee mages. Remember that DAO's best fighter was a mage with the arcane warrior specialization and BG2's best fighter took mage levels.
I have to disagree. I played a tank specced fighter berserker who couldn't die because enemies couldn't hit me and when they did the damage was laughable. I didn't do a ton of damage myself but I just did not go down, period. After I took the arcane warrior levels mages couldn't hurt me at all anymore either. I even used that character to beat DAO on the hardest setting and got the no death achievement on that run without trying. Seriously, when I saw the pop up I did a double take.
Also I don't agree on BG2, I don't need to cast haste, that is what my party is for, and trust me a haste here and there was all I needed. These aren't single character games and my character doesn't come in a plastic wrapper with a twinky logo on it. I don't need my character to be the be all end all and do everything. PS: I also hate twink mages and my favorite hobby in D&D was pissing my DM off by making my character tooled to kill them and then dropping them like flies in one round of melee combat.
Wagrid: We're bringing up D&D because it's a common reference point for everybody here. Considering a lot of the developers worked on D&D games it's also probably a common reference point for them too.
Except Wagrid Obsidian has already said in plain black and white that this game is not based on D&D rules and will not be using any D&D mechanics, 1st, 2nd, d20 based, or any other version that exists. So ... yeah... it is pointless to discuss D&D mechanics in relation to Project Eternity, it has it's own rules and it's own mechanics system and may end up having almost nothing in common with D&D other than the whole fantasy genre thing.
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I may be wrong... but... can't you add non-Steam installed games on your system to your Steam library at any time? You know, to simply keep them together and such? Sure, you don't get all the Steam features. But, still... *shrug*
You have to remember the person you are responding to has no common sense and wouldn't know what logic was if it drop kicked them in the face. So odds are they are fully well aware that non steam games can be added to steam but they still don't see that as "good enough".
All I will say is this. If I buy a game on GoG you can be 100% sure that in two years I will not feel even the slightest desire to want to play it on Steam. If I wanted steam features I would have bought on steam from the get go. I actually turned off all of the steam api and achievement pop ups until about a month ago when doing so prevented me from taking screenshots in a few games I played that were (go figure) steam exclusive on pc.
Give me a choice between GoG and Steam I will always choose GoG.
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I really don't get why you guys keep bringing D&D into these discussions...
Anyway.
No, don't see a problem with Mages with Swords. We already have Mages in Armor confirmed. Thing is... if you want to be in the front of battle, wearing heavy armor, carving things up with a broadsword.... a Fighter is still going to be better at that than a Mage will be regardless of what gear the Mage is wearing. Simply put, there is no reason to be a Caster if what you want to play is a melee fighter that kills things with a sword, in fact, being a caster and doing that is likely gimping yourself.
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All this is good "in theory" but designing it so that it works has to be done from the ground up. This game wasn't designed that way I am fairly sure. That said even if this type of stuff was implemented you need to keep it simple. Like TeaMustFlow said power gaming your relationships not only sounds dumb on paper but it is dumb in game too. If a person leaves your party it should be because you keep making choices they don't like over a long term or because you don't get along period. Thing is... if they are really that different from your character 1: why did you recruit them to begin with? 2: why did they agree to be recruited in the first place?
Also toss the getting injured/knocked out stuff out the window. You are a party of professional adventurers. Risk of injury and death is pretty much par for the course, anyone not willing to face those things repeatedly over a long period of time would have never become an adventurer to begin with or would have retired from it very early on.
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But, then how will my party make money on the side by creating dreamcatchers and whittling flutes, then peddling them in our downtime? o_oI would prefer they actually have no crafting period, unless you think bringing a smith a pile of materials and paying him to craft some armor is "crafting".
By letting the bandits and random townsfolk do it then killing them and looting the crafted flute off their corpses.
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Why is this thread still going? The benefit of the Steam version is Steams various features. There is no reason to create a Steam version that doesn't use Steam as we already have two versions of the game that are DRM free and don't use Steam. As in Physical Discs which will be DRM free (other than needing the disc) and the GoG version.
So it is really really mind numbingly simple... If you don't want to run Steam when playing Project Eternity... wait for it... get a version that doesn't use Steam.
Asking the devs to make a Steam version that is Steam free is not only illogical, but it is also a total waste of the devs time. I can't even begin to count how many better things they have to be doing than making a Steam free Steam version.
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I would prefer if they went the Neverwinter Nights 2 route. Elder Scrolls once it introduced crafting became insanely unbalanced and the magic creation system was always broken either resulting in god spells that required touch to hit but one shot killed almost everything or spells that were basically useless. I would prefer they actually have no crafting period, unless you think bringing a smith a pile of materials and paying him to craft some armor is "crafting".
If you want to see a "skill" or "spell" system done a little better check out the recent dungeon hack Path of Exile. It has a very neat system that lets you pair effects to abilities so you can do things like turn a basic flaming arrow shot into a flaming arrow that explodes, or tracks, or a spread of five, or even turn it into a turrent that shoots the arrows for you. It is pretty neat.
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If you don't want any DRM just get it from GoG. If you want achievements get it from Steam and deal with the fact that Steam achievements.... require Steam.
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The "best" choice is up to the Player.
[intimidate] "You should get out of the way"
[Appeal] "You should get out of the way"
[Jedi-Mind Trick] "You should get out of the way"
Yeah it is that topic again...
We have been over this Osvir, there are better ways to do it such as...
Option 1: "I think you want to step to the side of the path."
Option 2: "You had better move out of my way ... now."
Option 3: "Please sir I am merely passing though, could you allow me to pass?"
I wonder which one was a Jedi Mind Trick?
@Karkarov:
Someone has posted a similar thread? I'm new here.
As to your argument, I understand it, for sure.
Eh it's okay, we have a thread around somewhere that literally went like 15+ pages on this one thing.
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This thread again???? Your idea is okay and all in theory but it seems a tab bit overly complex and I am not sure is a good idea. If conversations need be skill based at all then that is what it should be. If you have a "speech" of 10 then option X opens up, 20 you also have option Y, and so on. They should also likely be unmarked or at least not particularly advantageous over the non skill check options in most situations.
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As far as I know, they haven't said yet. I guess the default assumption is that it'll be more like the IE games and NWN (your first example) than fully open-world like TES or Fallout. But who knows, they might surprise us.
Pretty sure that is what it will be since that was in the sales pitch and all. Also I have no idea how they could do open world with the type of art design they are going for right now, it just wouldn't work well. This game and it's mechanics just would not benefit from an open world so I can't see them using one.
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He is right to an extent. Sitting your goal at 500k then saying at 600k you will add 3 new classes is ridiculous. It doesn't cost 100k to add 3 more classes, also the 3 classes may not even be needed to begin with ultimately facing the potential of being poorly balanced. Then something like "For another 100k we will add an entire new continent to our game and double play time!" on a game with a 500k goal seems ludicrous and unbelievable. If you needed 500k for your base game how do you expect me to believe you will double it's size for only 100k more?
I have seen plenty of things like both these examples in multiple kickstarters and personally I think stretch goals are bad in and of themselves. Devs should give a realistic money goal that is a real estimate of what they need not a "I think we can actually get this then hopefully we find real funding elsewhere" and then just say "If you give us more we will use that money to make the game better in a number of ways."
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If you've played around with "Legends of Grimrock", with the "Dungeon" tiles in the screenshot you could at the very least create a "Dungeon Maker". I'm already halfway through one right now
but "Photoshop" gets clunky in some ways, and I'm feeling "Is there some more effective way to do this, more effortlessly?", which is why I'm asking here.If you are working purely off a picture created by someone else using their own art resources and engine then.... no. Odds are most of the art resources in the game that are interior will be tile based and they will just have various doo dads they "paint" in to give the scene life. Exterior I anticipate most of the "floor" will be hand made.
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Well, if the potion breaks, perhaps you are given an advanced component from that cleaved Leather Armor?
Similarly, if the Magical Scroll gets destroyed, would that enchant the components? (If you can use it to upgrade your own Armor).
Breaking items could actually be a benefit in another way~
* Not breaking: You get 1 potion+1 component.
* Breaking: You get an 1 enchanted component.
* Scrolls could work in the same way.
* Could work with a "randomized" loot, or rather, "randomized break" which in turn makes "randomized loot"~
Even more needlessly complex. If something breaks into "components" (which at least makes sense) then it should just go straight to the crafting system and have nothing to do with random effects it might have on other things the dude was carrying that didn't break. While that kinda works I would still prefer rather just getting the already made potion though. This isn't an mmo, I don't want to have to invest hours into a crafting mechanic unless I choose to.
Also I prefer games that let me loot the item and then if I consider it more valuable as components I can then intentionally break it down. Like Kingdom's of Amalaur.
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Negative ghost rider. They will send emails when they need information to fulfill pledges. So far they haven't posted anything that would even begin to suggest an ETA.
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EDIT: Because really, how much of that vendor trash do you pick up in Baldur's Gate midway through the game versus how much do you ignore?
The vast majority of it. Heck you could have outfitted your own army with all the leather armor, short swords, and short bows I left on the near endless piles of Hobgoblin corpses. But that isn't the point. While I may pass on all that junk every so often there would be a valuable gem, or a healing potion, or some arrows maybe with special effects. Are they going to be immune to breaking? Because while I may never loot that short sword I definitely want that potion of minor healing or identify scroll. There is also no way to tell which generic hobgoblin corpse has these items on them until I go rummaging through their corpses.
So unless the rule is "Loot you would never loot anyway (save the very start of the game) can break but everything else is immune." then I won't really like it for this kind of game. Also it would make the rule pretty pointless to have because it just makes the game harder starting out and has no effect at all long term.
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What about magic and loot?
I burned a guy to ashes, do I still get to loot components or is it just dust?
Great question, and another reason why this is a bad idea to put in the game. When realism starts getting in the way of having fun and or simple gameplay like "I have my wizard cast a totally generic fireball, man I hope they don't ash!" then realism has gone too far. Not that I think Obsidian would ever implement this to begin with.
No to offense to the OP but it is just a bad idea in this type of game. Maybe if it were less RPG and more action based I could see it. That isn't what P:E is though.
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Pages and pages of ranting about a non issue like female sexuality and bikini armor.... And all I came into this thread for was to say "I would really like it if we could not include Jar Jar Binks or "insert moron who is annoying but lore friendly" in the game for pointless comedy relief."
Seriously, how many times do they have to say they are looking for realistic armor types and designing the game with a fantasy, but believable, style before people stop bringing this stuff up? Read the updates, play their other games, use common sense. When has Obsidian EVER made a game where women used different armor then men or looked like they were wearing a bikini when the item description said full plate? This isn't being made by elder scrolls modders and it isn't going to have "skimpy" armors, move on.
but "Photoshop" gets clunky in some ways, and I'm feeling "Is there some more effective way to do this, more effortlessly?", which is why I'm asking here.
Update #44: The Rules of (Melee) Engagement
in Pillars of Eternity: Announcements & News
Posted
Uhmmmm no. Tanking mechanics are dumb and gamey, this is coming from a guy who has exclusively played tanks in MMO's for almost 10 years. They are not using point and click movement ala Infinity Engine games, this type of set up only works when characters have physical size and take up space while occupying some form of "grid" that exists even if you can't see it. Also tanking is the backbone of the trinity and the trinity only exists to make an easy mechanic to balance that requires multiple players. This is a single player game, there is no reason to include mechanics that are designed for multiplayer environments. Even games that are not MMO's and do it well (like Xenoblade Chronicles) probably would have been better off without it to begin with.
So gonna have to respectfully disagree. I want tactics, not gamey mechanics.