Stun

Yeah, the functionality changes. They're great. Such as...your character is now voiced, so you're no longer forced to read the crap writing. Oh, and your Dog is now an activated ability, so you don't have to manage his tactics and gear anymore. And lets not forget: You have a default weapon now. It's grafted to your body, so never again will you be unarmed! Nor can you ever miss with your weapon....the aiming minigame has been removed to give us all a more 'functional experience'. And my personal favorite functionality change: They've decided to reuse the game's ONE CAVE. 74 times. This brilliant improvement to functionality insures smooth exploration. Never will you get lost, or disoriented, or anything like that. By act 3, that cave will feel just as comfortably familiar as your bathroom.

How is that ironic? Stun didn't say Greg Zeschuk was poor or anything. I didn't even say that I disliked him. To the complete contrary. I admire him. A lot. Any high level corporate executive who's resignation letter basically says: "I'm quitting my job so that I can pursue my greatest hobby: Getting drunk", deserves everyone's admiration.

Nope. No? ^this was your first post.

I'm no expert but I think this is an internet forum talking about vijeo gaems. Yet, your first post on this thread was an attempt to end such discussion.

Translation: Herp Derp.

Oh, you mean this: Ok, I'm not sure how people address points in Kanada, but here on earth, a one word denial is a f*cking dodge.

In 5 words: YES. But the "classic RPG fans" opinion does not come about in a vacuum. Bioware no longer thinks RPGs are all that relevant. It is their belief that the Genre itself cannot stand on its own and must be merged with other genres to survive, financially. The result of this banal, idiotic belief is that instead of making more games like BG2, they're making more RPG-shooter Hybrids like Mass effect 2. and more MMOish games like Dragon Age 2. Of course the Great Irony here is that right after Greg Zeschuk made that comment, Skyrim came out and sold 20 MILLION copies. Greg is now retired and out of the gaming business (HE'S become irrelevant!) And we "classic RPG fans" have turned to wildly successful Kickstarters to get our well deserved Classic RPG fixes. Things have turned out well, I'd say.

It's alright Bryy. There are worse insults one can hurl than to accuse someone of being a Bioware fan boy. Would have been nice, though, if you had addressed the points I made in my post, instead of just latching on to the "uncalm" nature of it. But I digress. I'm not in the business of telling people how they should debate and act. I'll leave that to the experts...like you.

Not sure how anyone can accuse you of thinking that... since your actual (stated) position is that consoles *ARE* PC's. And an entity cannot be superior to itself, can it. lol But I'm pretty sure AGX's point, which you're still dodging, is that PC's are far better platforms/delivery systems for RPGs.

No, just a bioware-can-do-no-wrong fanboy.

Well, lets not forget Fallout 1 & 2, which predate the BG games, don't use the infinity engine, and cemented BIS's name in the industry at a time when Bioware was trying to prove itself with Shattered Steel.

Good bet that it'll come out after the game does. Chris Avellone is writing the Wasteland Novella too. Has that come out yet?

Nice link! Useless trivia: In the banner at the top of that page.... The man on the right (the one in the fighting pose) is John L. Sullivan. Last world Bare knuckle Champion and the first Heavyweight Champion of the world under the Marquis of Queensbury rules. he officially compiled a record of 38-1-1 with 32 KOs, but since record keeping in the 1800s was mostly based on rumor, most people believe he probably won and lost hundreds more than that. His last successful bare knuckle title defense was against Jake Kilrain. The fight lasted 75 rounds.

What little we've seen has stunned me to giddiness. In an isometric, top-down 2d game like this, the art style is going to dictate the quality of the visuals. Not graphics stuff like particle effects or dynamic lighting. As it stands, the level of detail is quite good...for a game of any budget. When you can sit there and be awed by the friggin tile designs on a dungeon floor, or if you can see every hand-drawn blade of grass on a field then you know the Devs have taken the visual development seriously.

Agreed.

BG2 > BG1 > DA:O > NWN* > DA2** * main game only. NWN had an expansion (HoTU) who's experience I'd rank higher than DA:O, but lower than BG1. ** DA2 probably shouldn't be on this list as I don't view it as a game.

LOL since when has that ever stopped you? You routinely post an Opinion.... then claim it is a fact, and then you say GAME OVER, or some other childish pronouncement of finality. But enough of this. There are bottom line facts when it comes to Consoles, Computers and RPGs. And those facts are that Computers are far better suited to deliver the RPG experience than Consoles are. You don't have to look further than RPG developers themselves to get the confirmation on that one.

I completely agree. Good points, Volourn!

I know I'm going to regret trying to turn this into a serious discussion, but here goes. The fact that Bioware Developed the game and Bis/Interplay published it, does not mean those roles were strictly exclusive. They weren't. In Fact, one need only Play BG2 to flat out *see* Black Isle's actual design property/assets being directly used in it. BG2 features unaltered use of: 1)IWD's ( ie. Black Isle studio's) Goblins and Goblin Animations, Skeleton warriors and their animations, Mareliths, Fire Giants, Salamanders, as well as human animations, which were different from BG1's 2) IWD's (ie. Black Isle Studio's) Casting sound sets (male and female), which again, were different than BG1s. 3) IWD's (ie. Black Isle studio's) Weapons and weapon lore This is business. You don't just borrow assets from another company and not give them credit.

Come on Volo, you do make good points at times but this type of comment makes it very hard to believe that you are not trolling But instead of assuming what you mean can you give me examples of good CRPG that exist on consoles? Make that plenty of examples.

Volourn, they said BIS produced the BG games in conjunction with Bioware. Are you going to argue that Bioware had a hand in the publishing?

"Plenty of good CRPGs on consoles. Nice try though." No. R00fles

Really? So Adam Brenneke is the Lead Publisher of PoE?

We discussed the pitfalls of realism on the last thread, Bruce. But, like all of our arguments, they simply went in one ear and out the other with you. Shall we do a quick recap? 1) The Passage of Time in the game world - In my last BG2 run, I think I managed to complete the base game in ~74 game days. That's 2 1/2 months. Realistically, that's about the length of a 'summer fling'. And while it's totally conceivable that a 2 month long relationship can achieve the deep, profound bonding that you seek in video game romances, I don't think that qualifies as realistic. Typically, a 2 1/2 month relationship is nothing of the sort. And in a game like Planescape Torment, where the adventure lasts an average of about 14 days, the situation is even less realistic. 2) Fights/divorce/lawsuits/"I-Get-Half!" - Realistically, 50% of marriages end in divorce. So if I were you, I'd steer very clear of the notion of video game marriage-based romances outright, unless you're willing to accept mechanics designed to enforce realism - Like losing your stronghold because your wife hired a good attorney. Or getting stripped of your equipment and gold, and maybe even some of your mutual friends if he/she decides that your differences are irreconcilable. 3) Cheating - video game romances are almost exclusively monogamous. And the ones that aren't usually only see the PC being able to sleep around. Yeah, prepare to say goodbye to such emotional security. A game that seeks realism will see your LI being 25%-40% likely to cheat on you, regardless of your actions. If the developers are merciful, they might even allow you to discover his/her secret lover via a quest. If they're not, you'll simply wake up one morning and find your LI has disappeared from your party lineup with no explanation. 4) This didn't work out! - Only in fantasy are you guaranteed to be able to romance a romanceable NPC. In the real world, you're more likely to meet someone, have a couple of dates, discover that there's no "sparks" or "chemistry", and that will be the extent of the "Romance". And then you and legions of other promancers will complain about false advertising. 5) You're ugly - No video game I have ever played has bothered to hold players accountable for their character's appearance. DA:O has a fantastic face customization system. You can create a hideous warden who looks like an 85 year old cave man who hasn't bathed in years. Yet Romanceable NPCs will still call you handsome and jump into bed with you. This is UNREALISTIC. If we make romances realistic in games, then expect to be locked out of the romances if you create an ugly Character. 6)Bros before Ho's - In current video game romances, your LI will not get jealous if you spend time with your other, non-romanceable party members. In a Realistic Romance though, things won't be so fantastically utopian. Expect enough frequent "what about us!" conversations to pretty much suck all the fun out of traveling with a party. She will want "alone time" with you, despite the fact that the game will be balanced for party play. 7)You're a lousy lover - See #2, #3, #4. In video games, Sex with your LI is a great "reward" that only strengthens the relationship. In the real world though, there are no such guarantees. In fact, Sex can end the relationship outright, and in the spirit of realism, there should be a chance of exactly that happening right after the Fade-to-Black. Bioware sorta tried this with the Viconia romance in BG2, only to drop the ball and squander the whole opportunity.

Like I said, we go into the technical. And the semantics. Your link also says this: Founding[edit] Created in 1996 by Feargus Urquhart, the studio was named Black Isle after Urquhart's homeland. The studio, although credited for the creation of Fallout was, in fact, not responsible for the game, but rather a key portion of the original studio came from the team that made Fallout. When developing Fallout 2, the studio's first official game, several employees left Interplay to form Troika Games after they "were unable to come to an agreement with Interplay as to how [their] next team should be structured."[6] The remaining team would go on to release such critically acclaimed games as Fallout 2, Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale and produce the critically acclaimed Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn in conjunction with BioWare. In addition to publishing, they shared production of the BG games with Bioware.