Stun
-
Posts
2849 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
11
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Blogs
Posts posted by Stun
-
-
No, it's entirely possible for Planescape: Torment to stand as good or great based entirely on its story.it is entirely possible for a game to stand as "good" or even "great" based *entirely* on the strength of it's story.
Because Planescape: Torment is unique. PS:T is the ONE super-freakish exception to the rule because it managed to have a story that transcended gaming itself (it can compete with classic literature) No other RPG can (or ever has) succeeded on story alone.
-
1
-
-
We were warned about this, but we didn't connect the dots.
Remember the language in update 62?
From update 62:
Translation: Tim rushed through this as fast as he could. He "went on a tear" as it were. Now, call me a naïve idealist, but when you set out to create a rich, deep, meaningful labor of love, you don't "go on a tear".... as if you're in a hurry to get a term paper finished because it's due in an hourStronghold
Tim went on a tear and got most of the backend systems for the player stronghold in place.
But that's exactly how the stronghold Feels, doesn't it. -- like it was slapped together and rushed out the door.
-
3
-
-
Pardon my French, but... bull-sh*t.but the writing is quantifiably better from the perspective of traditional literary technique.
Anyone can spew forth a giant script of perfectly crafted prose, complete with Victorian era influences (or whatever's your favorite) dripping with utterly 'mature' subject matter. But that doesn't, on its own, make for a good story. And in a video game, adhering to traditional literary technique can result in tiresome cliché.
In PoE's case, You play the role of the Speshul, chosen one. If it wasn't for the fact that cliché, been-there-done-that, plotlines don't bother me, I'd have condemned PoE's story about a week ago. But, as it happens, I see PoE's story as "good enough". And as a sidenote, I rank it higher than D:OS's and DA:I's.
-
You're not saying anything here. Water is wet. So? I don't love The BG and IWD games because of their stories. (although, if I wasn't beginning to tire of this discussion, I would debate you on some specifics. Irenicus, for example, is an infinitely better written villain than...PoE's villain, who's name I've already forgotten.)
-
PS:T's gameplay was terrible lol. But generally speaking, PS:T is the exception to most rules whenever we have one of these rating-discussions. Its gameplay doesn't matter. It gets a pass because of the sheer, unmatched strength of its story alone. It simply can't be used as an argument here for anything. More to the point: PS:T's story isn't "good". PS:T's story is the best. It transcends its medium....you think P:T's gameplay was good?
The three games we're discussing on this thread, though, do not produce this phenomenon, and therefore must be judged on more than just their stories.
-
It's not. We're comparing 3 games with wildly varying strengths and weaknesses, and who's to say which strength and weakness will matter most to a reviewer?When everything else is good to great in each game in question
DA:I
DA:I's combat and UI is an insufferable chore, but its lore is pretty darn good and has the unfair advantage of having been slowly built up over the course of 3 games. Its stronghold is really *really* fleshed out. Its game world is dull, its quests are MMO garbage, and its loot itemization is soulless. I can agree with you that it doesn't deserve to be rated higher than PoE.
Divinity Original Sin
Its combat is so fun, deep and multi-dimensional that I can totally understand someone giving the entire game a 9 because of it alone. But it also does a fairly decent job with its puzzles. And it's an overall good looking game. Its story is poorly written, its lore is... wait... does D:OS even have lore? Its Co-op mechanics are *great*. And even without playing the game co-op, the party control is rather good, and unique. You can send half your party out to do one thing, and the other half to do another thing. The crafting mechanic in D:OS is better than PoE's. D:OS's Pocket Plane is better than PoE's stronghold. And the environment interaction.... there's nothing in either game to even compare here. As a Gamer, I *wish* I could use the environment to make my spells do special sh*t in PoE and DA:I (and a bunch of other games I've played), but I can't. The extra dimension isn't there in those games.
PoE
The lore...yeah, what about it? It may be good, but lore can't stand on its own. It needs a good delivery system or people won't emmerse themselves in it. As it happens, PoE dumps its lore on you way WAY too quickly and in the most obnoxiously hamfisted manner imaginable. Obsidian did not heed the old advice of: "show me don't tell me". And PoE's Plot? Yes. better than the other two games. PoE's combat? Give me a Break. It's NOT good. It's Ok. It's tactical only if you want it to be. But lets not pretend you can't just mindlessly auto-attack your way to victory in about 90% of the encounters in the game. because you TOTALLY CAN. PoE's combat suffers from Obsidian-itis. I've never played an Obsidian game with good combat. And PoE doesn't break that mold in the slighest. Character Building? PoE is the Best of the 3. There's no denying that. 11 classes, 6 attributes, a talent system that allows for true diversity.... the other two games don't come close. The stronghold? yeah, I've said enough about that already. The games Visuals: I'm Bias. in my mind, the Infinity engine style of hand painted 2d environments is how all games should be done. And of the three, only PoE does it that way. So PoE wins out. Pacing? Well, bugged or not, it has a problem. A problem that the other two games don't have. You can hit the cap halfway through the game, thus reducing your motivation to play on. BG1 lost points for this, and PoE does too.
So what's the end result? The end result is this: ???
Each game has just enough strengths and weaknesses to justify any reviewer who chooses to rate one of them a point higher than another or vice versa.
-
1
-
-
No it's not Obvious?Better story, better world, better lore...it should be obvious which game is the better RPG.
If we only rated RPGs on story, lore and world, maybe you'd have a point. But last I checked, Gameplay matters in a game too. And I imagine someone from Gamespot who experienced Divinity Original Sin's combat and environment interaction (for example) would probably argue that on those points alone we suddenly go from Obvious, to not-so-obvious at all.
Also, I've yet to meet anyone who's played Both DA:I and PoE and came to the conclusion that PoE did its stronghold better (for example again)
Personally, I think DA:I is damned for its 100 hours of collection quest tedium and its carpel tunnel syndrome-inducing PC controls... Divinity Original Sin, on the other hand, has enough endearing qualities to compete on equal footing with PoE, and perhaps even beat it out.
-
1
-
-
It's actually quite a good read, as far as gamespot reviews go. Here's a link to it, btw, since no one else bothered to post it:Reading the review, a lot of it rang true to me.
http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/pillars-of-eternity-review/1900-6416091/
If anything, he was excessively generous, praising the stronghold (for example), when he could have very easily, (and legitimately) bashed the stronghold as the sticks-out-like-a-sore-thumb, facebook-game-wannabe that it is. And he took the Double click bug in stride, not letting it affect his review of the game itself, which is more than we can say for some of the fans, who spammed Metacritic with 0's because of it.
-
2
-
-
You're not this dense. You can't be.Give it a rest already. This entire argument may be the biggest straw man we've ever seen burned down on this forum. You and the OP are operating under an absurd, context-less assumption that in PoE, the choice to kill is as equally valid as the choice to not kill. But this isn't true at all. The game is designed in a way where avoiding combat is not only much much MUCH harder to do mechanically, but FAR FAR less rewarding.
So what you're saying is that people aren't skipping combat in Pillars of Eternity. Thank you very much for agreeing with us. Was that so hard?
Ok, lets take this nice and slow. From the beginning. OK, Hassat Hunter....the OP, cited steam numbers that indicate that everyone is engaging in combat. He then decided to use this to try and shoot down the Pro-kill XP crowd, in effect saying:
"Hey Pro-Kill XP crowd! Didn't you guys claim that if they take Combat XP rewards away, then people will just stop engaging in combat?? Well it didn't happen that way!" And "here are the numbers!" And "I told you so!!"
But what did we actually learn after about 3 minutes of pondering his silly argument? Lets see:
1) Um... that there IS XP for killing stuff in this game, so why would the pro-XP crowd avoid killing stuff in this game?
2) The choice to engage in combat or not engage in combat really isn't given to us in about 90% of the friggin game. So what choice did we have BUT to engage in combat 90% of the time?
3) They did not give us mechanics or rewards suitable for alternate playstyles (like this game's pathetic excuse for stealth), so why would we use choose to spam those terrible mechanics when we could just blast enemies away and be done with matters? it's quicker.
4) They tied the vast majority of the plot, the subplots, the exploration and the quests to combat. I suppose we could choose to skip 90% of the game, but that was NOT part of either side's argument back when the XP threads were popping up here. No one said, for example, that they simply won't play the game if there was no combat XP.
-
TV is not the sole measurement for a large marketing campaign.
I don't recall seeing advertisements for Baldur's Gate 2 on tv.Did the game have a huge marketing campaign? Check. (-1)
-
Give it a rest already. This entire argument may be the biggest straw man we've ever seen burned down on this forum. You and the OP are operating under an absurd, context-less assumption that in PoE, the choice to kill is as equally valid as the choice to not kill. But this isn't true at all. The game is designed in a way where avoiding combat is not only much much MUCH harder to do mechanically, but FAR FAR less rewarding.
TL;DR: A pacifist run would be much more attractive: 1) If stealth was more fun and viable; 2) if half the game's quests and exploration actually supported pacifism. But since neither is the case, this entire thread is a moronic Hassat Hunter Troll attempt.
-
Its max score would be 8. <gag>Meaning that it's max score would be a 9 (-1 for being a sequel to a major franchise).
I know I'm going to regret giving even a casual thought to such gibberish. But lets apply BG2 to your list again.
Was the game a sequel to a major franchise? Check. (-1)
Did the game have a huge marketing campaign? Check. (-1)
So 8 out of 10. Whatever. 8 out of 10 is still a Travesty for a masterpiece like BG2, which is the standard upon which ALL RPGs are judged.
-
I would have to disagree with that last part. Dragon Age 2 takes that crown, since it's the best game to ever carry the Bioware name.Mass Effect 3 was a brilliant ending to the best videogame trilogy that ever saw the light of day.
-
Say what? If we applied that Criteria to Baldur's Gate 2, it'd get, at best.... a 7.Here's how to find the actual score for a game:
Was the game a sequel to a major franchise? Subtract 1 point from the reviewer score.
Did the game have a huge marketing campaign? Subtract 1 point from the reviewer score.
Was the game the final installment of a major series (eg mass effect 3)? Subtract 1 point from the reviewer score.
Was the game 'artsy' at the expense of gameplay? Subtract 1 point from the reviewer score.
Was the game a niche genre, or made by an unknown company? Add 1 point to the reviewer score.
Now you have a more accurate score for the game.
Crazy. And False.
-
Incidently, if combat can be so easily avoided, then how come No one's been able to get the triple crown achievement?
-
Correct. It is not possible... unless you:I don't know where your figures came from but lets assume they are correct. Is it possible to avoid killing less than 175 over the course of the game? My impression is that most fights are unavoidable. Correct?
1) Skip all the side content
2) really *really* get the stealth game going on*
*I'm one of the people the OP is attempting to take a swipe at. So here I am, responding. Hey Hassat Hunter: I would have totally embraced a pacifist run of this game, if it wasn't for the fact that 1) the stealth mechanic design is even more banal than the EXP distribution system. 2) the game does not give you the option to talk your way out of its hundreds of Drake, Ooze, Troll, Spore, Lurker, feral druid, lion, beetle, shade, fampyre encounters (like you fools argued it would)
-
...and for those who do.Mind actually making sense of that for those of us who don't know what you're talking about?
-
Yep, and that doesn't surprise me. PoE IS the best game Obsidian's ever made. It deserves a better score than FO:NV, Mask of the Betrayer, Stick of Truth, etc.It's still rocking a 90 on metacritic, which as far as I'm aware is the bench people use for a very good game (hell for FO:NV Bethesda only wanted 85 to provide Obsidian Royalties, so even if it dips below it's now a bad thing).
-
Oh I wouldn't say that. Hiberheim was amazing. The Phantam forest had spikes of brilliance. The Luculla forest has more to do in it than Cyseal.The game fell off a cliff after Cyseal.
Also, unlike a lot of people, my mind can't get itself to separate Cyseal from the rest of the game, since there's nothing stopping the player from making it.... an ever-present part of a playthrough? That is to say, there's no law that says: "you must complete Cyseal before moving on!". In fact, In my last play-through, I only did about half of the quests/storyline in the city before deciding to see what happens if I Forget about the whole Braccus Rex thing for a while and go kill some Orcs and Immaculates in Luculla. It was a Blast. Combat was brutal, for a while, but that's how I like it.
PS: "repetitive" becomes a positive term when what is being repeated is pure awesomeness. Combat in D:OS is Great with a capital G. I don't mind when a game repeatedly floods me with the same Great over and over again.
-
^yeah, that. From the standpoint of my personal tastes, Once you get to 10th level, the advancement slow down should begin. The amount of experience needed to get to 11th level should be something significantly more than it currently is. Like....close to the total amount that was needed to get up to Level 10 in the first place.The problem isn't that there's too much XP from X, the problem is that it takes too little XP to level. And at this point it would be much easier for Obsidian to change the latter than the former.
-
The real question you should be asking is: Why was DA2 reviewed in the first place? Because it's not a game. It's a con job that was mis-marketed as a game. A virus. A DDoS attack against RPG fans and the genre as a whole.What I don't get is how Dragon Age 2 can receive exactly the same score?
-
1
-
-
Well, I can't read his mind and say exactly what he means by that. But from playing both games I can say that these two statements are flat out true.How can he say D:OS is a 'glimpse of the future' but PoE is treading the fine line between clone and homage?
PoE DOES tread that fine line between clone and homage. That's one of its endearing qualities. I didn't back its kickstarter in the hopes of getting something cutting edge and "innovative". Did you? I backed it in the hopes that it would deliver the exact opposite - Something that pays homage to the IE classics, and faithfully reproduces that elusive "feel" that was exclusive to those games. A clone with a different rule set and setting is totally what we did get.
As for D:OS being 'a glimpse of the future'....IDK. Considering how well it does its turn-base combat and how fundamentally vital to gameplay it makes its environment interaction, and its semi-classless hybrid system, I'd say that D:OS might indeed be a glimpse of the future.... of turn based RPGs, and how RPGs will do their class systems going forward. Here's hoping.
But whatever. We're dealing with two "good guys" here, not Good vs. Bad. As Fantasy RPG fans, we should be applauding the success of Both games, since they're so much better than anything the Big Publishers have been offering us lately.
-
3
-
-
You took the words right out of my mouth for the first time ever, Bruce!Guys seriously, 8/10 is an excellent score. Lets not see it in a negative light or a bad reflection on Gamespot who I personally like
Yes. Lets stay focused on the big picture here. Gamespot is a member of the gaming mainstream. That they even spent screen space reviewing PoE in the first place is noteworthy. The fact that they gave it something as high as an 8/10 is a flat out victory for Obsidian.
Sidenote: what's with the D:OS hate? It's one of the best games I've played this decade. It does quite a few things better than PoE (Combat being one of them). Overall I rank the two games about even on a 10 scale.
-
But then, that wouldn't be level scaling, would it? Unless it's something like this:Let's take BG1 as an example.
Sarevok keeps sending hired killers after you. He and his forces also have lots and lots of hired mercenaries as underlings and bodyguards. Now, shouldn't your notoriety, your achievements not affect how much resources Sarevok would allocate to deal with you? Of course it should. Anything else would be stupid on his part.
Letter from Sarevok:
Dear Tarnesh,
Our reconnaissance reports on the field indicate that Gorion's ward and his party have just achieved level 5. As you know, this presents a logistical problem. You're only 3rd level. Therefore, I require that you find a way to scale yourself up to 6th level to present a challenge.
PS: And please do not carry on your person any gear suitable for a level 6 character, lest it fall into the party's hands when they kill you, thus making this whole exercise moot!
Sincerely,
Sarevok
-
1
-
The Gamespot review
in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)
Posted · Edited by Stun